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What Do These Passages Teach?

Larry the Logger

Larry the Logger

Member
George Antonios said:
  • Tribulation believers can lose their salvation because it's by faith and works.
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Do you think the valley of dry bones (Ezekiel 37:1-14) is going to happen or do you think it's Ezekiel spiritualizing? Focus on the chronological order of things starting with Ezekiel 36:36 through Ezekiel 37:28. Yes, I'm going somewhere with this question.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Larry the Logger said:
Do you think the valley of dry bones (Ezekiel 37:1-14) is going to happen or do you think it's Ezekiel spiritualizing? Focus on the chronological order of things starting with Ezekiel 36:36 through Ezekiel 37:28. Yes, I'm going somewhere with this question.
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Maybe you should start a new thread for this
 
Larry the Logger

Larry the Logger

Member
SavedByGrace said:
Maybe you should start a new thread for this
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Yeah, that's an option but it does address your OP question along with George's statement regarding trib believers. I just think the starting point is important first. Can I stay here for a while unless it goes full frontal rabbit trail? Your call.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
no, it is telling us how sinners are saved, no sinner can be sanctified (made holy) before they are saved, because they are still unholy and sinful!
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I am persuaded God sanctifies with His truth. His truth is either believed ot rejected. Search for yourself.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Larry the Logger said:
Yeah, that's an option but it does address your OP question along with George's statement regarding trib believers. I just think the starting point is important first. Can I stay here for a while unless it goes full frontal rabbit trail? Your call.
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I have no problem, was just thinking that it might get a lot of responses as they are very deep passages from Ezekiel
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
cannot avoid the 2 passages in the OP which you and most of the others have done!
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I wasn't trying to.
SavedByGrace said:
What about the "Brother" that sins unto spiritual death in 1 John?
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I take it that you believe in loss of salvation...

Admittedly, I've had my own troubles with beliefs about that and the passages that seem to indicate it,
but the Lord started to show me the truth about it in the 1980's, and even more within the past 17 years or so.

To state it plainly,
Believers ( God's elect ) cannot sin unto spiritual death ( 1 John 3:1-10 ), because they have been made alive in Christ and have been sealed unto the day of their redemption.
No one can take Christ's sheep out of His hand, because no one is more powerful than God is.
He saves and He keeps.

See John 11:25-26 and many others.

Therefore,
If a person stops believing, then they are a "tare", they never really believed from the heart, and they were never truly born again to begin with.
If a person continues on in belief, hope, growing in their understanding of His word and growing in both grace and knowledge, then that is the spiritual evidence that they are "wheat".

In addition, they are the only ones who will produce true, lasting and spiritual fruit as found in Galatians 5:22-23.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31)

Clearly this passage refers to a saved, born-again person, as no unsaved person can ever be said to have been "sanctified" by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17)

Again, this is referring to true born-agian Christians, as here described as, "brother".

Here we have a clear example, where the Greek ἀδελφός, though masculine, is used for both "brother and sister", though there are some who cannot grasp this!

Do these passages speak of Christians who can ultimately fall away from grace, as the language strongly suggests?
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No, rather refers to those who were professing to be saved, but when tough times came, returned back to the temple and Judaism, revealing never were saved!
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
cannot avoid the 2 passages in the OP which you and most of the others have done! What about the "Brother" that sins unto spiritual death in 1 John?
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The sin unto spiritual death is the rejection of Christ the Son of God. True Christians have received Christ as there savior. This below describes a true Christian.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
MB
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
MB said:
The sin unto spiritual death is the rejection of Christ the Son of God. True Christians have received Christ as there savior. This below describes a true Christian.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
MB
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Believe John was describing a Christian whose sins will bring physical death to them, not spiritual one!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
No, rather refers to those who were professing to be saved, but when tough times came, returned back to the temple and Judaism, revealing never were saved!
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how many unsaved people do you know, who have been "sanctified" by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and remain unsaved? I mean, is this even possible?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Believe John was describing a Christian whose sins will bring physical death to them, not spiritual one!
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you are again reading your "theology" into the passage, note what it says of these in verse 18, "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself". This clearly shows that "spritiual rebirth" is what is meant, and not physical, as you suppose!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
you are again reading your "theology" into the passage, note what it says of these in verse 18, "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself". This clearly shows that "spritiual rebirth" is what is meant, and not physical, as you suppose!
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There is a sin that leads unto death must be physical death, as why would John say to not even pray for such a one?
 
A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
These people are SAVED not unbelievers
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Well, I guess Jesus really isn't able to save to the uttermost, and our hope isn't really in Him, but in the degree of our own faithfulness.

I do that all the time. Put my faith in someone who will let me down.
 
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