What did Jesus mean when He said touch me not

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I always understood the first resurrection to be the resurrection of our bodies. No one has had a resurrected body yet except Jesus. David and Moses have not been resurrected - they went to wherever the OT saints went after death and at some point went to be with Christ (this is the part the Bible is not clear on), but they do not have their resurrected bodies yet.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, i know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. :25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: :26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (This is the first resurrection). Rev. 2o:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, .... To be made alive in Christ we have passed from death unto life.(The day though eateth there of thou shall surely die, and that day he died and all his prosperiety.the first death) Christ rose in the first ressurection with the 144 thousand and they are in heaven now worshipping him in their ressurected bodies. when one is quickened by the Holy Ghost. (quicken is to be made alive) they take part in the first ressurection. 2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. don't think of it by our little planet around the sun to govern God in his realm. but we are in the thousand year reign now. if your confused on the his kingdom read Luke 17:20-21 (this will probably be another debate)
John 5:25 verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (This is us taking part in his first resurrection. ) then in John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, :29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, (them that had part in the first resurrection ) unto the resurrection of life;..them done evil ...ect.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by the his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Those that sleep in Christ he will bring there spirit back to quicken them from the grave. Like the thief on the Cross. Christ told him this day you shall be with me in paradise.

Now the last part I Thess. 4:16 ......:and the dead in Christ shall rise first :17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So we wont be staying then for no one thousand years. It will be the end.

 

[Brother Bob]

Good for you Jeremy. peace raying:

 

[Mel Miller]

Don't Touch Me and the Resurrection

Brother Jeremy Slone,

You state half the truth regarding those "beheaded by the Beast"! You failed to explain how they will "reign with
Christ for 1000 years" after they have been beheaded
during the 1260-day Endtime!!

Quote:
________________________________________________
So shall we ever be with the Lord. So we wont be staying then for no one thousand years. It will be the end.
________________________________________________

Revelation is written primarily to fortify the faith and walk
of those who face martyrdom. They receive the highest
possible reward offered to the church ... that of "serving
God in the temple of heaven for 1000 years before the
New Jerusalem comes down upon the earth" !!!

Rev.3:12; Rev.7:15-17; Rev.20:4.

The promise of the 1000 year reign is specifically applied
to the souls of the martyrs while they wait under the Altar
until the last one has been killed and their blood is avenged. They do not begin to reign until Christ comes in
glory and power to "destroy the destroyers of earth"! :wavey:

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

Ok, I believe Christ rose from the grave and so did them that were beheaded, they are not sleeping in christ but 20:4 says they lived and reigned with him a thousand years. So I believe they were resurrected with him in body right now. (The thousand years right now.) well now the other point "I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. "

Now before I go back to that let me establish this point. I take it you must hold to water salvation. I Peter 3:20 Which sometimes were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a-preparing, wherein few, that is, eight SOULS were saved by water. :21 the like figure where unto even baptism doth also now save us. Soul there is not talking so much about soul spirit as it is there being.

Now back to Revelation: he saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. Now I didn't know souls had heads and I didn't know you could cut it off. I believe John saw a vision of them that were beheaded. Souls in the same sense as 8 saved by water in the ark.

Now the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years finished. This is the first resurrection. Now what i said before in my post and this here is the first resurrection. the beheaded reign with him now. as for every body else, and them before then and them now when they die their spirit goes back to heaven and there body is in the grave till the last day and then they will be resurrected in their bodies. The bible teaches the last day. Thats the end of th 1000 years , them in heaven have their 1000 years now and New Jerusalem is reigning now.
already metioned Luke 17:20-21, Colossians 1:13.. also you said in post this is before, well New Jerusalem is told of in scriptures after but it didn't happen after. now the passing with the old and things are new is the old covenant and the new covenant, The Lion and the Lamb shall lay together and that would be Christ satisfying the law. Like Rex said in his post I quoted before and gave an amen."Touch me not" so on I believe he went to the Father, Christ did not break the law but fulfilled it. and then he breathed on them the Holy Ghost. Now this is being born again and they can see New Jerusalem.

to be clear beheaded raised with christ in their new spiritual bodies like unto christs and the rest sleep in Christ and those that believe are made alive. innerman he takes part in the first resurrection, It sounds like you do not believe Christ rose from the dead. If Christ has not risen our faith in in vain. He rose for our justification. Now if you don't see the kingdom of heaven (New Jerusalem) Then one may not be born again. One must be born again to see it. Now I will give this example . Rev. 21:21 it says : and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 2Cor. 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight Rom.8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? hebrew 11:1 Now Faith is the subtance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. I Peter 1:7 that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: that how I see it.
Now Brother Miller you are 86 years old I do not know how long you have studied your view and I know you have. I know Southern Baptist are big on this. I know you probably already know alot about our position you referred to brother Bob by some name. But tell is there a book that tells all the positions that way I can know all the other view points. Its good to know the other side to help defend your own you know. and I really don't know the other side that well. So if you have a book the refers to all positions like mine, yours and what ever else is out there refer it to me please. I joined the Church in Feb. of 2000 and I really need to study more scriptures but its nice to see what one believes and see what the scriptures says about it and I find this a good way to study. Oh ya 1260-day endtime I dont think I have red this or seen it in scriptures before.

