What does Christmas mean to you?

[preacher4truth]

The OP has stated that "lots" and "many" preachers are teaching an incomplete and false Gospel. You seem to agree with this statement. How many is "lots" and "many"? Can you quantify it? Is it a number such as 3017 churches? Is it more? Is it a percentage such as 62%? Is it more?

And he's correct. We have several apostate church's in this area, but from what I'm gathering it seems you'd support them. Others here have the same in their communities. The Episcopal church contains much apostasy. So do many Presbyterians. So do some Baptists. We see the ordination of h*m*s*xuals, marrying of them, and more, and the departing from the faith and from the Word of God. We have WoF movements, and other charismatic doctrines of demons. And you want evidence? From what I've learned of you, as long as these are preaching it is OK, as you've alluded to this in the past.

I contend that the vast majority of preachers proclaim the full Gospel from Genesis to Revelation and everything in between.

I disagree with what you contend. Since you make a dogmatic statement, can you give proof of yours being true, or is the burden of proof only for those who oppose your error?

Yours is wishful thinking about the church padre. But you're not mainstream, correct, you're not actually a Baptist church, isn't that right? I recall looking at your website and it stated about your church not being in the mainstream (or something similar).

He called out his current pastor. He has declared his parent's pastor to be a hypocrite. What evidence does he have but his own opinion. What did Jesus say?

Jesus called out hypocrites as well. Paul called out false teachers. Peter did. James did. Jude did. ev6589 is in good company and not amongst the bleeding heart pacifists.

Matthew 18:16 NAS77
16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

Where are the other witnesses against "lots" and "many"? Where are the other witnesses against his own pastor? Where are the other witnesses against his parent's pastor?

There are none. That is discord.

So you're placing evangelist6589 under church discipline????

Can we do the same for you in that you stalk him and denigrate him and use ad hominem on him? Or are you above that?

No, yours is actually discord. Name calling, denigrating his character, calling him haughty. He's not in your church and the thing in Matthew is for he and his church, not for BB. This is a debate forum, not a congregation.

I stand with John on his assessment of the problem in 'churchs'. It's that bad.

 

[quantumfaith]

And he's correct. We have several apostate church's in this area, but from what I'm gathering it seems you'd support them. Others here have the same in their communities. The Episcopal church contains much apostasy. So do many Presbyterians. So do some Baptists. We see the ordination of h*m*s*xuals, marrying of them, and more, and the departing from the faith and from the Word of God. We have WoF movements, and other charismatic doctrines of demons. And you want evidence? From what I've learned of you, as long as these are preaching it is OK, as you've alluded to this in the past.



I disagree with what you contend. Since you make a dogmatic statement, can you give proof of yours being true, or is the burden of proof only for those who oppose your error?

Yours is wishful thinking about the church padre. But you're not mainstream, correct, you're not actually a Baptist church, isn't that right? I recall looking at your website and it stated about your church not being in the mainstream (or something similar).



Jesus called out hypocrites as well. Paul called out false teachers. Peter did. James did. Jude did. ev6589 is in good company and not amongst the bleeding heart pacifists.



So you're placing evangelist6589 under church discipline????

Can we do the same for you in that you stalk him and denigrate him and use ad hominem on him? Or are you above that?

No, yours is actually discord. Name calling, denigrating his character, calling him haughty. He's not in your church and the thing in Matthew is for he and his church, not for BB. This is a debate forum, not a congregation.

I stand with John on his assessment of the problem in 'churchs'. It's that bad.

YOU are the most discordant person on this board. Although you have some competition, you outshine them.

 

[padredurand]

And he's correct. We have several apostate church's in this area, but from what I'm gathering it seems you'd support them. Others here have the same in their communities. The Episcopal church contains much apostasy. So do many Presbyterians. So do some Baptists. We see the ordination of h*m*s*xuals, marrying of them, and more, and the departing from the faith and from the Word of God. We have WoF movements, and other charismatic doctrines of demons. And you want evidence? From what I've learned of you, as long as these are preaching it is OK, as you've alluded to this in the past.

From what he's written his church is none of these. He stated his parents attended a church that was reformed.

Jesus called out hypocrites as well. Paul called out false teachers. Peter did. James did. Jude did. ev6589 is in good company and not amongst the bleeding heart pacifists.

His accusations have included those outside the apostate church. He has found fault with every church he has attended including those he agrees with doctrinally.

So you're placing evangelist6589 under church discipline????

I have no authority to do that. He has placed himself under no authority but his own. He won't join the church he attends so there is no accountability there either.

