What does Christmas mean to you?

[quantumfaith]

Crib, Cross, Crown. I can give you the names, addresses and phone numbers of at least five pastors who took the Christmas story all the way to the Ascension this past Sunday.

How many is "lots"? "Lots" of churches will present the Christmas story.... Is it 100? Is it 10,000? Is it a million? Lots is not a number. Lots is an unsubstantiated opinion. BTW, He came! Don't under estimate the power of the Incarnation. It leads to a Cross and an empty tomb.

How many is "many"? "Many" have flawed or weak...." Is it 100? Is it 10,000? Is it a million? Many is not a number. Many is an unsubstantiated opinion.

I know it's Christmas Eve and all but this post just puts a burr under my saddle. I have been honored to serve under and along side many Godly men called into ministry. The way you started this post is akin to declaring everyone of them incapable of proclaiming the Gospel without some silly opinion of yet another person who snaked $20 out of your pocket.

There's a lot of good preachers and pastors out there that have been FAITHFUL to their calling, proclaiming the whole counsel of Scripture from "In the beginning...." to the Amen of Revelation. They have spent their lives joining Paul when he said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV) Every day from the rising of the sun to the place where it sets proclaiming JESUS in His fullness.

You, sir, do not have a clue. You couldn't get a clue in a field full of clues during clue season.

In spite of your fears, folks are going to hear the plain and simple facts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ tonight. In spite of your misgivings somebody is going to come to Jesus tonight. In spite of the opinion of this Washer feller there's going to be a preacher fumbling and stumbling his way through a sermon tonight and somebody will fall to their knees before the Lord with a broken and contrite heart.



When you get to be a big boy and have a church of your own maybe you can preach through the Christmas season the "right" way. Your Pastor missed the ball? I have a feeling you went to church with a chip on your shoulder. He didn't hit all the points you thought were obligatory so you declared "he missed the ball". Who are you to determine what the Holy Ghost lays on his heart?

I hope you get a ladder for Christmas so you can get down off that high horse you've been riding.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::applause:

 

[evangelist6589]

E-6589,

Merry Christmas. I'm having insomnia again. C'est la vie.

I'm reading over this thread at 2:26 AM and I need to tell you that I've been on this board for close to 14 years. One of the most Christlike and powerfully spoken men on this board has been Padre.

He can say more truth, in strength and love, in a few words than many can say in a book.

For Padre to have spoken to you sharply as he has done means something to me. I had to go back and look at your original post again.

I see his point. You've asserted that the majority of pastors aren't worth their salt in terms of bringing the truth of Jesus Christ in His fullness in a Christmas message. That was harsh, brother, when you don't know any of the pastors on this board nor have heard them preach.

My own pastor brought a wonderful message last Sunday and tonight at the Christmas Eve/Lord's Supper service.

I think your blanket criticism of pastors was hurtful to him and others.

Heaven forbid, don't look to me as an example of meekness nor gentility. I'm not pointing the finger at you at all. I can't.

But Padre ... that's a different story. Take his posts to heart.

Have a great Christmas Day, brother.

Greetings.

He has a right to an opinion as I do as well. But who should I listen too, him or Paul Washer and John MacArthur? The choice is obvious and I also speak from experience having been in a number of churches over the years in 3 states, and from what I read on Facebook by others. Buy my experience extends in these regions.

SF Bay Area CA
Shasta & Tehama County, CA
Greenville County, SC
Denver Metro, CO

I also visited a church in Virginia once

Merry Christmas.

 

[evangelist6589]

I can follow your reasoning. Our local church used to put on plays around Christmas with the manager scenes. It is always amazing three wise men show up when there was neither three nor were they there at the time of the Birth. However, over the years, our Christmastime celebrations are limited to one evening service of assorted Christmas music. We do not do the Easter egg hunts either. So, I do agree that children should be taught the Jesus of the Bible, like everyone else.

