No, its the basis of why God can freely justify me, but I still must have faith in jesus for it to be effective/applied to me!
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What about Rom 10:9-10 ?
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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No, its the basis of why God can freely justify me, but I still must have faith in jesus for it to be effective/applied to me!
savedbymercy
New Member
You base your salvation on your works, your flesh doing something !
the Lord enables me to do that, as He has provided me the faith needed to do that , still need to place faith in christ!
savedbymercy
New Member
A work !
A work is any deed we do, whether it be physical or mental. In other words, a lust in the mind is just as much a deed of the flesh or work of the flesh as physical fornication, its a mental deed ! Gal 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
This word works, is the same word used in Eph 2:9 where it reads Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
This is important because things we do with our mind are considered works. Lasciviousness is lust, which we do with the mind or heart , and its a work !
So likewise, faith and or believing is done with the mind and or heart and so its also a work !
So those of you who claim to be saved from your sins because you believed in your heart,Rom 10:9-10 then you are claiming salvation by your works; and since many believe that regeneration comes after faith or believing, then you are claiming salvation by the work of the flesh , your human faith from the flesh of you !
A work is any deed we do, whether it be physical or mental. In other words, a lust in the mind is just as much a deed of the flesh or work of the flesh as physical fornication, its a mental deed ! Gal 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
This word works, is the same word used in Eph 2:9 where it reads Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
This is important because things we do with our mind are considered works. Lasciviousness is lust, which we do with the mind or heart , and its a work !
So likewise, faith and or believing is done with the mind and or heart and so its also a work !
So those of you who claim to be saved from your sins because you believed in your heart,Rom 10:9-10 then you are claiming salvation by your works; and since many believe that regeneration comes after faith or believing, then you are claiming salvation by the work of the flesh , your human faith from the flesh of you !
You have NEVER been able to make a expository or exegetical response to Romans 4:1-6 where "works" are placed in direct contrast to "believeth" instead of including it!
You have NEVER been able to make a expository or exegetical based response to John 6:64-65 where it is explicitly stated that the ability to believe is something "given" unto the person that comes to Christ.
You have NEVER been able to make a expository or exegetical based response to Ephesians 2:5,8-10 were "through faith" is grammatically inseparable with the act of being quickened and explicitly denied that it is "not of yourselves....not of works."
You have NEVER been able to prove that "faithfulness" is snyonmous with justifying "faith."
In short, you are spouting empty definant hot air based upon nothing but ignorance of the scriptures and false doctrine.
savedbymercy
New Member
Believing is a work, a deed , an act that man performs with his mind
The word for work that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of scripture to use is the greek word ergon which means:
) business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
The mind is defined as:
the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Now, I have been able to show scripturally that believing is a work !
Nothing can change that !
Now , everyone claiming to get saved BECAUSE they believed, then they are claiming Salvation by their works ! The Bible condemns that !
saved BY THE CROSS, faith is the means God uses to apply that Grace towards us!
savedbymercy
New Member
Coming to Christ is synomonous to believing on Him Jn 6:35
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Now coming, as is believing is an activity, a performance of man, they both are present tense verbs, denoting someone doing something !
The word cometh is the greek word erchomai
to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
The mode of motion !
The performance or doing is liken to coming from one place to another.
So its an work, so again if anyone claims they are saved from the penalty of their sins BECAUSE they come to Christ, then they are claiming Salvation from sins penalty for themselves by their activity, their doing, their work, their deed !
Again a work is described by the biblical word for work ergon :
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done or doing: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Now coming, as is believing is an activity, a performance of man, they both are present tense verbs, denoting someone doing something !
The word cometh is the greek word erchomai
to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
The mode of motion !
The performance or doing is liken to coming from one place to another.
So its an work, so again if anyone claims they are saved from the penalty of their sins BECAUSE they come to Christ, then they are claiming Salvation from sins penalty for themselves by their activity, their doing, their work, their deed !
Again a work is described by the biblical word for work ergon :
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done or doing: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
If the above is true according to Biblical definitions then hire me for my faith. Be sure and give me a good wage for "the work of my faith." Your position is ludicrous.
savedbymercy
New Member
Again a work is described by the biblical word for work ergon :
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done or doing: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Since when does an ENGLISH Dictionary trump a clear unambiguous explicitly stated Biblical Definition? Is Webster your final authority for BIBLICAL DEFINITIONS????????
DHK gave you an INSPIRED Biblical definition and you try to trump it with Webster? Is Webster inspired? DOES WEBSTER DEAL WITH THE BIBLICAL CONTEXT OF ROMANS 4:1-6???????????
Pleeeeeeeeease use some common sense!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Thats Strong's dictionary ! And I am going by that.
Secondly, The Bible I read , My God had translated into the English,m so English dictionary can also be consulted.
So again, the word ergon means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done or doing: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Believing is an product of the mind, its an act, its a deed, its a doing.
If you or anyone else base their Justification before God because of something they did, had to do, then you forfeit Justification by Grace and Salvation by Grace through Faith !
Thats Strong's dictionary ! And I am going by that.
Secondly, The Bible I read , My God had translated into the English,m so English dictionary can also be consulted.
So again, the word ergon means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done or doing: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Believing is an product of the mind, its an act, its a deed, its a doing.