I stand with John on his assessment of the problem in 'churchs'. It's that bad.

Good! Stand with him. Perhaps he will come under your wing and learn from you. I mean this sincerely. There are wonderful churches out there with sound Bible teachers in their pulpits. Folks are getting saved! There will come a time when America will no longer tolerate any church and the persecution we see around the world will be at our doorstep. We don't need to start from within.

God will redeem each and every one of His elect regardless of where He finds them whether it be an apostate church, a street corner or that elusive perfect church he cannot find. I can see four steeples from my living room window and have no confidence that the Gospel is being preached in any of them. I pray for them to come under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. If you wanted to go for a ride I could take you to meet pastors who seek neither the applause or approval of men and preached nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. They have spent themselves for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and depend wholly on Him for strength to go on another day. They are in the city meeting in massive buildings or rented space in a warehouse. They are in the countryside and everywhere between.

They trust "the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do." (Hebrews 4:12-13 NAS77)

My evidence is anecdotal. I know that. We live in a time when we should seek out those faithful ones and lift them up in prayer.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes, OK, and you practice the same as well to those who don't hold your view, and then do the same toward him in particular. I'm defending him against your stalking him from thread to thread, belittling him, calling him hauteur &c. Grow up, it's quite immature.



Yes, you do, and division. Just as you think he is guilty, so are you.



I believe the Scriptural usage of harvesting chaff is to consider another that is being referred to as chaff as being lost, correct?



His accusations are not unfounded, you just simply don't like his doctrine or these facts. Names don't have to be attached to what is well know as going on across our nation and world. Now, as far as that goes there is some broad brushing in there of course, but the state of the 'church' he argues is not far fetched.

He has a valid point and is on the right track. And yes, I get it, you're not anywhere near done sowing discord, belittling, accusing, causing division.

I do not elevate Comfort above the word. Comfort I love for he preaches the word and handles scripture correctly in general. At the moment I am reading four books and they are The Gospel According to Jesus, The Gospel Call and True Conversion, and the Way of the Master, and The Way of the Master Minute. I love these authors as they handle the word well and with precision and care. They call out the people that poster loves and they do name names, but they do so in grace. You know what? Sunday when I was open air preaching a lady yelled at me that I was a bully. She insisted on calling me a bully and would not disagree. You know why? The reason was because I said that a JW had another gospel. The JW was proud and so he did not get grace and his false gospel was condemned.

If Padre, Mitchell, Quantum, or that grammar poster where there I bet they would have been on her side!!!!

 

[evangelist6589]

And he's correct. We have several apostate church's in this area, but from what I'm gathering it seems you'd support them. Others here have the same in their communities. The Episcopal church contains much apostasy. So do many Presbyterians. So do some Baptists. We see the ordination of h*m*s*xuals, marrying of them, and more, and the departing from the faith and from the Word of God. We have WoF movements, and other charismatic doctrines of demons. And you want evidence? From what I've learned of you, as long as these are preaching it is OK, as you've alluded to this in the past.



I disagree with what you contend. Since you make a dogmatic statement, can you give proof of yours being true, or is the burden of proof only for those who oppose your error?

Yours is wishful thinking about the church padre. But you're not mainstream, correct, you're not actually a Baptist church, isn't that right? I recall looking at your website and it stated about your church not being in the mainstream (or something similar).



Jesus called out hypocrites as well. Paul called out false teachers. Peter did. James did. Jude did. ev6589 is in good company and not amongst the bleeding heart pacifists.



So you're placing evangelist6589 under church discipline????

Can we do the same for you in that you stalk him and denigrate him and use ad hominem on him? Or are you above that?

No, yours is actually discord. Name calling, denigrating his character, calling him haughty. He's not in your church and the thing in Matthew is for he and his church, not for BB. This is a debate forum, not a congregation.

I stand with John on his assessment of the problem in 'churchs'. It's that bad.

Thank you brother. I would never in a million years go to a church that Padre pastors.

I have mentioned this but Padre does not listen. I like the character of my present pastor, but he so often fails to preach on SIN, REPENTANCE, JUDGMENT, JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST, REGENERATION, THE HOLINESS OF GOD and so forth. The pastor is a good man, treats people with kindness, but he misses the entire point!!!

My parents church is Reformed and the pastor preaches EXCELLENT. However my parents and others have testified that he and his family love to gossip about others in the church, backbite, elevate themselves over others, and dog people they do not agree with, which sadly is also like minded Reformed. I won't tell you what he did to a fellow Reformed Bible church. Many have left the church and it has shrunk allot over the years.

