What Do These Passages Teach?

[Yeshua1]

how many unsaved people do you know, who have been "sanctified" by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and remain unsaved? I mean, is this even possible?

Whole message of Hebrews is that we now have a much better Covenant with God, and that none shall ever be lost!
It also is warning against merely professing and not actually having Jesus as your lord and Savior!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, I guess Jesus really isn't able to save to the uttermost, and our hope isn't really in Him, but in the degree of our own faithfulness.

I do that all the time. Put my faith in someone who will let me down.

Guess that I missed the translation where Jesus stated that he will raise up all who he has saved, except for?

 

[MB]

Believe John was describing a Christian whose sins will bring physical death to them, not spiritual one!

The only death that matters is spiritual.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

save to the uttermost

the Greek is, παντελής, meaning "completely", the KJV for theological bias, uses "uttermost"! Not the first time

 

[AustinC]

Guess that I missed the translation where Jesus stated that he will raise up all who he has saved, except for?

Yes, John 10:28 is hard to ignore.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

 

[SavedByGrace]

There is a sin that leads unto death must be physical death, as why would John say to not even pray for such a one?

because they are beyond any hope from the Lord! Look at Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins". The "we" is Christians.

 

[AustinC]

Do you think the valley of dry bones (Ezekiel 37:1-14) is going to happen or do you think it's Ezekiel spiritualizing? Focus on the chronological order of things starting with Ezekiel 36:36 through Ezekiel 37:28. Yes, I'm going somewhere with this question.

The valley of dry bones is a metaphorical symbolism used to express God's Sovereign work. From chapter 1, God is revealing his Sovereignty in Ezekiel. If you grasp the covenants, you'll grasp the symbolism.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, John 10:28 is hard to ignore.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

good verse, but cannot be taken by itself. Respond to the 2 in the OP

 

[SavedByGrace]

Put my faith in someone who will let me down

it is WE who let US down, and NOT the Lord! Get your theology right!!!

 

[MB]

no, it is telling us how sinners are saved, no sinner can be sanctified (made holy) before they are saved, because they are still unholy and sinful!

To be holy I agree
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, John 10:28 is hard to ignore.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

I did have once a friend tell me that was true, but God still allows us free will to take ourselves out of His hands!

 

[AustinC]

The OP has bemoaned that both passages have not been addressed. Let's look at 1 John 5:12-21

Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.
And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

The section that the OP picks out is not saying a Christian will go to hell. It's saying that there is a sin that will kill him/her. We, Christians shouldn't pray for that sin to happen. This section isn't about eternal damnation, even though the OP really seems to want to sow doubt in the hearts of the elect. The OP really struggles with grace. He views salvation as a man-made work that God graciously accepts once the person has done all the works required from God so that God can then be gracious. It is only logical that if you think you can win your salvation by repentance, you can therefore lose your salvation by prodigal living. Thus, it seems obvious to me that the OPs misunderstanding of grace leads him down a path of works, not only to be saved, but to maintain salvation. It is a logical fallacy he has made and at this present time he cannot see his error. May God kindly correct that which he misunderstands.

 

[Yeshua1]

good verse, but cannot be taken by itself. Respond to the 2 in the OP

Every saved person has been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the Day of resurrection, are kept by the Father and the Lord Jesus, and a 3 braided cord cannot be broken!

 

[Yeshua1]

The OP has bemoaned that both passages have not been addressed. Let's look at 1 John 5:12-21

Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.
And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

The section that the OP picks out is not saying a Christian will go to hell. It's saying that there is a sin that will kill him/her. We, Christians shouldn't pray for that sin to happen. This section isn't about eternal damnation, even though the OP really seems to want to sow doubt in the hearts of the elect. The OP really struggles with grace. He views salvation as a man-made work that God graciously accepts once the person has done all the works required from God so that God can then be gracious. It is only logical that if you think you can win your salvation by repentance, you can therefore lose your salvation by prodigal living. Thus, it seems obvious to me that the OPs misunderstanding of grace leads him down a path of works, not only to be saved, but to maintain salvation. It is a logical fallacy he has made and at this present time he cannot see his error. May God kindly correct that which he misunderstands.

Salvation must rest upon the Rock who is Jesus Christ, for any other basis would be sinking sand!

 

[Yeshua1]

because they are beyond any hope from the Lord! Look at Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins". The "we" is Christians.

No, he is addressing those who are among them, but are not of them, as they are still trusting in the temple worship and sacrifices to save them!

 

[MB]

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31)

Clearly this passage refers to a saved, born-again person, as no unsaved person can ever be said to have been "sanctified" by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17)

Again, this is referring to true born-agian Christians, as here described as, "brother".

Here we have a clear example, where the Greek ἀδελφός, though masculine, is used for both "brother and sister", though there are some who cannot grasp this!

Do these passages speak of Christians who can ultimately fall away from grace, as the language strongly suggests?

The answer is never the loss of Salvation. It is not ever mentioned in Hebrews. No one claims that the Father does not correct His Children. I've been corrected many times and punished in many different ways. Those who are not Chastised were never His to begin with. Chastisement is what Hebrews is speaking about here verse 10 :26-31.
The sin unto death is the rejection of Christ.
MB

 

[37818]

One of the things Hebrews 10:29 teaches is a person can have been sanctified and not saved. Since those who are saved cannot loose salvation, this then shows sanctification comes before salvation, as per, 1 Peter 1:2, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

 

[Larry the Logger]

The valley of dry bones is a metaphorical symbolism used to express God's Sovereign work. From chapter 1, God is revealing his Sovereignty in Ezekiel. If you grasp the covenants, you'll grasp the symbolism.

Maybe I should start a new thread with my question so you can explain in detail the difference between God's sovereign work contrasted with the past, present, and future state of Israel, which is precisely what Ezekiel is about. Quite a sweeping subject change based on your comment.

 

[SavedByGrace]

One of the things Hebrews 10:26 teaches is a person can have been sanctified and not saved. Since those who are saved cannot loose salvation, this then shows sanctification comes before salvation, as per, 1 Peter 1:2, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

So you are saying that a person can be made holy by the blood of Jesus Christ and remain unsaved? This has got to be the first in the Bible

 

[37818]

So you are saying that a person can be made holy by the blood of Jesus Christ and remain unsaved? This has got to be the first in the Bible

Hebrews 10:29. One must hear God's truth which is holy before anyone can believe to be saved, 1 Peter 1:2, ". . . into . . . and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: . . ."