What does ETERNAL mean?

[Amy.G]

Simple question.


1Jo*5:10 ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo*5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo*5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo*5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.




John says that if we believe in the Son, we have eternal life. This is the promise of God.


So what does John mean when he says "eternal" life?

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Amy.G...as an Orthodox Christian, I have NO problems with St. John saying that we may know we have eternal life...i don't live in fear that one day i'm going to wake-up and God has turned his back on me and i'm now lost...

I also believe St. John when he says in 1 John 5:2 and 5:3...in regard to keeping Christ's commandments and that His commandments are not grievous...as long as I strive to do that and keep a repentant heart and run the race as St. Paul puts it, then yes, I can be assured of eternal life.

It's when I start to turn my back on Christ and His commandments and start denying Christ and who he is, is when I begin to jeopardize my eternal life...

In XC
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[David Michael Harris]

Simple question.
1Jo*5:10 ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo*5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo*5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo*5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John says that if we believe in the Son, we have eternal life. This is the promise of God.
So what does John mean when he says "eternal" life?

I think it means we abide for ever. That we will never cease to exist.
Our lives are but a mist Amy. Read James.

 

[DHK]

Amy.G...as an Orthodox Christian, I have NO problems with St. John saying that we may know we have eternal life...i don't live in fear that one day i'm going to wake-up and God has turned his back on me and i'm now lost...

I also believe St. John when he says in 1 John 5:2 and 5:3...in regard to keeping Christ's commandments and that His commandments are not grievous...as long as I strive to do that and keep a repentant heart and run the race as St. Paul puts it, then yes, I can be assured of eternal life.

It's when I start to turn my back on Christ and His commandments and start denying Christ and who he is, is when I begin to jeopardize my eternal life...

In XC
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When I start...is when I begin to jeopardize my eternal life.
Thus if you are honest with yourself you don't believe in eternal life.
Eternal life cannot be jeopardized.
Eternal life can never end or jeopardized--that is threatened to end.
If it could then eternal would not be eternal, it would only be temporal, and the One who gave it as a gift would be lying. Or you would be accusing Him of lying.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

When I start...is when I begin to jeopardize my eternal life.
Thus if you are honest with yourself you don't believe in eternal life.
Eternal life cannot be jeopardized.
Eternal life can never end or jeopardized--that is threatened to end.
If it could then eternal would not be eternal, it would only be temporal, and the One who gave it as a gift would be lying. Or you would be accusing Him of lying.

ahhh, no...i'm completely honest with myself DHK...i know that just b/c i believe on the name of the Son of God; i didn't just receive a 'get out of jail free card'.

i'm still chief among sinners and i still have freewill...that wasn't taken away from me and like any gift, i can give it back if i do so choose.

St. John's letter (1 John) was written to Christians he knew and converted to Christianity living in a pagan environment...his letter speaks to me just the same...a Christian living in a pagan environment, where i'm bombarded on a daily basis by temptations of sin and people telling me that there's no God in various methods...BUT, I can know, that if I keep Christ's commandments and believe on the name of the Son of God, I can have eternal life

Why did St. John even waste his time writing to these Christians IF they were so secure in their salvation? I mean once St. John lead them down the Roman's road of Salvation and they accepted Christ, isn't that enough? They're in right?

Keep in mind too, that St. John's Letter is written to Christians...not to a community of unbelievers and St. John and telling them HOW to be saved...St. John already covered that when he was with them...

In XC
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[David Michael Harris]

ahhh, no...i'm completely honest with myself DHK...i know that just b/c i believe on the name of the Son of God; i didn't just receive a 'get out of jail free card'.

i'm still chief among sinners and i still have freewill...that wasn't taken away from me and like any gift, i can give it back if i do so choose.

St. John's letter (1 John) was written to Christians he knew and converted to Christianity living in a pagan environment...his letter speaks to me just the same...a Christian living in a pagan environment, where i'm bombarded on a daily basis by temptations of sin and people telling me that there's no God in various methods...BUT, I can know, that if I keep Christ's commandments and believe on the name of the Son of God, I can have eternal life

Why did St. John even waste his time writing to these Christians IF they were so secure in their salvation? I mean once St. John lead them down the Roman's road of Salvation and they accepted Christ, isn't that enough? They're in right?

Keep in mind too, that St. John's Letter is written to Christians...not to a community of unbelievers and St. John and telling them HOW to be saved...St. John already covered that when he was with them...

In XC
-

Paul and Jesus talked about a one time thing. Passing from death to life.

Must admit though exegesis can get confusing at times.

 

[Amy.G]

.....i didn't just receive a 'get out of jail free card'.