It would be great to get a pastor with character that also can preach. In the past I have had such pastors in like minded Reformed churches. However they were in other states.

 

[evangelist6589]

From what he's written his church is none of these. He stated his parents attended a church that was reformed.



His accusations have included those outside the apostate church. He has found fault with every church he has attended including those he agrees with doctrinally.



I have no authority to do that. He has placed himself under no authority but his own. He won't join the church he attends so there is no accountability there either.



Good! Stand with him. Perhaps he will come under your wing and learn from you. I mean this sincerely. There are wonderful churches out there with sound Bible teachers in their pulpits. Folks are getting saved! There will come a time when America will no longer tolerate any church and the persecution we see around the world will be at our doorstep. We don't need to start from within.

God will redeem each and every one of His elect regardless of where He finds them whether it be an apostate church, a street corner or that elusive perfect church he cannot find. I can see four steeples from my living room window and have no confidence that the Gospel is being preached in any of them. I pray for them to come under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. If you wanted to go for a ride I could take you to meet pastors who seek neither the applause or approval of men and preached nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. They have spent themselves for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and depend wholly on Him for strength to go on another day. They are in the city meeting in massive buildings or rented space in a warehouse. They are in the countryside and everywhere between.

They trust "the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do." (Hebrews 4:12-13 NAS77)

My evidence is anecdotal. I know that. We live in a time when we should seek out those faithful ones and lift them up in prayer.

I have had enough of your constant ad hominem attacks on me. You need to learn to address arguments and not personally attack me.

 

[quantumfaith]

Thank you brother. I would never in a million years go to a church that Padre pastors.

I have mentioned this but Padre does not listen. I like the character of my present pastor, but he so often fails to preach on SIN, REPENTANCE, JUDGMENT, JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST, REGENERATION, THE HOLINESS OF GOD and so forth. The pastor is a good man, treats people with kindness, but he misses the entire point!!!

My parents church is Reformed and the pastor preaches EXCELLENT. However my parents and others have testified that he and his family love to gossip about others in the church, backbite, elevate themselves over others, and dog people they do not agree with, which sadly is also like minded Reformed. I won't tell you what he did to a fellow Reformed Bible church. Many have left the church and it has shrunk allot over the years.

It would be great to get a pastor with character that also can preach. In the past I have had such pastors in like minded Reformed churches. However they were in other states.

I can only deduce that this would be because of the sentiment expressed by Jack Nicholas in "A Few Good Men" ......."You can't handle the Truth" that would be expressed in the pulpit from Padre and men like him called and equipped by God to communicate His Word.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thank you brother. I would never in a million years go to a church that Padre pastors.

I have mentioned this but Padre does not listen. I like the character of my present pastor, but he so often fails to preach on SIN, REPENTANCE, JUDGMENT, JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST, REGENERATION, THE HOLINESS OF GOD and so forth. The pastor is a good man, treats people with kindness, but he misses the entire point!!!

My parents church is Reformed and the pastor preaches EXCELLENT. However my parents and others have testified that he and his family love to gossip about others in the church, backbite, elevate themselves over others, and dog people they do not agree with, which sadly is also like minded Reformed. I won't tell you what he did to a fellow Reformed Bible church. Many have left the church and it has shrunk allot over the years.

It would be great to get a pastor with character that also can preach. In the past I have had such pastors in like minded Reformed churches. However they were in other states.

As you well know some have to watch what they preach, and adjust their message to incorporate and endorse 'all' who preach as if they do no harm to the Gospel or Kingdom. These are no different than the pastor you've mentioned.

Yes, you are correct, there are pastors who practice what you've stated. They have success and numbers to maintain and this is at least one reason why some won't preach against the apostasy we see today. In their hearts perhaps they are aware of other subjective reasons as only the Holy Spirit can show.

I will add this as well, we see these types of errors among those who believe 'Bible only' theology, who adopt some supra spiritual attitude and loathe other works and/or repudiate and minimalize these things. These typically mock those who employ the works of other brethren (pastors, evangelists, teachers Eph. 4:11-12) yet they themselves offer support for apostate preachers at the same time. These facts are obvious in this thread.

Keep the faith brother. :thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

As you well know some have to watch what they preach, and adjust their message to incorporate and endorse 'all' who preach as if they do no harm to the Gospel or Kingdom. These are no different than the pastor you've mentioned.