If you or anyone else base their Justification before God because of something they did, had to do, then you forfeit Justification by Grace and Salvation by Grace through Faith !
savedbymercy
New Member
Faith in or believing on Christ is an act of man, something man does, so its by definition a work ! In scripture faith in Christ or believing in him is described as fleeing to Him for refuge Heb 6:18
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Notice Prov 18:10
The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.
It speaks of the Name of the Lord ! As in Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Now notice the word run, very similar to the word flee, now is one saved because they runneth ? If so then that contradicts Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
One is not saved by Mercy because they runneth or exert effort. Fleeing to the city of refuge denotes danger. Sometimes God's elect right before they rest in the Name of Christ, are by God's providence brought to an awful sensibility and alarm fr their Eternal Well Being,such as the Philippian Jailor, resulting from that frightening providence, he experienced by the Sovereignty of God, so much so that he cried out, what must I do to be saved, but this made him fit to trust in the Name of the Lord, through the Word Paul spake unto him Acts 16:32
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Now was it the fleeing or running to Christ that got him saved from the penalty of his sins ? Was it his believing ? If so, then he was saved by his works, his running, which is contrary to scripture Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Notice also,not of him that willeth,or his volition. What is volition ? The word means:
a choice or decision made by the will.
That verse also condemns 99.9% of all false religions who claim to receive mercy for salvation by a choice or decision made by their freewill ! Thats a work !
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Notice Prov 18:10
The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.
It speaks of the Name of the Lord ! As in Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Now notice the word run, very similar to the word flee, now is one saved because they runneth ? If so then that contradicts Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
One is not saved by Mercy because they runneth or exert effort. Fleeing to the city of refuge denotes danger. Sometimes God's elect right before they rest in the Name of Christ, are by God's providence brought to an awful sensibility and alarm fr their Eternal Well Being,such as the Philippian Jailor, resulting from that frightening providence, he experienced by the Sovereignty of God, so much so that he cried out, what must I do to be saved, but this made him fit to trust in the Name of the Lord, through the Word Paul spake unto him Acts 16:32
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Now was it the fleeing or running to Christ that got him saved from the penalty of his sins ? Was it his believing ? If so, then he was saved by his works, his running, which is contrary to scripture Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Notice also,not of him that willeth,or his volition. What is volition ? The word means:
a choice or decision made by the will.
That verse also condemns 99.9% of all false religions who claim to receive mercy for salvation by a choice or decision made by their freewill ! Thats a work !
And a woman trying to find the will of God for her life opened her Bible, and it read:
1. Judas went out and hung himself.
So she repeated the process and it read:
2. Go and do thou likewise.
So she repeated the process, and it read:
3. What thou doest do quickly.
Did she find the will of God for her life?
Have you found the definition of faith? Only if that woman has found the will of God.
savedbymercy
New Member
Works of Righteousness !
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
A work is a thing done ! The word for works is ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Righteousness here means:
integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting
Things that we do which are right or correct, correctness of thinking.
The word done means:
to act rightly, do well
1) to carry out, to execute
b) to do a thing unto one
1) to do to one
That word is used with works in many places as here:
Matt 7:22
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
John 7:21
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
Believing in Christ is one of many works of Righteousness a man does, so if one says they are Justified before God because of their act of believing
The word believing, pisteuo means :
to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
Thinking right or correct is a Righteousness according to the definition above for Righteousness from Tit 3:5
So those of you that insist you get saved or Justified before God based on your believing, you reject the fundamental teaching of Titus 3:5, and espouse a false teaching of Salvation by your works ! You see, being saved is not by works or acts of Righteousness which we have done !
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
A work is a thing done ! The word for works is ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Righteousness here means:
integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting
Things that we do which are right or correct, correctness of thinking.
The word done means:
to act rightly, do well
1) to carry out, to execute
b) to do a thing unto one
1) to do to one
That word is used with works in many places as here:
Matt 7:22
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
John 7:21
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
Believing in Christ is one of many works of Righteousness a man does, so if one says they are Justified before God because of their act of believing
The word believing, pisteuo means :
to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
Thinking right or correct is a Righteousness according to the definition above for Righteousness from Tit 3:5
So those of you that insist you get saved or Justified before God based on your believing, you reject the fundamental teaching of Titus 3:5, and espouse a false teaching of Salvation by your works ! You see, being saved is not by works or acts of Righteousness which we have done !
Faith is "pistis" not ergon. You fail in that category for definitions.
Judas committed the "work" of hanging himself which resulted in death.
The jailer did not work but believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and was saved. This was something Judas never did.
Judas worked; the Jailer did not. Judas died both physically and spiritually; the jailer died only physically. He was given eternal life, something he never worked for.
Ah, one of my favorite verses! Can't resist the fly by:
(Rom 10:9) If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Note: You is used 4 times in this verse. You'll be surprised by how much "you" there is in a book that supposedly says that we do nothing.
Need more?:
(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
(Rom 10:9) If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Note: You is used 4 times in this verse. You'll be surprised by how much "you" there is in a book that supposedly says that we do nothing.
Need more?:
(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
Tell me something I have not already known ! Faith or believing is something man does, a work, a ergon !
Tell me something I have not already known ! Faith or believing is something man does, a work, a ergon !
savedbymercy
New Member
dw
The Jailor did well, acted rightly, he did a work of righteousness with his mind or heart. Do you deny that ?
The Jailor did well, acted rightly, he did a work of righteousness with his mind or heart. Do you deny that ?