 

[Mel Miller]

Don't Touch Me

Dear Bro Jeremy Slone,

May I ask: "What seems to be your problem"?

Quote:
_______________________________________________________________
Now I didn't know souls had heads and I didn't know you could cut it off. I believe John saw a vision of them that were beheaded.
_______________________________________________________________

Are you having a problem with whether the "souls" are headless?

Or do you think they are not "headless" because the "first resurrection"
of their bodies occurs "continuously" the moment any one is killed throughout Church History?

My friend, Please be specific as I can't understand your long dissertation.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I just thought I was making a point. I believe the souls of them that were beheaded have already been resurrected with Christ in body. I have no problem, I was just trying to make my point, Sorry if I offended you, Just like he saw New Jerusalem come down in the vision. But it had already came by the Holy Ghost and will come down for every one that is born of it. This is were I am at with it and I have never tried to defend it before but Now I would like to put more time in study it. Revelations I believe is a very hard book. I always believed that other scriptures would help one understand what is in it. So I consider other scriptures to help me see them knowing it takes God do give understanding. So pray for me.

 

[Mel Miller]

Don't Touch Me

Bro Jeremy,

You do not offend me; but fail to recognize the "first resurrection" cannot apply to those "beheaded" for Christ until the last martyr has been killed.

They are "under the Altar" until the last day. They have a temporary body
until the "first resurrection".

Your Quote:
______________________________________________________________
I believe the souls of them that were beheaded have already been resurrected with Christ in body.
______________________________________________________________

Resurrection of "all believers" will occur on the "last day at the last trump"
until which Christ is just the "firstfruit; afterward they that are Christ's RISE UP IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION AT HIS PRESENCE" ! John 6:38-40; I Cor.15:23,52.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

Mel;

Where does it say their bodies will live and reign with Christ a 1000 years. I can only find where

the souls will live and reign a 1000 years. You stated it was the souls of them under the altar so

when those souls under the altar received their white robes they became a part of the Kingdom

of Christ then not in the future. You keep stating that we are saying headless bodies but I am

say no bodies at all but only the souls as the Bible plainly says "souls of them". Now I believe

the 1000 years is fulfilled and wondered when could that of been. Those souls under the altar

was when the fifth seal was opened and that had to be when the blood of Christ was shed for

they received their white robes and where did they come from. One of the Elders said to John

"who are they that are clothed in white" John said Sir thou knowest. "These are they that came

up through great tribulations having washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the

Lamb. Now they were under the altar without the white robes and something disturbed them.

What could that of been. It was nothing in Heaven for there is nothing unclean over there but I

believe it was the fullness of time when all things both in Heaven and on earth should come

together in one and that being "Jesus". They were given white robes and something had

disturbed them and the robes come from the blood of Christ, so it must of been when Jesus hang

on the cross and they peirced Him in the side and forthwith came blood and water. Now that also

had to be what disturbed the souls that were under the altar for it was time for God to fulfill His

promise to Israel and the Messiah was to come and when Jesus shed His blood God fulfilled His

promise to Israel and those souls under the altar received their white robes and became a part of

the Kingdom of Christ and began to reign. Now it does not say until all them on the earth shall

die but those who would suffer the same as they had. When Jesus arose from the Grave the

1000 years was ended. Let me back up for a second. I studied "when" could satan of been bound

on the earth. Well when Jesus hang on the cross and gave up the Ghost the whole earth turned

dark, earthquakes, veil rent from top to bottom and and as Jesus said "I shook the earth one

time" talking about when He died, I will shake it again "at the end of time". Now when this great

"darkness came on the earth there had to of been such a fear on mankind that no one would

listen to satan at that time so he was bound. The fear of God is what binds satan and that is

even true in our lives. As I said, when Jesus came out of the grave and after His resurrection

many of the bodies of the saints arose with him. Well guess who's bodies those were. None

other than the bodies of those saints under the altar. This being the First resurrection and also is

what the Scripture is talking about when it says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the