Yes, you are correct, there are pastors who practice what you've stated. They have success and numbers to maintain and this is at least one reason why some won't preach against the apostasy we see today. In their hearts perhaps they are aware of other subjective reasons as only the Holy Spirit can show.

I will add this as well, we see these types of errors among those who believe 'Bible only' theology, who adopt some supra spiritual attitude and loathe other works and/or repudiate and minimalize these things. These typically mock those who employ the works of other brethren (pastors, evangelists, teachers Eph. 4:11-12) yet they themselves offer support for apostate preachers at the same time. These facts are obvious in this thread.

Keep the faith brother. :thumbs:

I would rather be in a church with a pastor that preaches the word of God, yet is not the nicest person and struggles in other areas, over a warm, charming, fuzzy, and comfortable person whom does not preach the word.

Bible Only theology types are all over this board. If I understand you correctly they are people like Padre whom would denounce people that read the books of Comfort, Washer, and Mac and say that I am elevating them over the Bible or something of the sort, when all these men are doing is teaching me the Bible and helping me understand things! And you know what??? It sure works as I look up verses they mention with my table ESV/NIV at my side. I have been accused of idolizing Mac by some on other websites only because I confronted their false WOF theology. Yet they themselves idolize various false WOF teachers, they always will point the finger at me with Mac because I have mentioned a book Mac wrote.

Well I am gonna take a rest and gonna get back to reading the Gospel According to Jesus. Its a great book that I wish Quantum and Padre would read. mac is all about creating churches where the Bible is taught and not churches where sinners feel comfortable. People living in sin cannot be comfortable in a place that confronts their paths and hell bound eternal destiny. The loving thing would be to TELL THEM the truth. I am sad about Andy Stanley and his ministry. His father Charles is not Reformed but at least he preaches on sin, hell, and judgment. I have podcasts where Charles hits the nail right on the head. Perhaps I could give those messages to Andy Stanley.

 

[evangelist6589]

I can only deduce that this would be because of the sentiment expressed by Jack Nicholas in "A Few Good Men" ......."You can't handle the Truth" that would be expressed in the pulpit from Padre and men like him called and equipped by God to communicate His Word.

I was gonna say something, but have decided to get back to reading the Gospel According to Jesus.

 

[preacher4truth]

I was gonna say something, but have decided to get back to reading the Gospel According to Jesus.

:thumbs:

Great idea. Pay attention to your Christ, your Scriptures, your prayers, your brothers, your wife, those who sharpen your iron, your books, not those who sow discord and attempt to get you off track. God bless.

 

[evangelist6589]

:thumbs:

Great idea. Pay attention to your Christ, your Scriptures, your prayers, your brothers, your wife, those who sharpen your iron, your books, not those who sow discord and attempt to get you off track. God bless.

Amen. Finished a chapter in the Gospel According to Jesus and The Way of the Master. Comfort hit the nail on the head and even quoted Martin Llyod Jones. He is one I need to get some books from. So many preachers these days just wrongly ASSUME people know they are sinners and they know what it means. People do not know this, because people think they are good and righteous.

Mac has been explaining the conversion Jesus had with Nicodemus in John 3 and explaining redemption. Again I am sad at the multitude of pastors that do not understand. But God has his grace as he did on me.

Well back to reading..

 

[Scarlett O.]

The JW was proud and so he did not get grace and his false gospel was condemned.

If Padre, Mitchell, Quantum, or that grammar poster where there I bet they would have been on her side!!!!

Really, you compare these men to Jehovah's Witnesses? Why?

Thank you brother. I would never in a million years go to a church that Padre pastors.

Wow! I'd go in heart beat to hear that man preach. I'd go and listen to RevMitchell, preacher4truth, Dr. Bob, and lots of others here.

If I were walking down the street and you were street-preaching, I'd stop and listen to you, too.

I would give any man who is a preacher on this board at least one chance before I blatantly dismissed him.

 

[Iconoclast]

Revmitchell

What does Paul Washer know about methodologies of churches? Who specifically are these churches he is talking about? And what is it that makes him a great role model?

from wiki-
Paul David Washer (born 1961) is the Founder/Director & Missions Coordinator of HeartCry Missionary Society[1] which supports indigenous missionary work.
Washer says he had a born again experience while studying to become an oil and gas lawyer at the University of Texas. Upon graduation, he attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and achieved a Master of Divinity degree

He moved to Peru where he became a missionary proclaiming the gospel for 10 years, after which time he returned to the United States

that will not stop you from speaking evil of him however.

 

[padredurand]

So many preachers these days just wrongly ASSUME people know they are sinners and they know what it means. People do not know this, because people think they are good and righteous.

