What are the Main differences between reformed Baptists and other Baptists then?

[Yeshua1]

I can't remember seeing so much error in one place.

Where does faith come from?

God

 

[Squire Robertsson]

You made what appear to me to be a series of categorical statements. These statements were made without allowing any shades of gray or nuance.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I did not say, nor imply that every non-confession based Baptist holds those biblical views, nor every Confession based Baptist holds the bogus views.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Yet another taint so post. Why not actually address the topic. Post # 31 accurately describes the main differences between Confession based Baptists and other Baptists.

Where does faith come from? Let me answer you as you answered the topic question. Faith does not come from irresistible grace. Now have I answered your question or side stepped it?

How about we are saved by grace through faith, thus our faith in Christ preceded receiving grace. When you enter a room through a door, you go through the door before you enter the room. This is not rocket science.

Faith comes from hearing and learning from the gospel. God gave us the ability to hear and respond to the gospel. Some of us lose that ability, the first soil of Matthew 13, but the rest are able to respond.
Ask yourself where did the faith of the men entering heaven (Matthew 23:13) come from? Not irresistible grace for they were blocked.

Non Confession based Baptists believe the Bible means what it says, Jesus will reign on earth for 1000 years. (You can't even begin to prove this.)
Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ died as a ransom for all. (I see. You haven't been to, too many SBC churches.)
Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ became the propitiation (or means of salvation) for the whole world. (Yet the Bible says that Christ is the propitiation for the elect.)
Non Confession based Baptists believe the Elders report and are accountable to the congregation. (You are confused.)
Non Confession based Baptists believe we are saved by grace through faith. (So do reformed Baptist.)
Non Confession based Baptists believe in open communion, open to all professing believers. ( Nonsense, I grew up in an Arminian stronghold church and communion was offered after the service for professing believers ONLY.)

Reformed Baptists deny the earthly 1000 year reign. (Prove it with facts)
Reformed Baptists deny Christ died as a ransom for all. (True because that is not what the Bible teaches.)
Reformed Baptists deny Christ is the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world. (True, the Bible says He died for the elect.)
Reformed Baptists deny that church leaders (no matter the title) are accountable to the congregation. (You are confused.)
Reformed Baptists deny we are saved by grace through faith, they claim we are saved then given faith. (Who told you this?) Of all the error you have posted, this is the worst.)
Reformed Baptists deny open communion to all professing believers. (Some do and some don't)


Poor God. He has to wait on mere man to save people.

From Charles Haddon Spurgeon:

Flattery Through The Future


“According to the freewill scheme the Lord intends good, but he must wait like a
lackey on his own creature to know what his intention is; God willeth good and
would do it, but he cannot, because he has an unwilling man who will not have God’s
good thing carried into effect. What do ye, sirs, but drag the eternal from his throne,
and lift up into it that fallen creature, man; for man, according to that theory, nods,
and his nod is destiny.”



“It seems inexplicable to me that those who claim free will so very boldly for man,
should not also allow some free will to God.” 762.412

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I did not say, nor imply that every non confession based baptist holds those biblical views, nor every Confession based Baptist holds the bogus views.

weasel, weasel....

You framed them as statements of fact.

 

[Van]

weasel, weasel....
You framed them as statements of fact.

You have not supported your views, nor presented truth. Therefore you hurl "weasel" toward me.

You use the same flawed reading comprehension as found in Calvinist arguments. I said non Confessional Baptists believe this or that, and you misrepresent it as saying each and every non Confessional Baptist believes this or that.

Do many non-Confessional baptists believe Jesus will reign 1000 years on earth. Of course, but you claim that cannot be proved. All they have are absurdities, and falsehoods.

Does Jesus being the means of salvation for the elect preclude being the means of salvation or propitiation for the whole world? Nope, so yet another absurdity.

Congregational polity is wide spread among non-Confessional Baptists, yet you say I am confused. You are just making absurd arguments.

Non Confessional based Baptists believe we are saved by grace through faith, Reformed Baptists believe we are saved then given faith. You again deny this, but your denial misrepresents your "gift of faith" doctrine.
Amillennialism is the doctrine of Reformed Baptists, no need to provide evidence, just google it. "The name by which the distinctively Reformed doctrine of the last things is known is "amillennialism."

Lastly you quote strawman arguments against views that are mistaken. You need to address the view presented. God credits our faith (or not) as righteousness, and chooses us for salvation through our credited faith. (Romans 4:4-5, 4:23-24; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)

There is no need to continue discussion.

