What are your thoughts on music?

[FrigidDev]

All you did was say "it sounds like satan", you didn't actually say anything useful, just your own personal opinion, and you end with "I promise I'm right", and basically said if anyone argues against what you believe, then they lack an ability to understand God.

Which is appalling to say the very least.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I'm sorry but this was pretty funny to read. As the "OP", I said that as you listen to this music more, you understand it better. Not just this song, but once you're used to the sound of the general genre, you understand it after that.

Which furthers my point. "Once you're used to the .. genre", which means that you had to sit through how many songs that only elicited anger and hate before you could finally find out that these guys are singing about God?

Honestly if your wife thinks music is satanic just because of the type of music, well...then that's just rooted in ignorance of the music industry.

Two things to this: Firstly, you have no idea what our connections to the music industry is, so this is a pretty bold statement. Suffice to say that there is no ignorance of the music industry. Beyond actually being a professional performer at one time, I currently teach music theory.

Second, if there were, you don't have to know anything about an industry to distinguish between the spirit of God, and the spirit of flesh, and the spirit of Satan.

The words, well, they aren't "completely and totally unintelligible", and there's a whole base of this music that would disagree with you.

They can disagree all they want. I even tried to listen to it again. I made it about one minute into the song before I gave up. I could not discern a single word. Not even the commonly used ones, like "an", "the", etc. It sounded like growling.

Honestly if you are able to be turned on to "Wanting to kill", just by listening to a song..then..I don't know what to say. I mean it's just funny that you think this.

No, it's not funny. And that's my point. And I know what the desire to kill feels like. And I pray that you never have to feel it.

Do you think the growling vocals are demonic? Probably, based on your post. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever heard a demon? No, you haven't.

You know, I've never participated in a Satanic ritual before. Maybe I've misjudged them? I mean, I've never experienced a call to Satan, so maybe what I think is going on isn't really what's going on. Obviously I'm using hyperbole. But the point stands. Non-experience does not mean that you can't discern the spirit.

Now let me ask you another question. What do you think of when you think of death metal and its culture? Satanic, evil, putrid, right? I'd like to point out that Metal is one of the least popular genres of music ever, which is why you don't hear this stuff in commercials. Now, if Satan(who has the voice of an angel of light), and who is the ruler of this world, wanted to deceive the most people with his satanic message, what do you think he would use as his platform? Well of course, the most popular genre of music/entertainment that there is...Pop. So. Satan is the great deceiver. He's convinced the population that music like Katy Perry and Taylor Swift is innocent, and that anything that "sounds scary" and is dark, is satanic. I argue that it is exactly the opposite. Take a long, hard look at the Pop artists of today. You will see their music RIDDLED with satanic and luciferian imagery. On the other hand, this song speaks the truth of the Bible(literally straight up verses), but "sounds scary", and for some reason, people like you are tricked into believing it...


Here's a rule of thumb for you. Anytime you see something popular...whether it be music, or movies, or whatever, run the other direction. Satan is alive, living in this world, and deceiving billions of people every day. Take a good look at what you're allowing to influence your life, and then decide whether or not music is satanic or not, just because it's a scary sound.

No one's arguing about pop music. It's not on trial. I agree with you there. Satan has used it in a huge way. And it started just like what you're trying to do here. Pop used to be recognized for what it is. But Christians let it slip little by little, and now all I have to do is type the words, "I kissed a girl", and most people can finish the line, tell me who sang it, and even hum a few bars. So, yes, it is evil. But that doesn't lessen the evil of other genres.

As has already been pointed out, popularity is not a criteria for standards. If that were the case (if you'll pardon the ad absurdum) then we'd all be emo kids or at the very least be indy.

For me, I would rather listen to the most abrasive, guttural, scary Christian music that has a holy message, then even consider for a second, listening to some Luciferian garbage that Taylor Swift and Beyonce'(and even some CCM artists, believe it or not), put out.

Again, this has already been dealt with, but it's a false dichotomy fallacy. It isn't either/or. There is also the possibility of neither.

for some reason, people like you are tricked into believing it...