Mac has been explaining the conversion Jesus had with Nicodemus in John 3 and explaining redemption. Again I am sad at the multitude of pastors that do not understand. But God has his grace as he did on me.

Well back to reading..

And right back to bashing pastors. A multitude of pastors DO understand. They understand the Blood bought task before them.

London Confession:

3. The purest churches under Heaven are subject to mixture and error, and some have degenerated so much that they have ceased to be churches of Christ and have become synagogues of Satan. Nevertheless Christ always has had, and always will (to the end of time) have a kingdom in this world, made up of those who believe in Him, and make profession of His name.

Even if the total number was down to one your energies are better spent in prayerful support of the one than disdain for the rest.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And right back to bashing pastors. A multitude of pastors DO understand. They understand the Blood bought task before them.

London Confession:

3. The purest churches under Heaven are subject to mixture and error, and some have degenerated so much that they have ceased to be churches of Christ and have become synagogues of Satan. Nevertheless Christ always has had, and always will (to the end of time) have a kingdom in this world, made up of those who believe in Him, and make profession of His name.

Even if the total number was down to one your energies are better spent in prayerful support of the one than disdain for the rest.

No Pa, distain is necessary. Without it, we are not on our guard against false teachers and charlitans on the pulput. There are a whole lot of these in the world misreprenting God, teaching social gospel, disreguarding doctrine yada yada. They need to be exposed and yanked from their posts and not coddled.

 

[Revmitchell]

Disdain is not necessary and it just shows the hearts of some Calvinists on this board.

You guys should study ann's posts. She could be a good mentor for you guys. She is a prime example of a cal who does not feel the need to be an attack dog instead of these Westboro Baptist type post we are seeing from some cals.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Disdain is not necessary and it just shows the hearts of some Calvinists on this board.

You guys should study ann's posts. She could be a good mentor for you guys. She is a prime example of a cal who does not feel the need to be an attack dog.

Disdain most certainly is when it comes to false teachers......they should be pulled out of their pulpits and have to live the rest of their lives as shoe salesmen (full commission) & smelling feet for the rest of their days.

As far as studying Ann.......why? It isnt Ann's place, she isnt a preacher or a pastor. With no malaise towards Ann or any other women ---cause women are often my heroes, one would expect that of a women, not a man. Real men dont pussy foot around with apostasy & easy believe-ism. They stand their ground & fight the good fight. Maybe you need to reevaluate your own self .......maybe take another look at Chesty Puller & Al Gray. These men were no shrinking violets.....they were intense & motivated.

 

[preacher4truth]

Disdain is not necessary and it just shows the hearts of some Calvinists on this board.

You have an entire forests worth of logs in each of your eyes. Your accusations are unfounded drivel.

You guys should study ann's posts.

No disrespect to Ann but she doesn't engage in much theological debates, so your point is moot. You should also avoid them as well, as when you do engage in them your true colors show and you go on your daily sowing of discord, name calling, belittling and causing division tirade. Stick with news and hobbies.

By the way, you should study your posts and repent. :thumbs:

She could be a good mentor for you guys. She is a prime example of a cal who does not feel the need to be an attack dog instead of these Westboro Baptist type post we are seeing from some cals.

Says the anti-cal attack dog himself. Pure hypocrisy.

 

[preacher4truth]

Disdain most certainly is when it comes to false teachers......they should be pulled out of their pulpits and have to live the rest of their lives as shoe salesmen (full commission) & smelling feet for the rest of their days.

Exactly. The way he acts perhaps he should give it up and sell shoes.

As far as studying Ann.......why? It isnt Ann's place, she isnt a preacher or a pastor. With no malaise towards Ann or any other women ---cause women are often my heroes, one would expect that of a women, not a man.

It is typically men who engage in debate, and you're correct, false teachers shouldn't be tolerated and there are many on the BB who follow the anti-cal/arminian man-centric philosophy.

Real men dont pussy foot around with apostasy & easy believe-ism. They stand their ground & fight the good fight.

Exactly, hence Galatians 1:8ff. To stand against these and rebuke them is met with shock and awe and countered with the PC accusation of lack of tolerance and love nonsense, an worldly trait that these who hold to this false theology have picked up.

Maybe you need to reevaluate your own self .......maybe take another look at Chesty Puller & Al Gray. These men were no shrinking violets.....they were intense & motivated.

True. And he's motivated by sowing discord, broad brushing, accusing, holding grudges, displaying malice and other works of the flesh. He's not interested in truth, it's all the former.