1000 years is finished". Now when Jesus comes again it will be a quick work He will do. He will

come in the clouds of Glory with the angels and the Book of Life. The last trump and the voice of

the arch angel will sound and all that are in the grave shall come forth. Unto them that have

done good the resurrection of life and will be called up into the Heaven, unto them that have

done evil will stand before God and be judged and both death and hell shall be cast into the lake

of fire and the smoke of their torment will ascend upward forever and ever. Amen and peace, raying:

 

[Brother Bob]

Mel;
Even the soldier that peirced Him in the side "confessed His name" as all will do in the end of

time when ever knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess. So we see this time

was very similar to the end of time with the darkness, earthquakes, mountains rent, earth shook

and confessions that Jesus is the Christ. Very similar indeed. peace raying:

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

Very interesting brother Bob this just keeps getting bigger for me. Much to study on. another thing I thought about was Enoch. He died not but the Lord took him. So that would not break the scriptures in Revelation 1:5 that said, And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD.

 

[LeBuick]

Very interesting brother Bob this just keeps getting bigger for me. Much to study on. another thing I thought about was Enoch. He died not but the Lord took him. So that would not break the scriptures in Revelation 1:5 that said, And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD.

I believe Enoch will be one of the two witnesses. He and Elijah are two that has yet to see death.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I believe Enoch will be one of the two witnesses. He and Elijah are two that has yet to see death.

well LeBuick that makes me think of another

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. :14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Then chapter 17 in Matthew is good reading on this. 17:11 Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. ( ? John the Baptist? ). :12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Like wise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Could Moses have came in the same spirit as Enoch? I do not know just looking at it.

 

[Mel Miller]

Don't Touch Me

Jeremy and Bob,

Jeremy,

You still have not proved your following quote:
____________________________________________________________
“The souls of the beheaded have already been resurrected with Christ in body”.
____________________________________________________________

It is only the bodies of those “beheaded” that rise up in the first resurrection. The souls don’t rise up since their souls never died.

Bob,

Thursday I repeated my request for clarification on your quote:
____________________________________________________________
"The First resurrection was not until the 1000 years was finished".
____________________________________________________________

You have not clarified this but state that:
____________________________________________________________
“It was the souls only that lived and reigned with Christ a 1000 years”.
____________________________________________________________

You two refuse to recognize their souls do not “live again and reign” with Christ. Their souls do not live again when they come out from under the Altar! Their souls didn't die.

The “first resurrection” applies to their bodies which are raised up ON THE LAST DAY! Just accept the word of the Lord instead of parroting the same words over and over about the souls of these "beheaded" who are still waiting to be raised up and avenged at the “first resurrection”.

John does not say that the “souls of them live and reign”. He simply says that “they lived and reigned 1000 years”. Their souls do not die!


Only on the Last Day and at the Last Trump they will rise up in the “First Resurrection”. Jesus is only the “Firstfruit” of that resurrection. IF He is the "first resurrection" as you kept writing from the beginning, and that resurrection referred to His body, then living again also refers to the bodies of those who are "beheaded".

That’s my final exchange with you two on this thread. You can continue talking to each other in your denial of a literal reign of Christ on the earth after He comes in Person and in glory and power to raise up all believers; in particular those who are killed by the Beast in a final period of 42 months.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

Ok Mel;
But we did not say the souls lived again. I agree their souls did not die and neither does ours. I do say that when their bodies and ours comes out of the grave that our souls will be reunited with our bodies the same as their's were when "the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years was finished". You have no proof of when this 1000 years was. You seem to indicate it means all the dead will live again and it is not talking about all the dead. You refuse to take in to consideration that it says "lived" and reigned" as it had already happened. You do not take in to account that Jesus never talked of a 1000 years yet to come and also how He said the resurrection would be. "The hour is coming when all that are in the grave shall come forth and unto them that have done good the resurrection of life and unto them that have done evil the resurrection of damnation." Where do you get a 1000 years there?

It is speaking of the bodies that were beheaded and when they were resurrected was when Jesus arose from the grave and they were no longer beheaded. There are plenty of people who have died without their heads, arms, legs, I am even missing some parts inside of my body from heart surgery 2 times but I will be whole then. peace Mel; :Fish:

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I look at that vision of his on the beheaded in past tense. Just like him seeing New Jerusalem coming down. He saw what God had done. I see the behead as them that did not worship Image of Baal. New Jerusalem reigning now 1,000 years and they in body resurrected with Christ 1,000 years. Same 1,000 years. They were Eunuchs that were not defiled with woman, virgins. But hey I am going to study this more. I have not studied in its whole. I have picked up parts here and there. I am going to try and see it through. So I am going to study it more and God bless you Mel you have been good for me to make me want to search the scriptures more so thankyou and Pray for me.

