Calvinists would not be saying in this that God is the direct cause of all things though....
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Westminster Confession Of Faith And The Fall Of Man
- Thread starter AndyMartin
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When you type a post and display it on here, it's fair game for everybody.no one asked you to view/comment!
When John the Baptist baptized Jesus, the KJV said John suffered Jesus and baptized Him. By using Andy's logic, John the Baptist throttled Him. Suffer in 17th century English meant allowed. Word meanings change.
It's very clear to me that Andy has no intention to be honest. Instead he is playing a game that I have seen many atheist play. They troll and make a ludicrous statement to gain a response and then play a parlor game of tag then run away. Andy is not worth having a conversation. He is at his heart a very dishonest person.
Hey, bud. They're not foolish exchanges. You're reached the end of your intellectual ability to posit a logical argument. In other words, you've been out debated based on the merits of your argument. Worst of all, you know it, so now you want to dictate terms.
Or to "order" is to "arrange"
It has already been given. The word means "willing." He was willing to allow them to do as they wanted rather than what He wanted.
Now, let's move on. The WCF is meaningless to me. But you have certainly used it to avoid answering any of my questions. Here they are again. Don't hide behind a change of subject. Just answer the questions honestly.
1. So what part of man, body, soul, or spirit, do you think was not affected by the fall and is holy enough to approach God on its own merits?
2. What condition of perfect holiness did you meet that caused God to elect you to heaven that your neighbor, who is obviously inferior to you, does not meet?
3. If the atonement is applied to everybody without distinction then their sins are forgiven and they go to heaven. If not, how does a sinless person end up in hell?
4. If the Grace of God is powerless to achieve that which He intended it to achieve does that make God impotent? Unable to achieve His own goals?
Tozer's point, Arminian though he was, is the forgotten fulcrum on which the rest of our salvation rests.
God saves the inside, not the outside. That is what Paul meant when he said in Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
That is, take that which God has placed within you and externalize it. As you grow in Grace and "work out" your salvation the outer man will begin to take on the Family characteristics of the new, inner man. So all the world can see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
God saves the inside, not the outside. That is what Paul meant when he said in Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
That is, take that which God has placed within you and externalize it. As you grow in Grace and "work out" your salvation the outer man will begin to take on the Family characteristics of the new, inner man. So all the world can see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
I'll be shocked if he returns. We exposed his theological weaknesses so he left, IMO. He'll go somewhere else and peddle his ideologies.
Isaiah 53:10. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief.'
Matthew 11:25-26. "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your eyes."
I don't have a KJV Bible in front of me but I believe that instead of 'it seemed good in Your eyes,' the KJV has, 'it was Your good pleasure.' Perhaps that will help with the understanding of these words.
Matthew 11:25-26. "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your eyes."
I don't have a KJV Bible in front of me but I believe that instead of 'it seemed good in Your eyes,' the KJV has, 'it was Your good pleasure.' Perhaps that will help with the understanding of these words.
Folks, here we have a whole thread where the Calvinists all agree, it pleased God to permit Adam to sin. Glory hallelujah. Only exhaustive determinists would say God ordained (predestined) Adam to sin. Good thing none of that false theology is being pushed here!!
God is sovereign, He either causes or permits whatsoever comes to pass. Great day in the morning.
Too bad the Westminster Confession says God ordains whatsoever comes to pass....
God is sovereign, He either causes or permits whatsoever comes to pass. Great day in the morning.
Too bad the Westminster Confession says God ordains whatsoever comes to pass....
It means the same thing, they were expressing it in the terms of their time!Folks, here we have a whole thread where the Calvinists all agree, it pleased God to permit Adam to sin. Glory hallelujah. Only exhaustive determinists would say God ordained (predestined) Adam to sin. Good thing none of that false theology is being pushed here!!
God is sovereign, He either causes or permits whatsoever comes to pass. Great day in the morning.
Too bad the Westminster Confession says God ordains whatsoever comes to pass....