Lots of things go through my mind at Christmas. Aside from the event that started the work of Christ on earth, I wonder what went through the minds of Joseph, Mary, and Zechariah during these months. I have often wondered, if I was given one chance to observe an event in the past by some miracle, would I choose the birth of Jesus or the Resurrection. As much as I would like to go to both, if given one chance, I do believe I would pick the Resurection.

Christmas also brings back memories from childhood Christmases. I think there is an element of magic there that is lost as we go through life. As I think about all the things related to Christ, I make it a holy quest to ignore things we have invented around Christmas. I stay away from Walmart and malls. For the few gifts I do buy, I know what I want, enter the store, buy the object, and immediately leave. The commercials on TV are a nuisance to watch (guess everyone saw the Kmart commercial). I do not listen to or care about silver bells, chestnuts on open fires, good king Winchess, Tiny Tim, flying reindeer, or the drummer boy.

One of the other things that comes to mind is giving to others in need. One thing I think we all could learn is that these folks usually need help all year long. Hunger does not just come around at the holidays.

I was in a Reformed church some time ago that taught the children the same way they taught the adults. Pastor AL's reasoning was that most churches dumb down the message and make wild ASSUMPTIONS that children cannot learn nor comprehend. This church did not do easter egg hunts, nor did they commercialize Christmas. Christmas at this church was filled with scripture and theological richness. The gospel was clearly preached and sinners knew they needed a savior. I miss that church, although it was in another state I wish I could attend a like-minded church, but only the Holy Spirit can persuade my wife that the gospel and rich doctrine and theology is far more important than people being nice, and having friends in a church. You put God first and He will bless you.

 

[saturneptune]

Crib, Cross, Crown. I can give you the names, addresses and phone numbers of at least five pastors who took the Christmas story all the way to the Ascension this past Sunday.

How many is "lots"? "Lots" of churches will present the Christmas story.... Is it 100? Is it 10,000? Is it a million? Lots is not a number. Lots is an unsubstantiated opinion. BTW, He came! Don't under estimate the power of the Incarnation. It leads to a Cross and an empty tomb.

How many is "many"? "Many" have flawed or weak...." Is it 100? Is it 10,000? Is it a million? Many is not a number. Many is an unsubstantiated opinion.

I know it's Christmas Eve and all but this post just puts a burr under my saddle. I have been honored to serve under and along side many Godly men called into ministry. The way you started this post is akin to declaring everyone of them incapable of proclaiming the Gospel without some silly opinion of yet another person who snaked $20 out of your pocket.

There's a lot of good preachers and pastors out there that have been FAITHFUL to their calling, proclaiming the whole counsel of Scripture from "In the beginning...." to the Amen of Revelation. They have spent their lives joining Paul when he said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV) Every day from the rising of the sun to the place where it sets proclaiming JESUS in His fullness.

You, sir, do not have a clue. You couldn't get a clue in a field full of clues during clue season.

In spite of your fears, folks are going to hear the plain and simple facts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ tonight. In spite of your misgivings somebody is going to come to Jesus tonight. In spite of the opinion of this Washer feller there's going to be a preacher fumbling and stumbling his way through a sermon tonight and somebody will fall to their knees before the Lord with a broken and contrite heart.



When you get to be a big boy and have a church of your own maybe you can preach through the Christmas season the "right" way. Your Pastor missed the ball? I have a feeling you went to church with a chip on your shoulder. He didn't hit all the points you thought were obligatory so you declared "he missed the ball". Who are you to determine what the Holy Ghost lays on his heart?

I hope you get a ladder for Christmas so you can get down off that high horse you've been riding.

Padre,

First of all, I want to wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas. Your post caught my eye very sharply, and it is one of the best expressed posts from the heart I have seen on this board. I have long admired your posts, and would be honored to serve in a church under you as our pastor.