 

[Van]

You made what appear to me to be a series of categorical statements. These statements were made without allowing any shades of gray or nuance.

It is not my fault you misinterpreted my statement such that it was absurd. Go back and read the statements again, I did not say nor imply that each and every non Confessional based Baptist believed this or that, only that more than one (baptists) did.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

You have not supported your views, nor presented truth. Therefore you hurl "weasel" toward me.

Since you now want to be precise, let's play in your barnyard. You didn't ask me to support my views. You tried to convince us of your statements as facts. I just demonstrated you failed to do so.

You use the same flawed reading comprehension as found in Calvinist arguments. I said non Confessional Baptists believe this or that, and you misrepresent it as saying each and every non Confessional Baptist believes this or that.

No, I didn't. I simply corrected your false statements. I cannot be responsible for your lack of research.

Do many non-Confessional baptists believe Jesus will reign 1000 years on earth. Of course, but you claim that cannot be proved. All they have are absurdities, and falsehoods.

You were the one who made the statements, not I. Talk about absurdities and falsehoods.

Does Jesus being the means of salvation for the elect preclude being the means of salvation or propitiation for the whole world? Nope, so yet another absurdity.

Just as soon as you can show me, from scripture, that free will is involved in salvation, I may reconsider. But you won't. I know it and you know it.

Congregational polity is wide spread among non-Confessional Baptists, yet you say I am confused. You are just making absurd arguments.

I'm sorry, you need to go back and read what you wrote.

Non Confessional based Baptists believe we are saved by grace through faith, Reformed Baptists believe we are saved then given faith. You again deny this, but your denial misrepresents your "gift of faith" doctrine.
Amillennialism is the doctrine of Reformed Baptists, no need to provide evidence, just google it. "The name by which the distinctively Reformed doctrine of the last things is known is "amillennialism."

Not all confessional Baptists hold to amil. Funny, buried in your disdain, shows that once again you cannot provide evidence from scripture.

Lastly you quote strawman arguments against views that are mistaken. You need to address the view presented. God credits our faith (or not) as righteousness, and chooses us for salvation through our credited faith. (Romans 4:4-5, 4:23-24; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)

No, my beliefs are from scripture.

John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

John 1:12,13: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Romans 9:15-16: "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Romans 9:22-24: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Ephesians 1:4-5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Ephesians 1:11: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5: "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake."

2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44 - 4 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

There is no need to continue discussion.

You seem to do this a lot. If you cannot support your views and make people believe it, you run.

Weasel, weasel................

 

[Squire Robertsson]

From my perspective, you made the statements without qualifying them. If according to you I misinterpreted them, it was from a lack of information. IOW, you were not as clear as you thought you were. Your charges against the Confessionals are the same as you have laid against them in other threads. So, I gave your descriptions of Non-Confessionals the same weight.

It is not my fault you misinterpreted my statement such that it was absurd. Go back and read the statements again, I did not say nor imply that each and every non-Confessional based Baptist believed this or that, only that more than one (baptists) did.

 

[David Kent]

• Luke 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

 

[Van]

Hi David, your verse (Luke 14:23) is a rather famous mistranslation. It should read, go out into the highways and hedges and invite them to come in.... This mistranslation is thought by some to have fostered the dark ages.

Here is Dr. Dan Wallace NET footnote:

78tn Traditionally “force” or “compel,” but according to BDAG 60 s.v. ἀναγκάζω 2 this is a weakened nuance: “strongly urge/invite.” The meaning in this context is more like “persuade.”

 

[Van]

Notice the predictable trajectory into absurdity. Name calling (Weasel) misrepresentation, and little discussion of the topic.
One of the deflection tactics of Calvinists is to deny there own doctrine. Thus they say the believe we are saved by grace through faith, rather than saved by grace and given faith. But they say regeneration before faith, so they are denying the obvious.
Here is a typical misrepresentation "not all Confessional Baptists hold to Amil" Did I say all did? Nope. More deflection from the topic of the differences between Confessional (Reformed) Baptists and Biblical Baptists.

Did I support my views and show the Confession based views to be bogus? Yes. So the response is deflection and disparagement and misrepresentation.

 

[Van]

Returning to topic:
[Note that none of the following distinctives say all or each and every baptist, rather the statements apply to at least more than one baptist within the specified groups. ]

Non Confession based Baptists believe the Bible means what it says, Jesus will reign on earth for 1000 years.
Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ died as a ransom for all.
Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ became the propitiation (or means of salvation) for the whole world.
Non Confession based Baptists believe the Elders report and are accountable to the congregation.
Non Confession based Baptists believe we are saved by grace through faith.
Non Confession based Baptists believe in open communion, open to all professing believers.

