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What doctrines are essential to the new birth?

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Yeshua1

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Benyamin said:
Interesting replies, everyone. Thanks for your input so far.
I would add, I do believe that eternal security has Old Testament roots, in the form of God's relation to Israel. When God wanted to destroy Israel at Sinai for their rebellion and start over with Moses, Moses interceded for them and asked God not to destroy them because of the covenants sake.

I believe OT souls were saved in the same way as we are today. In short, believing God.
"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him as righteousness".
Of course, they didn't fully understand the sacrificial atonement of the future Messiah. But the important thing is, they believed God, and righteousness was imputed to them.
This is the root of the gospel, I believe. 1 John 5:10 says "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

I think it could be said of us Christians the exact thing which was said of Abraham. By believing in Christ, thus believing the "record that God gave of his Son", we are Believing God, and receiving imputed righteousness.
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They trusted in the promised Coming messiah, while we now trust in him who has already came!
 
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Yeshua1

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George Antonios said:
God imputed righteousness unto Phinehas under the law for a work:
Psa 106:30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.
Psa 106:31 And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

That's what the words of God say.

Paul explicitly told us that the law is not of faith (Gal.3:12) and then quoted Moses in Leviticus 18:5, twice, The man that doeth them shall live in them (Gal.3:12, Rom.10:5).
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After the fall, God never saved any by works of the Law!
 
Benyamin

Benyamin

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George Antonios said:
God imputed righteousness unto Phinehas under the law for a work:
Psa 106:30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.
Psa 106:31 And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

That's what the words of God say.

Paul explicitly told us that the law is not of faith (Gal.3:12) and then quoted Moses in Leviticus 18:5, twice, The man that doeth them shall live in them (Gal.3:12, Rom.10:5).
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The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 deals with this rather specifically. The greater half of all the people mentioned were "under the Law", including Moses himself. It mentions their works, but says it was their faith that justified them.

Did Abel's sacrifice save his soul? Hebrews says Abel performed "by faith", and therefore received the witness that he was righteous. It was saving faith that produced an outward work of obedience. Faith proved by works.

You mentioned "the law is not of faith". That is referring to putting your faith in the Law for salvation, like the Pharisees did, rather than putting your faith in God, producing an obedience to His Law. Was not the Passover part of the Law? Yet Hebrews says "By faith he kept the passover..."

I think the language of Hebrews is clear. Like the verses you cited from Psalms 106, the works committed were simply proof of the faith. Would Phineas have executed judgement, had not his faith compelled him?
 
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Yeshua1

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Benyamin said:
The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 deals with this rather specifically. The greater half of all the people mentioned were "under the Law", including Moses himself. It mentions their works, but says it was their faith that justified them.

Did Abel's sacrifice save his soul? Hebrews says Abel performed "by faith", and therefore received the witness that he was righteous. It was saving faith that produced an outward work of obedience. Faith proved by works.

You mentioned "the law is not of faith". That is referring to putting your faith in the Law for salvation, like the Pharisees did, rather than putting your faith in God, producing an obedience to His Law. Was not the Passover part of the Law? Yet Hebrews says "By faith he kept the passover..."

I think the language of Hebrews is clear. Like the verses you cited from Psalms 106, the works committed were simply proof of the faith. Would Phineas have executed judgement, had not his faith compelled him?
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paul stated that no onbe shall be justified before god by keeping the Law, by their good works in and by themselves, so there cannot be law salvation in the OT,,,
 
Benyamin

Benyamin

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Yeshua1 said:
paul stated that no onbe shall be justified before god by keeping the Law, by their good works in and by themselves, so there cannot be law salvation in the OT,,,
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I fully agree. "By the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified in His sight..."

I am talking about Faith as the only means of salvation. Again, Hebrews says Moses kept the passover [part of the Law] by Faith. It was Moses' faith that justified him. But his obedience to God's command proved his belief. If Moses had not kept the passover, it means he would not have been taking God seriously about what would happen with the angel of death, thus not having faith. His faith compelled his obedience. No difference than today, "Faith without works is dead".
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

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Yeshua1 said:
paul stated that no onbe shall be justified before god by keeping the Law, by their good works in and by themselves, so there cannot be law salvation in the OT,,,
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He said that about the New Testament. He literally said the opposite, along with Moses, about the Old Testament.
 
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Yeshua1

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Benyamin said:
I fully agree. "By the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified in His sight..."

I am talking about Faith as the only means of salvation. Again, Hebrews says Moses kept the passover [part of the Law] by Faith. It was Moses' faith that justified him. But his obedience to God's command proved his belief. If Moses had not kept the passover, it means he would not have been taking God seriously about what would happen with the angel of death, thus not having faith. His faith compelled his obedience. No difference than today, "Faith without works is dead".
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Every person in Hebrews 11 chapter showed to us that they had real faith by doing something for God!
 
37818

37818

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Yeshua1 said:
One book is for the living, so would be physical death, while another book is the lamb's Book of life, where those in there are eternally secured!
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We do not agree. There are only those two OT references about being blotted out because of sin. And only the one NT promise never to be blotted out.
 
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Yeshua1

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37818 said:
We do not agree. There are only those two OT references about being blotted out because of sin. And only the one NT promise never to be blotted out.
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The OT book was referring to those who were physically killed off, taking off the census record so to speak!
 
Benyamin

Benyamin

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Yeshua1 said:
Even in the OT, was it not stated that the just shall live by their faith?
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Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."
Quoted in Hebrews 10:24.
It's always been faith, and never works, by which God is satisfied. We are given ample examples in the OT itself.

Psalm 51
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

God demanded obedience to the Law in OT times. But He did not impute righteousness to the souls who observed the Law. This is very clear from Hebrews.

It has always been a humble, contrite heart of faith, which God demands.

And, "I am the LORD, I change not"
 
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Yeshua1

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Benyamin said:
Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."
Quoted in Hebrews 10:24.
It's always been faith, and never works, by which God is satisfied. We are given ample examples in the OT itself.

Psalm 51
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

God demanded obedience to the Law in OT times. But He did not impute righteousness to the souls who observed the Law. This is very clear from Hebrews.

It has always been a humble, contrite heart of faith, which God demands.

And, "I am the LORD, I change not"
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Micah 6:8
 
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Yeshua1

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George Antonios said:
Words that sound good but fly in the face of dozens of Bible verses. His general "truth" yes. But on what basis he justifies a man does change from age to age. That's Bible.
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That is old time Scofield dispy theology, but not in the Bible!
 
37818

37818

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Yeshua1 said:
The OT book was referring to those who were physically killed off, taking off the census record so to speak!
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No. Both OT references refer to having one's name removed from a book because of sin.. Exodus 32:33, God's book. Psalms 69:27-28, the OT reference to that book by name of the book of Life (NASB) so not to be written with God's righteous.
 
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