Paul Washer has been to our local church before, and he will never return. His message to our church, which has been addressed many times in other threads, was nothing but cruel, mean, and totally devoid of any hint or respect of the faith of folks who have been Christians for decades. I have watched his talks online several times since his trip to our church several years ago, and he has not changed one bit. His tactic is to whip the crowd into a frenzy about the Gospel, then proceed to tell everyone they are lost. You have this guy in the spotlight where he belongs, in the entertainment field.

God's love, purposes and will are perfect. He uses all sorts of people to tell His message. Some are better orators than others, but the fact is, God is the power behind their message, and someone was brought to salvation through all these messages. It is also a fact, that as one continues to preach that message, they become better at it.

 

[quantumfaith]

Greetings.

He has a right to an opinion as I do as well. But who should I listen too, him or Paul Washer and John MacArthur? The choice is obvious and I also speak from experience having been in a number of churches over the years in 3 states, and from what I read on Facebook by others. Buy my experience extends in these regions.

SF Bay Area CA
Shasta & Tehama County, CA
Greenville County, SC
Denver Metro, CO

I also visited a church in Virginia once

Merry Christmas.

The choice should be obvious (Padre), but I am betting given what I have observed from you, this will simply not be the case. You were very correct one thing here.....having to do with opinion. Also remember, YOURS too is ONLY OPINION.

 

[saturneptune]

I was in a Reformed church some time ago that taught the children the same way they taught the adults. Pastor AL's reasoning was that most churches dumb down the message and make wild ASSUMPTIONS that children cannot learn nor comprehend. This church did not do easter egg hunts, nor did they commercialize Christmas. Christmas at this church was filled with scripture and theological richness. The gospel was clearly preached and sinners knew they needed a savior. I miss that church, although it was in another state I wish I could attend a like-minded church, but only the Holy Spirit can persuade my wife that the gospel and rich doctrine and theology is far more important than people being nice, and having friends in a church. You put God first and He will bless you.

I appreciate the kind words, and agree with your zeal for a pure Gospel message. However, Paul Washer is the last example I would use as an instrument of spreading the Gospel. God uses all types of people to accomplish His purposes. He purposely uses those of us who are disadvantaged in social status, speaking and many other areas, to make clear to all, that the advancement of His Word is coming from His efforts, not any man's.

 

[evangelist6589]

Padre,

First of all, I want to wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas. Your post caught my eye very sharply, and it is one of the best expressed posts from the heart I have seen on this board. I have long admired your posts, and would be honored to serve in a church under you as our pastor.

Paul Washer has been to our local church before, and he will never return. His message to our church, which has been addressed many times in other threads, was nothing but cruel, mean, and totally devoid of any hint or respect of the faith of folks who have been Christians for decades. I have watched his talks online several times since his trip to our church several years ago, and he has not changed one bit. His tactic is to whip the crowd into a frenzy about the Gospel, then proceed to tell everyone they are lost. You have this guy in the spotlight where he belongs, in the entertainment field.

God's love, purposes and will are perfect. He uses all sorts of people to tell His message. Some are better orators than others, but the fact is, God is the power behind their message, and someone was brought to salvation through all these messages. It is also a fact, that as one continues to preach that message, they become better at it.

Washer does not desire people to end up in Hell and preaches the full gospel. I used to think low of Paul and even once sent him a critical email. This was all before I gave him a honest chance. Once I gave him a honest chance I listened to several of his sermons and am reading one of his books and I have fallen in love with him! He is the backbone behind the Way of the Master theology no question!

While Erwin Lutzer and Charles Stanley may be correct in that someone whom is a Christian can fall into the sin of homosexuality or another sin and still be saved as only God knows. I wont agree with Washer in saying that people are automatically not saved, as I leave that to God. So I have docked off 5% points in my grade of his book which will get a 95% so far.