I'll end with this note. You've made a huge assumption here, one that I've already debunked. "People like me" don't listen to pop. And your insinuation that I've been tricked because I think that the style of music you're defending is evil? Well, I'm going to use your own words that you posted to another poster.

you didn't actually say anything useful, just your own personal opinion, ... and basically said if anyone argues against what you believe, then they lack an ability to understand God.

Which is appalling to say the very least.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

You've added nothing to discussion. You can't just say things without anything to back it up, and then expect your point to be respected. Read the rest of the thread, how people argued logically, presenting arguments with supporting facts.

I don't need to go down this road, people always present the same arguments, simply put what it will boil down to is you trying to argue that musical style is amoral, which is absolutely false, the musical style communicates and evokes feelings regardless of the words. Heavy Metal Music does not evoke feelings or communicate holiness or the fruit of the Spirit, It's the same with rock music, etc.

The point is that you like this kind of music because it appeals to your flesh and makes you feel good with the dopamine rush that the music provides you..at its core nature that musical style promotes what is contrary to God, just because some people insert lyrics about Jesus, does not mean it is now sanctified.

There is a reason why a certain style of music is played at clubs, and hippie music festivals. Can you imagine anything close to the style of the classic hymn amazing grace getting a good reception with a bunch of drunk people? of course not. There is a reason for this.

People can come up with all kinds of reasons and excuses to justify worldly and carnal entertainment.

 

[JonC]

The point is that you like this kind of music because it appeals to your flesh and makes you feel good with the dopamine rush that the music provides you..at its core nature that musical style promotes what is contrary to God, just because some people insert lyrics about Jesus, does not mean it is now sanctified.

You do know, I take it, that when we are “touched” by one of those old hymns (A Mighty Fortress, for example)….or when we get chill bumps singing “Holy Holy Holy”, that physically this is also a neurological reaction. Lyrics can have the same reaction apart from the music (If you don't believe me, read “This is Just to Say” by William Carlos Williams).

While I agree with your conclusions about the music itself, but I disagree with your reasoning.

In the 18th century many rejected the use of hymns in worship for, essentially, appealing to the flesh. These hymns were not metrical psalms. They were hymns of “human composure”. It is interesting to think that all of those hymns you would sing were opposed by many on the ground you now stand. And what was objectionable was the words, not the music. Isaac Watts did not put his words to “death metal”….well....at least not in public .

There is a reason why a certain style of music is played at clubs, and hippie music festivals.

Hippie music festivals? Hippies? Much of their destructive ideologies have been incorporated into the Democratic Party, their music style into indy/folk and country music…..what defined them was a sense of counterculture which no longer can be applied. Hippies are not the problem. You gotta watch out for the flappers and their short skirts . Oh, and the beatniks….now that’s another story....beatniks.... Cautious....

Can you imagine anything close to the style of the classic hymn amazing grace getting a good reception with a bunch of drunk people?

If you mean would people like Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead), Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, and Willie Nelson (had to add Willie…not quite hippie but not quite not hippie either), then yes….I definitely could imagine all of them, and others, performing Amazing Grace (and I can do this without even using any imagination).

People can come up with all kinds of reasons and excuses to justify worldly and carnal entertainment.

I agree. And this is a problem that has penetrated our churches.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

You do know, I take it, that when we are “touched” by one of those old hymns (A Mighty Fortress, for example)….or when we get chill bumps singing “Holy Holy Holy”, that physically this is also a neurological reaction. Lyrics can have the same reaction apart from the music (If you don't believe me, read “This is Just to Say” by William Carlos Williams).

While I agree with your conclusions about the music itself, but I disagree with your reasoning.

In the 18th century many rejected the use of hymns in worship for, essentially, appealing to the flesh. These hymns were not metrical psalms. They were hymns of “human composure”. It is interesting to think that all of those hymns you would sing were opposed by many on the ground you now stand. And what was objectionable was the words, not the music. Isaac Watts did not put his words to “death metal”….well....at least not in public .