Reformed Baptists deny the earthly 1000 year reign.
Reformed Baptists deny Christ died as a ransom for all.
Reformed Baptists deny Christ is the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world.
Reformed Baptists deny that church leaders (no matter the title) are accountable to the congregation.
Reformed Baptists deny we are saved by grace through faith, they claim we are saved then given faith.
Reformed Baptists deny open communion to all professing believers.

Now will what follows to on topic discussion of distinctives or more manufactured deflection?

 

[Rippon]

One of the deflection tactics of Calvinists is to deny there [sic] own doctrine.

How so?

Here is a typical misrepresentation "not all Confessional Baptists hold to Amil" Did I say all did? Nope. More deflection from the topic of the differences between Confessional (Reformed) Baptists and Biblical Baptists.

Listen Van-man: you know very well that you made categorical statements as Squire said.

When you use statements such as "Non Confession Baptists believe..."
And "Confession Baptists deny..."

You are setting yourself up for a fall. You made blanket statements. You didn't qualify anything with words like:most, many, some, in my experience.

So when you try to weasel-out of your errors you come up with the silly and all-too-wimpy words :"Did I say all?" You are such a card Van.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ became the propitiation (or means of salvation) for the whole world.

What you mean is that you believe this. Nobody else does, or at least, I have never heard anyone but you spout this nonsense. Christ is not the 'means of salvation' for anyone, and nowhere in the Bible is He spoken of as such. He is the Saviour. Nor, of course, does 'propitiation' mean the same thing as 'means of salvation.'

 

[David Kent]

Hi David, your verse (Luke 14:23) is a rather famous mistranslation. It should read, go out into the highways and hedges and invite them to come in.... This mistranslation is thought by some to have fostered the dark ages.

Here is Dr. Dan Wallace NET footnote:

78tn Traditionally “force” or “compel,” but according to BDAG 60 s.v. ἀναγκάζω 2 this is a weakened nuance: “strongly urge/invite.” The meaning in this context is more like “persuade.”

Can't challenge the message, so attack he the translation.

 

[Yeshua1]

What you mean is that you believe this. Nobody else does, or at least, I have never heard anyone but you spout this nonsense. Christ is not the 'means of salvation' for anyone, and nowhere in the Bible is He spoken of as such. He is the Saviour. Nor, of course, does 'propitiation' mean the same thing as 'means of salvation.'

It would be interesting to read a systematic theology by Dr Van!

 

[Yeshua1]

Returning to topic:
[Note that none of the following distinctives say all or each and every baptist, rather the statements apply to at least more than one baptist within the specified groups. ]

Non Confession based Baptists believe the Bible means what it says, Jesus will reign on earth for 1000 years.
Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ died as a ransom for all.
Non Confession based Baptists believe Christ became the propitiation (or means of salvation) for the whole world.
Non Confession based Baptists believe the Elders report and are accountable to the congregation.
Non Confession based Baptists believe we are saved by grace through faith.
Non Confession based Baptists believe in open communion, open to all professing believers.

Reformed Baptists deny the earthly 1000 year reign.
Reformed Baptists deny Christ died as a ransom for all.
Reformed Baptists deny Christ is the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world.
Reformed Baptists deny that church leaders (no matter the title) are accountable to the congregation.
Reformed Baptists deny we are saved by grace through faith, they claim we are saved then given faith.
Reformed Baptists deny open communion to all professing believers.

Now will what follows to on topic discussion of distinctives or more manufactured deflection?

Are reformed Baptists and Calvinists even saved then by your theology?

 

[David Kent]

Are reformed Baptists and Calvinists even saved then by your theology?

Sinners are not saved by theology but by, faith in Christ. Reformed Baptists and Calvinists ate saved the same way as liberal Baptists.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sinners are not saved by theology but by, faith in Christ. Reformed Baptists and Calvinists ate saved the same way as liberal Baptists.

I agree, but was just asking Van if he sees reformed/calvinists as really being saved, as he states that both hold to heretical theology and doctrine!

 

[Van]

Can't challenge the message, so attack he the translation.

I am not sure what your point is, but the traditional translations, (compel) are in error. Now you can deny this, but please provide something to challenge the scholarship of Dr. Wallace and the BDAG, rather than insinuating ulterior motives.