 

[evangelist6589]

I appreciate the kind words, and agree with your zeal for a pure Gospel message. However, Paul Washer is the last example I would use as an instrument of spreading the Gospel. God uses all types of people to accomplish His purposes. He purposely uses those of us who are disadvantaged in social status, speaking and many other areas, to make clear to all, that the advancement of His Word is coming from His efforts, not any man's.

You should give him another chance. I too was ticked at him for a while until I gave him another chance. What original made me mad was his tone he preached in a sermon to some youth at some event. His words were good, but his tone was not and the manor in which he communicated was not appropriate. However no man is perfect. Paul has impressed me in his book I am reading.

 

[preacher4truth]

You should give him another chance. I too was ticked at him for a while until I gave him another chance. What original made me mad was his tone he preached in a sermon to some youth at some event. His words were good, but his tone was not and the manor in which he communicated was not appropriate. However no man is perfect. Paul has impressed me in his book I am reading.

I watched an update to the 'Shocking Youth Message'. Washer felt bad after he had preached it. Then, after time rolled on he received calls, letters, messages and met many who were converted due to how he said it and what he said. :thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

I watched an update to the 'Shocking Youth Message'. Washer felt bad after he had preached it. Then, after time rolled on he received calls, letters, messages and met many who were converted due to how he said it and what he said. :thumbs:

Amen.. However I will add that IFB evangelists, Greg Laurie and others also boast of true conversions at their events. I believe God does and will save people in such events. He has a different approach with everyone. I for one was saved in a Weslyian church. But it was after that I got a better grasp on things and theology. However I got saved in 1982 and back in the days when Weslyian churches preached better as today most have gone the seeker friendly road.

But what baffles me and perhaps you can explain this. Why do some IFB evangelists and pastors preach hard on sin when they are Arminian based? Yes I know of IFB evangelists that hit sin as hard as Paul Washer. However Fire & Brimstone seems to be the motif. I do not endorse that style because it strives to get a fear filled convert and a emotional response from people whom will go to the alter in fear and maybe not because they truly are saved, but only God knows.

 

[salzer mtn]

Lots of things go through my mind at Christmas. Aside from the event that started the work of Christ on earth, I wonder what went through the minds of Joseph, Mary, and Zechariah during these months. I have often wondered, if I was given one chance to observe an event in the past by some miracle, would I choose the birth of Jesus or the Resurrection. As much as I would like to go to both, if given one chance, I do believe I would pick the Resurection.
.

I would pick Calvary, I think it would do every Christian good to witness first hand the suffering Christ went through to put away sin.

 

[JonC]

Amen!!! Well said. Merry Christmas.

Thank you & Marry Christmas to you.

 

[percho]

I had a nephew 44 years old die in a car wreck day before yesterday. In the prime of life, and a very wonderful person and of course we ask why. And we ask things like why at this time of the year.

But to be very honest with you one of the first things I thought was how this happening and when it happened caused me to think, Christmas. The very reason for this day is because man dies. He is sold under sin unto death and that is the very reason the Son of God was born of woman, born under the law.

To redeem us who are sold under sin unto death that we might have life as adopted sons of God.

The Son of God had to come in the flesh and die in the flesh, and be made alive in the Spirit, that we also might have life in the Spirit.

 

[padredurand]

I had a nephew 44 years old die in a car wreck day before yesterday. In the prime of life, and a very wonderful person and of course we ask why. And we ask things like why at this time of the year.

But to be very honest with you one of the first things I thought was how this happening and when it happened caused me to think, Christmas. The very reason for this day is because man dies. He is sold under sin unto death and that is the very reason the Son of God was born of woman, born under the law.

To redeem us who are sold under sin unto death that we might have life as adopted sons of God.

The Son of God had to come in the flesh and die in the flesh, and be made alive in the Spirit, that we also might have life in the Spirit.

My prayers for your family. Thank you for being so open about such a tragic moment and speaking of the peace that comes from Him alone.