Hippie music festivals? Hippies? Much of their destructive ideologies have been incorporated into the Democratic Party, their music style into indy/folk and country music…..what defined them was a sense of counterculture which no longer can be applied. Hippies are not the problem. You gotta watch out for the flappers and their short skirts . Oh, and the beatniks….now that’s another story....beatniks.... Cautious....

If you mean would people like Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead), Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, and Willie Nelson (had to add Willie…not quite hippie but not quite not hippie either), then yes….I definitely could imagine all of them, and others, performing Amazing Grace (and I can do this without even using any imagination).

I agree. And this is a problem that has penetrated our churches.

my point is that people mistake a dopamine rush for the Holy spirit. My point was not that all dopamine rushes are evil.

And i meant could you really imagine amazing grace in it's original form and style be appealing to those on drugs or alcohol. i almost guarantee you they will want something more appealing to their carnal flesh.

my point is simply that music communicates on it's own without emotion. I contend that there are certain musical styles that communicate a sinful appetite and attitude. I believe that just like certain lyrics to songs are inspired by Satan, so are certain types and forms of music.

 

[Revmitchell]

Simply look to Revelation to understand my analogy of popularity = good sign of evil. Of course death metal isn't exempt from satanic-ness....but they're open about it. With secular(and some christian) popular music, it's hidden. We don't even think twice about it, and that's what's so incredibly twisted about our world. It's completely run by satan himself.

The converse of my point(That would be: The more unpopular something is, the more holy it is), is in no way true. Simply the point is that when a majority is doing something....it's usually either or a lie or concealed evil.

So you are defending a music style called "death-metal"?

And you do not see a problem with that?

 

[JonC]

my point is that people mistake a dopamine rush for the Holy spirit. My point was not that all dopamine rushes are evil.

And i meant could you really imagine amazing grace in it's original form and style be appealing to those on drugs or alcohol. i almost guarantee you they will want something more appealing to their carnal flesh.

my point is simply that music communicates on it's own without emotion. I contend that there are certain musical styles that communicate a sinful appetite and attitude. I believe that just like certain lyrics to songs are inspired by Satan, so are certain types and forms of music.

I know, brother. Part of my reply was meant lightheartedly.

Yes, I have heard some of those I mentioned perform Amazing Grace in it's original form and style (although Joe Walsh used a guitar on his version). No, I disagree that music communicates on its own without emotion (but I also believe that for lyrics to be effective they carry emotion themselves as well). Focusing solely on the cognitive is just as bad as focusing solely on the emotion.

I agree that music itself can be satanic.

 

[FrigidDev]

You're making the same arguments over and over again.

Let me try and respond without bringing the subjective part into the debate.


1. Music can convey a message without having lyrics. (I believe true)

a. However, the medium is not 100% of the message. (you say it is 100%)

Let me illustrate. You have a classical song by Chopin(a personal favorite), which is relaxing, and an instrumental song by a death metal band, which is energizing.

From your logic, the death metal song would actually be worse than the Chopin song, and it would be fine to listen to Chopin.

Ok, great, let's take that in a different context. I have a classical song with lyrics like this "Oh hail Satan, etc, etc". Is that song perfectly fine to listen to? according to your logic, that "the medium is the message", it would be fine to listen to that song, since classical has a relaxing effect, unlike death metal, which is more aggressive music.

Obviously, you would have a problem with that song, and thus by counterexample, the medium is NOT the message.

If this was mathematics, I would have just made a slam dunk proof, just so you know.

2. Music is subjective.

a. Several of you have said that you cannot understand the lyrics...while that may be true, I can understand them, and many other fellow listeners can understand them as well, so any point you have about that is subjective and therefore invalid to apply generally.

b. People have been making the point that how you feel while listening to the song, can actually be holy, or evil. I strongly disagree. If I listen to a song that brings forth anger, and is energizing, then it is 100% up to me, how I channel that anger. If I am channeling it towards something not evil(i.e., hating satan, remembering to witness because people are going to hell, etc., etc.), then how is that in any way, bad? It's not.