NOW of we can only get the non cals to agree on their theology here....
Folks, note that the advocates of false theology love to attack posters and dodge positions. Ask yourselves why do they constantly use logical fallacies to defend their views. Hint - they are unbiblical
Folks, here we have a whole thread where the Calvinists all agree, it pleased God to permit Adam to sin. Glory hallelujah. Only exhaustive determinists would say God ordained (predestined) Adam to sin. Good thing none of that false theology is being pushed here!!
God is sovereign, He either causes or permits whatsoever comes to pass. Great day in the morning.
Too bad the Westminster Confession says God ordains whatsoever comes to pass....
Folks, here we have a whole thread where the Calvinists all agree, it pleased God to permit Adam to sin. Glory hallelujah. Only exhaustive determinists would say God ordained (predestined) Adam to sin. Good thing none of that false theology is being pushed here!!
God is sovereign, He either causes or permits whatsoever comes to pass. Great day in the morning.
Too bad the Westminster Confession says God ordains whatsoever comes to pass....
Mixture V ranks
New Member
This is not what Genesis says at all. It does say that the Lord God gave Man, His creation, complete freedom of choice. Genesis does say that the Lord God did place the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the Garden of Eden, but He forbade Adam and Eve to even touch it. This was because the Lord God gave Adam and Eve complete freedom of choice. He did not want Man's love of Him coming back as a matter of duty, but, rather, as a matter of free will. The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil represented Satan set there for Adam and Eve to partake of it or leave it alone as God had commanded them.
We know that Lucifer, who was considered the most beautiful of the Lord's created beings and who stood in the Lord's presence, was considered first among those angels who are sometimes referred to as the Seven Presence Angels, of which Michael and Gabriel are a part. However, it was Lucifer who became filled with pride of his own importance. Isaiah 14:12-14 is very important here, since Isaiah tells of the so-called 'Five Great "I wills"' with which Lucifer actually challenges the Lord. Chapter 14 gives more details, but these verses are the key. Lucifer says he will make himself like the Lord and sit high above Him. Apparently, Lucifer was permitted to sit atop Mt. Megiddo which satisfied him. While Lucifer was given authority over the earth as its prince, his name was changed to Satan, though his judgment will come at the end. Many scholars hold to the view that the Lake of Fire was created for Satan and his angels.
It was Satan who entered the serpent and beguiled Eve who, then, beguiled Adam. It was this act of disobedience, freely chosen, which caused the downfall of Adam and Eve. They chose to worship Satan by disobeying the Lord. However, at the time of Satan's rebellion, the Trinity evidently took counsel with itself and it was Christ who volunteered to become the Lamb of God for the necessary sacrifice. This was done in case Satan managed to get into the created order. . . .which he did in the Garden of Eden. This is why the Lord God made the promise to Adam about the coming of Christ. We find this documented again in the Epistle to the Hebrews [written either by Peter with Paul looking over his shoulder or by Paul with Peter looking over his shoulder; many scholars seem to think it was Peter looking over Paul's shoulder]. We have this stated concisely in Hebrews 6:19-20 where it is stated that Christ is the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. It was Christ who agreed to become the Lamb of God for the sake of Man. We need only to place our complete faith and trust in Him.
Has your God always been this weak? You seem to imagine God was taken by surprise.
Calv1
Active Member
What can I add? Exactly
Calv1
Active Member
This is one of those guys who don't know either Arminian or Reformed Theology, and just throws garbage in the air, he doesn't make any sense, it's clear he's never studied Reformed theology, and half the time he sounds Reformed, because he doesn't know what he's talking about, isn't that what they call a "Troll", I'm serious never knew what that word meant, it's someone like this guy right? Just posting junk, having no clue what he's writing, thinking he's "Getting us" while we laugh at his posts. America is biblically illiterate, I mean a 6th grader in the 1800's knew more than this guy, oh well what would life be without aggravating ignorant people?
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