I would rather stand on scriptures than traditions of men!
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Western vs. Eastern Soteriology
- Thread starter ntchristian
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Show me that verse. Because the scripture says he speaks through his Christians. Every Christian is an epistle of Christ.
2 Corinthians 3
2You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Then you would become a Catholic.
God spoke scripture. It is the word of God.
Do you disagree?
Just not Roman Catholic or Orthodox Catholic.
We can top that. Call it the body of Christ. Never-mind dictated, God authored, God Breathed.
That fine. We Catholics officially go by neither. Its just Catholic.
Brothers we not biting Sola Scriptura precisely because it is never taught in scripture or by the Church.
The Church can make the call for it, it has the authority.given by Jesus:
Matthew 18
18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Jesus Christ gave specific instructions what to do if someone steps out of line including stepping out of line with teaching.
Matthew 18
15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TW
R THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
If scripture was the Final Authority we would have been stuck a Judaisers requiring circumcision. There was zero scripture to back up against it, it was overruled by the authority of the Church.
Acts 15
1Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. 3Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren. 4When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
God gave direct command and vision to Peter to overturn scripture.
If Jesus, The Apostles and the Church went by Sola Scriptura we would be forced to be circumcized and not even allowed to eat with Gentiles.
The Church can make the call for it, it has the authority.given by Jesus:
Matthew 18
18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Jesus Christ gave specific instructions what to do if someone steps out of line including stepping out of line with teaching.
Matthew 18
15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TW
R THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.If scripture was the Final Authority we would have been stuck a Judaisers requiring circumcision. There was zero scripture to back up against it, it was overruled by the authority of the Church.
Acts 15
1Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. 3Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren. 4When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
God gave direct command and vision to Peter to overturn scripture.
If Jesus, The Apostles and the Church went by Sola Scriptura we would be forced to be circumcized and not even allowed to eat with Gentiles.
Not everything that happens is God's will--some events He allows. The Greeks were pagans and some of their superstions were from Hinduism.
So? Two Greek words translated the same in English in Protestantism. The RCC believes in the transubstantiation, not us. We think that you went overboard on literalism straight into absurdity.
The OP in the listing of total depravity mischaracterized Protestant opinion and taking no notice of numerous compliants abandoned the issue by never acknowledging the criticisms or attempting to apologize for the error. That's liberalism for you, huh? What we have here is liberal theology attacking a strawman that the liberals built in the first place.
Should Consider God Father in his house. Or Teacher in a Classroom.
Also there is different perspectives looking at original sin.
#1 we are not born in heaven. So if you never did anything, are not accountable why not born in heaven with perfect conditions?
I think one point is we should hold ourselves responsible/accountable for every soul and one certainly would without even the use of laws if you love everyone as God does. If your a LOVING parent what good is it if I spoil you with all you can want and your own child is tortured before you?
We have to step away from a selfish perspective of Salvation. I want my brother with his parent(GOD).
Don't want to see anyone suffering, I want them to be happy.
So in a way original sin preemptively teaches something which anyone Christlike would carry in their soul even if no rule existed, its still a rule for them.
Think about the person you care for most, there is no rule saying I can blame you for something they do , but some folks might take that deal for their sake. I don't doubt people here would die to save a loved one.
Show scripture where the body of Christ is inspired and always speaks God's word. Let's observe the passage that declares every person in the body of Christ is speaking as though God is speaking.
I was calling the scriptures the body of Christ.
Our adequacy is God given we service, minister the new covenant. 2 Corinthians 3
We are given the ministry of reconciliation, We are ambassadors of Christ and GOD makes his appeal THRU us. 2 Corinthians 5
Christ is one flesh with his Church. Ephesians 5
The people as the body of Christ receive from one spirit. 1 Corinthians 12
We are all given by that same spirit one common gift above all gifts, the most excellent way. 1 Corinthians 12- 1 Corinthians 13.
1 John 4 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
Its like swearing up and down only the MIRROR is right. Scripture points at a Christian rather then scripture.
Our sense of reliability says steel is stronger than paper. If you want to beat a Giant, you may think we need a big tank with a big gun. God can choose a child to defeat a Giant. The Christian is God breathed as scripture is. John 20:22.
Jesus could have wrote us a book up to our standard of reliability and communication. He chose his own method, in its own language, with its own grammar. He chose People to be his paper with bread and wine to be his ink.
Jesus' Communion is the highest paperless "scripture" and can teach a person more than all the scriptures can ever hope.
ntchristian
Active Member
I appreciate all the good responses. I do wish, though, that we could discuss things without attacking each other.
Where do you find the scriptures called the body of Christ?
Please quote the scripture so we can observe what it says.
Nope, a Baptist, as we hold to scriptures alone, not Bible and church traditions!
ntchristian
Active Member
It certainly doesn't say that Jesus' death "paid the penalty" for our sins. It does say that Jesus came to give His life as a ransom for many. The word "redeem" is also used, which means "to buy back". That's Biblical. Penal substitution is not.
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