Think of this...you're listening to what you think is a benign, christian song. They lyrics are great, stuff like "Oh I will serve you Lord, I love you with all my heart", and so on. At the end of the song, the singer closes with the line "And so lord of light, I end my worship", or something similar. To you, that means Jesus, but to someone else, that could mean Lucifer. Where are you now? You have a song that to you, is holy, with holy lyrics, but could in fact be a ballad to satan. For all you know, the singer who made the song, could secretly be a satanist, putting subtle references in his songs.

It's all about where you draw the line guys. With your logic, you could extend it like that, and come up with some outrageous conclusions. "Oh, I can't go play paintball, because it energizes me and makes me want to do violent things...". See what I mean?


So, if you don't like the music...don't listen to it. Just like I hate country music, and don't listen to it, so you shouldn't listen to death metal, if you don't like it.

It's a preference. What appeals to you, might not appeal to me, and vice versa.


The music itself is not inherently evil. Alright, the music itself might be inherently aggressive, but that is no indication that the song itself is "satanic". It's up to you, the listener, how you interpret that energy.

P.S., I don't get angry when I listen to this music, I don't know why you guys say you get mad and violent...I don't. Maybe if I was working out, it would make me work out harder. But just sitting here at the computer...I could switch from Chopin to death metal in a heartbeat and not have a change of mind. (And I actually do do that).

 

[FrigidDev]

No, just like I don't think that Rock music has anything to do with Rocks.

Death metal is a genre named after a band called "death", that introduced the iconic sound. So no, I don't see a style of music as clashing with Christianity, just based off of its name, or its sound.

 

[Rolfe]

FrigidDev, I took a look at your profile and noticed that you say that you are sixteen years old. I mean this as no insult, but I wonder if you will change your thinking a bit when you mature in years. I know that I did.

 

[FrigidDev]

FrigidDev, I took a look at your profile and noticed that you say that you are sixteen years old. I mean this as no insult, but I wonder if you will change your thinking a bit when you mature in years. I know that I did.

That's probably true.

Doesn't discount my argument though.

 

[JonC]

You're making the same arguments over and over again.

Let me try and respond without bringing the subjective part into the debate.


1. Music can convey a message without having lyrics. (I believe true)

a. However, the medium is not 100% of the message. (you say it is 100%)

Let me illustrate. You have a classical song by Chopin(a personal favorite), which is relaxing, and an instrumental song by a death metal band, which is energizing.

From your logic, the death metal song would actually be worse than the Chopin song, and it would be fine to listen to Chopin.

Ok, great, let's take that in a different context. I have a classical song with lyrics like this "Oh hail Satan, etc, etc". Is that song perfectly fine to listen to? according to your logic, that "the medium is the message", it would be fine to listen to that song, since classical has a relaxing effect, unlike death metal, which is more aggressive music.

Obviously, you would have a problem with that song, and thus by counterexample, the medium is NOT the message.

If this was mathematics, I would have just made a slam dunk proof, just so you know.

2. Music is subjective.

a. Several of you have said that you cannot understand the lyrics...while that may be true, I can understand them, and many other fellow listeners can understand them as well, so any point you have about that is subjective and therefore invalid to apply generally.

b. People have been making the point that how you feel while listening to the song, can actually be holy, or evil. I strongly disagree. If I listen to a song that brings forth anger, and is energizing, then it is 100% up to me, how I channel that anger. If I am channeling it towards something not evil(i.e., hating satan, remembering to witness because people are going to hell, etc., etc.), then how is that in any way, bad? It's not.

Think of this...you're listening to what you think is a benign, christian song. They lyrics are great, stuff like "Oh I will serve you Lord, I love you with all my heart", and so on. At the end of the song, the singer closes with the line "And so lord of light, I end my worship", or something similar. To you, that means Jesus, but to someone else, that could mean Lucifer. Where are you now? You have a song that to you, is holy, with holy lyrics, but could in fact be a ballad to satan. For all you know, the singer who made the song, could secretly be a satanist, putting subtle references in his songs.

It's all about where you draw the line guys. With your logic, you could extend it like that, and come up with some outrageous conclusions. "Oh, I can't go play paintball, because it energizes me and makes me want to do violent things...". See what I mean?