 

[Mel Miller]

Bob and Jeremy,

I am keeping my word not to continue on this thread.

HOWEVER,

You base your conclusions, to a large extent, on the fact that "they lived
and reigned" occurs in the past tense.

What you fail to recognize is that the Aorist Tense, Indicative Mood, is the only tense and mood in which one can determine the timing of the event relative to the context!!

After showing that the Martyrs "lived and reigned" beginning at the same time as the Beast and False Prophet are "cast into Hell" (which all agree does not occur until the LAST DAY) John switches from the Aorist INDICATIVE to the Aorist SUBJUNCTIVE to reveal that the 1000 Years
HAVE NOT YET BEGUN!!

The 1000-Year-Reign of the Martyrs as "Pillars in the Temple of heaven"
must begin to take place after Christ casts the Beast into Hell. That reign is not "finished" when He comes for the "first resurrection"! That's when His reign WITH THE MARTYRS IN THE TEMPLE OF HEAVEN ONLY BEGINS!!
It's the highest reward offered to the Church according to Rev.3:10-12.

I refuse to continue quibbling over the meaning of "souls" and "first resurrection". This discussion cannot be resolved unless you admit that
the word "resurrection" must refer to the dead bodies coming to life that were beheaded before the Beast was cast into Hell.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

After showing that the Martyrs "lived and reigned" beginning at the same time as the Beast and False Prophet are "cast into Hell" (which all agree does not occur until the LAST DAY) John switches from the Aorist INDICATIVE to the Aorist SUBJUNCTIVE to reveal that the 1000 Years
HAVE NOT YET BEGUN!!

Are the beast and the false prophet going into hell and then come out again after 1000 years, or are they going into a bottomless pit? Is the bottomless pit Hell, where satan was bound?

Mel;
You have too many resurrections in your theory. According to Jesus Himself "the houlr is coming when "all" that are in the grave shall come forth and unto them that have done good the resurrection of life and unto them that have done evil the resurrection of damnation.

These are the "last days" and maybe in our life time we may see the very "last day".

 

[Mel Miller]

Touch Me Not

Bro Bob,

Two errors in your last post require a response.

First, the Beast is not cast into the Abyss (bottomless pit). He is cast
into Hell. Please read the Biblical text more carefully. Only Satan will be cast into the Abyss for 1000 years. (Both of these Biblical statements occur in the Aorist tense, INDICATIVE mood, to show they happen on the same last day Christ comes to "tread the winepress in anger/wrath".

Now, Jesus spoke of resurrecting "ALL believers on that Last Day". He indicated that "one of every (unbelieving) twosome" who is "willing to die" will be "kept alive" (preserved) physically. Luke 17:33. He also indicated that Jews will "know their kingdom and redemption are near" and that they should "beg to escape and prevail to stand before the Son of Man on that day that comes suddenly, as a snare on all those dwelling on all the face of all the earth". Luke 21:28,31,34-36.

What does that mean? It means millions will be "kept alive" to enter the Millennial Kingdom and that, at the end of the Millennium, billions will have been born to either "inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world" OR be the Goat Nations that are cast into Hell.

Your second error assumes that "an hour" for resurrecting the righteous
MUST occur at the same time as "an hour" for resurrecting the unrighteous dead!

Jesus would not contradict Himself. He did NOT say "THE Hour" but only "an hour". The definite article is missing both times in the Greek text. The same gap of 1000 years applies to the fact that, as of the day the Beast is cast into Hell and the souls of those "beheaded" by the Beast receive their resurrected bodies, THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE JUST BEGINNING.

WHY? John shifts from the Indicative to the SUBJUNCTIVE mood in Rev.20:3,5,7 to reveal what will happen when the thousand years "SHOULD BE FINISHED" ... and when the SECOND DEATH will occur (and therefore when "an hour" finally comes to resurrect the unrighteous as He taught.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:

 

[LeBuick]

Could Moses have came in the same spirit as Enoch? I do not know just looking at it.

My only problem with Moses, is Deut 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Or, are you saying the two witnesses have already come. Moses and John the Baptise?

Read further in the 11th chapter of Rev.

[6] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
[7] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Moses was not killed.

 

[Brother Bob]

Your second error assumes that "an hour" for resurrecting the righteous
MUST occur at the same time as "an hour" for resurrecting the unrighteous dead!

Rev: 17
8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


John 5:
"28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

"29": And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I was just repeating what our Lord said. I figured he knew! peace :Fish: