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What do you believe is required for Salvation?
- Thread starter Thinkingstuff
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Like how Dog
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I beleive I haven't put a limit on God but have expanded his power to be able to save the whole world rather than just a few. And I believe I've kept in line with his Character of Being ultimately Good and Ultimately loving and that he truelly does not intend that any one be destroyed or suffer condemnation. The fact that people reject him isn't a limit of his power but an expression of his character and that in keeping in with love, justices, and soverignty he excersices control over himself. But in the same sense gives entirely of himself by becoming man and offering himself on a cross for our salvation.
However, you are right when you quote Shakespear's Hamlet. I believe the given view of election limits God somewhat and speaks ill of his character.
You deny man's free agency (I don't like the phrase "free will"). God is in control (sovereign) not controlling.
My friend we are going to have to disagree here. It is not pride but with great humility that draws me to Extreme Sovereignty vs any Free Will doctrines.... all in all Christ is the Savior & thats where I put my Faith & Trust. Fight these other guys, fighting doesnt ever convince anyone. however I do believe that doctrine divides & I would never be comfortable in your brand of church.
Call it what you will Dog , its still about you
Tell me dog, do flowers decide to bloom? Do babys decide to grow up? does night decide to become day, does water decide to be wet, does fire decide to be hot? (does Troegs decide to be 16 dollars in New Jersey--Private joke)
Than why do people go to hell?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Because they choose it. No one in hell can say they were forced there.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
No but do so according to natural laws but they are not made in the image of God nor are they self aware.
No natural law again. However, they do decide the level a maturity they want to obtain.
Natural law
Thats a discriptive.
a discriptive as well. None of these things are human, secient, made in God's image. Humans are more than Programing we have the ability to reason and be self aware. These other things are just programing. Big difference
This is the one thing that you've said which actually proves Election in the manner spoken of here. I can't reason against it. Troegs Cost $16 in New Jersey because it is the will and election of God.
Ok I thought you were suggesting you were a universalistic
So for the sake of time, I guess we can agree then that the function & order of life is because of God's choice ... correct?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
No not at all. Which is why I used the term Theoretically. If (it does not but if) the every one in the world chose to believe in Jesus they would be saved. But this is not the case and God refers to his character.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Most of the universe operates by programming. I don't think humans opperate that way. But the programming is God's
you heard me right, I am not getting any disagreement right,
Again here is my statement:
The function & the order in life is because of God's choice! Do I get an amen brothers & sisters?
Again here is my statement:
The function & the order in life is because of God's choice! Do I get an amen brothers & sisters?
so I get an amen from the church in Harrisburg!
So then, if we can agree then that its God's choice in everything else, then how do we come to the matter of mans salvation & make that our choice?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
We are not programs. We are made in the image of God. That alone places us in a special catagory where choice and self awareness and rational play a part. Look I believe that Predestination is taken in its widest meaning in which every Divine decree has appointed all events throughout time. Election is given those who are faithful to their divine call. Whom God has foreknown.
1st are you familiar that the Baptist Church started as a Calvinist Enterprise?
so you are a Free Will ... Oh excuse me a "Free Agency" Baptist.... Could you please go to the NT & in the context of salvation find me passages of Free will or agency so I can read them & study them. List them for me please.
Thanks
Are we then robots? If so, we are without moral responsibility, and that runs counter to the whole concept of man being made in imago Dei.
your begging the question.... Choice & self awareness & rational thinking by whom....us? the Pottery...LOL show me in the bible please where it says that in the NT.
Then we are robots. Great - I'm going to dial a hooker right now, drop some tabs and get loaded - cos my programming said so (and the wife and kids are away!)....? Really...?
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