So, if you don't like the music...don't listen to it. Just like I hate country music, and don't listen to it, so you shouldn't listen to death metal, if you don't like it.

It's a preference. What appeals to you, might not appeal to me, and vice versa.


The music itself is not inherently evil. Alright, the music itself might be inherently aggressive, but that is no indication that the song itself is "satanic". It's up to you, the listener, how you interpret that energy.

P.S., I don't get angry when I listen to this music, I don't know why you guys say you get mad and violent...I don't. Maybe if I was working out, it would make me work out harder. But just sitting here at the computer...I could switch from Chopin to death metal in a heartbeat and not have a change of mind. (And I actually do do that).

To whom are you responding?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I agree that metal evokes an angry and frustrated kind of tone most of the time.

...when I listen to good, christian death metal, I'm thinking about the depravity of our world, and the bleak fact that billions, BILLIONS of people have died and are dying, without the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That makes me angry, and frustrated.

P.S., I don't get angry when I listen to this music...

Does listening to "Christian" Death Metal make you angry or not? Is anger ever justified?

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Pr 22:24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:

 

[FrigidDev]

Does listening to "Christian" Death Metal make you angry or not? Is anger ever justified?

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Pr 22:24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:

yes anger is definitely justified.

we already went over this earlier. Those verses are talking about fleshly anger. Like getting mad in traffic. Righteous anger/hate is justified.

Psalm 7:11

God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

 

[Revmitchell]

No, just like I don't think that Rock music has anything to do with Rocks.

Death metal is a genre named after a band called "death", that introduced the iconic sound. So no, I don't see a style of music as clashing with Christianity, just based off of its name, or its sound.

I will ask again. You are defending "death-metal" and you do not see a problem with that?

 

[FrigidDev]

I will ask again. You are defending "death-metal" and you do not see a problem with that?

No!

It's just the name of the genre. If you can't see past the name of the genre...I mean come on.

There's another genre I like, it's called Metalcore...have a problem with that? Well you shouldn't, because it's just a name

 

[JonC]

Maybe you should have just called it "Christian Metal", Frigid, and left the "death", or "black", off the label.

Ha....I was about to say metalcore....although I think of metalcore as a fusion....like Demon Hunter....or is that nu metal.....ah....kids today....learn one new trick and it's a bygone genre. Laugh

It's better than what I listened to when I was young....er......

 

[Revmitchell]

No!

It's just the name of the genre. If you can't see past the name of the genre...I mean come on.

There's another genre I like, it's called Metalcore...have a problem with that? Well you shouldn't, because it's just a name

Names are given because they are descriptive of the thing they represent. Why was the word "death" used in that genre of music in the first place?

How can a music genre entitled "death-metal" glorify God? What about that genre does "death" represent?

 

[FrigidDev]

Maybe you should have just called it "Christian Metal", Frigid, and left the "death", or "black", off the label.

Ha....I was about to say metalcore....although I think of metalcore as a fusion....like Demon Hunter....or is that nu metal.....ah....kids today....learn one new trick and it's a bygone genre. Laugh

It's better than what I listened to when I was young....er......

Yea, it's a fusion between post-hardcore/hardcore with heavy metal.

Demon Hunter is melodic metal/metalcore .

I agree, the genres are kinda hard to keep up with

Names are given because they are descriptive of the thing they represent. Why was the word "death" used in that genre of music in the first place?

How can a music genre entitled "death-metal" glorify God? What about that genre does "feath" represent?

I actually already described what death represents in death metal. It's the name of the band, "Death", who started the genre back in the '80s.

If you want a description of death metal, take this:

"Death metal is an extreme subgenre of heavy metal. It typically employs heavily distorted guitars, tremolo picking, deep growling vocals, blast beat drumming, minor keys or atonality, and complex song structures with multiple tempo changes."


Also, you're completely side-stepping all the different arguments, and focusing on something as petty as the name of the genre.

 

[Rolfe]

What about that genre does "feath" represent?

"Feath"?