 

[evangelist6589]

I had a nephew 44 years old die in a car wreck day before yesterday. In the prime of life, and a very wonderful person and of course we ask why. And we ask things like why at this time of the year.

But to be very honest with you one of the first things I thought was how this happening and when it happened caused me to think, Christmas. The very reason for this day is because man dies. He is sold under sin unto death and that is the very reason the Son of God was born of woman, born under the law.

To redeem us who are sold under sin unto death that we might have life as adopted sons of God.

The Son of God had to come in the flesh and die in the flesh, and be made alive in the Spirit, that we also might have life in the Spirit.

This is why it is so crucial to preach repentance from sin and the full gospel message this time of year. Do not hold back... People die everyday and the next may be you, me or someone you know. Sad to hear of your nephew, my prayers go out to you.

 

[prophet]

What does it mean to you? Lots of churches will do a excellent job presenting the Christmas story, but will not do as much of a job at preaching on the REASON why He came into the world and what sin really means. This is because many have a flawed or weak understanding of the doctrine of Regeneration which impacts their evangelism methodology according to Paul Washer. So tell me what does it mean to you? Is christmas all about you getting a new TV, iPad, clothes, or other toys? Is Christmas all about you spending time with your family? Is Christmas all about you giving gifts to others? While nothing wrong with these things, they do not address the central tenant of Christmas which is about Christ and the reason he came into the world. So I challenge you to present this message when you preach your christmas sermons or be attuned to it when you hear them.

Maybe the third time will be the charm but the pastor in our church has missed the ball twice in a row, and I am praying tonight he will not. The strategy of Jesus was always to be frank, direct, and to the point when witnessing and so should we be in our christmas presentations. We need not side-step sin and when we offer the gospel it must hit sin right on the head so people will see the REASON why we have Christmas.

Why do you have to mention Paul Washer? You dont have your own copy of the Scriptures, or indwelling Spirit of God?

 

[evangelist6589]

Why do you have to mention Paul Washer? You dont have your own copy of the Scriptures, or indwelling Spirit of God?

Ephesians 4:11-14
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

What a beautiful passage. Do you not believe it?

 

[padredurand]

Ephesians 4:11-14
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

What a beautiful passage. Do you not believe it?

I believe ALL of it especially, "As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;"
(Ephesians 4:14 NAS77)

You read a single book and then present yourself as an expert on every topic. You read a book from a big fish in a very small pond and then cowardly call out your pastor because he did not preach the message you thought he should preach. I believe you are a small, jealous man who knows the only time you will ever stand in a pulpit is if they leave the church unlocked at night. I've watched your youtube videos. I'm sure I wouldn't want you behind my pulpit even then.

BTW, you never answered my earlier question to you. I even promised you a quarter. Who said this?

:"Those soft little hands, fashioned by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb, were made so that nails might be driven through them. Those baby feet, pink and unable to walk, would one day walk up a dusty hill to be nailed to a cross. That sweet infant's head with sparkling eyes and eager mouth was formed so that someday men might force a crown of thorns onto it. That tender body, warm and soft, wrapped in swaddling clothes, would one day be ripped open by a spear. Jesus was born to die.”

It was your bff John MacArthur. You read two of his books so, like buddies do, you call him Mac. I know a half dozen pastors who preached on that very subject last night. That is in the Ichabod northeast!

Your anecdotal experience and a cheap paperback is not enough to bring such a harsh indictment against FAITHFUL men of God. You claim your gifting is evangelism. Leave exhortation to those who have been called.

So then let us pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
Romans 14:19 NAS77

 

[evangelist6589]

Paul Washer & MacArthur

Its such a shame that others will not give those great men a chance.

 

[Revmitchell]

What does Paul Washer know about the methodologies of churches? How many has he actually served along side? Maybe he should spend more time out in the trenches rather than spend all this time bashing everyone else churches. The same could be said for the op. Neither one of them knows what in the world they are talking about.