Yes you did. When you believed on and trusted in Christ, He circumcised you. He cut away the spirit from the flesh of sin. Therefore, now there is NO condemnation. Your spirit has been justified and set apart for God. In the flesh, we still sin, but because God has also put His Spirit in us, we fall under conviction for our sin and will seek forgiveness.
Paul explains this battle in Romans 7.



In your view, eternal is only eternal "if".....

That is not grace, that is works. No man can be saved by works.

 

[Steven2006]

Everyone has an eternal existence. The difference is knowing how to have "eternal life" vs eternal death.

 

[DHK]

ahhh, no...i'm completely honest with myself DHK...i know that just b/c i believe on the name of the Son of God; i didn't just receive a 'get out of jail free card'.

It is John's First Epistle that emphasizes eternal security more than any other. He was the one who wrote:

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
--You either have it or you don't. There is no sitting on the fence. There is no such thing as "eternal life being jeopardized." It can't happen. You can't have "half of the Son of God." You either have him or you don't.

i'm still chief among sinners and i still have freewill...that wasn't taken away from me and like any gift, i can give it back if i do so choose.

I am a sinner saved by grace. I can still sin. But God will not kick me out of his family just as my earthly father will not kick me out of his. I have free will in both cases.

St. John's letter (1 John) was written to Christians he knew and converted to Christianity living in a pagan environment...his letter speaks to me just the same...a Christian living in a pagan environment, where i'm bombarded on a daily basis by temptations of sin and people telling me that there's no God in various methods...BUT, I can know, that if I keep Christ's commandments and believe on the name of the Son of God, I can have eternal life

That is not the intent of his letter.
His letter was to let them know of the evidences that they can know of the surety of their salvation. Thus the word "know" (in its various forms) is the key word of the epistle. It is used more than any other word. One can know for sure that they are saved; that they have the Son. They don't have to keep on striving. They know they already have salvation.

Why did St. John even waste his time writing to these Christians IF they were so secure in their salvation? I mean once St. John lead them down the Roman's road of Salvation and they accepted Christ, isn't that enough? They're in right?

There is more in the Bible than just the doctrine of eternal security, and there is more in First John than just eternal security though that is stressed. Maybe he is writing to people like you who need to be assured of their salvation. In fact that was one of his purposes, as I have already mentioned: evidences of how one can be assured of their salvation. He sets them all out for them.

Keep in mind too, that St. John's Letter is written to Christians...not to a community of unbelievers and St. John and telling them HOW to be saved...St. John already covered that when he was with them...

Of course he is writing to Christians. Who else would he write to? The RCC? Hardly! Eternal security is a doctrine, but not the doctrine of salvation. You are very much confused, and it is not the only thing spoken of in five chapters of the epistle. Why don't you try reading the book before you try commenting on it?

 

[Amy.G]

Everyone has an eternal existence. The difference is knowing how to have "eternal life" vs eternal death.

The scripture being discussed here is referring to eternal life, not death. What does eternal life mean? Can it become temporal?

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Maybe he is writing to people like you who need to be assured of their salvation. In fact that was one of his purposes, as I have already mentioned: evidences of how one can be assured of their salvation. He sets them all out for them.

So what are Christ's commandments St. John speaks of in 1 John 5:2-3 that St. John says to keep?

In XC
-

 

[Steven2006]

The scripture being discussed here is referring to eternal life, not death. What does eternal life mean? Can it become temporal?

That is exactly my point. I believe that was the context in which John wrote. I don't believe they believed at that time it was temporal, but rather were seeking to "know" how to have eternal life rather than eternal death.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt". Dan 12:2

 

[DHK]

So what are Christ's commandments St. John speaks of in 1 John 5:2-3 that St. John says to keep?

In XC
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1 John 5:1-3 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
--Let's not omit verse one to keep things in context.
He is writing to those that are believers, those that are born again. This does not come by baptism, but by faith and faith alone. Those that believe in Christ are born again. There is the topic of this chapter. Now what are some of the evidences before us. What are the fruit of a born again child of God?

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
--First, a born again child of God loves the children of God.
Second, Not only does he love God, because of that love of God he will keep his commandments. This is the fruit of the Spirit spoken of in Gal.5:22,23. It does not mean that a believer can never sin. Generally speaking a believer will show this fruit in his life and keep the commandments of God--that is the commands that Jesus gave His disciples while on earth.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
--His commandments are not grievous. Look at the commands given in the NT as a whole. They are not grievous. Compare them to keeping all of the OT law. They are not grievous. No man could keep the law. But keep in mind what John also said in his second chapter:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
--His will is that we sin not. But if we do we have an advocate. He is Jesus Christ. We can go to him at any time. He will forgive our sin. We will never lose our salvation. It is secure in Christ.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: I am a sinner saved by grace. I can still sin. But God will not kick me out of his family just as my earthly father will not kick me out of his. I have free will in both cases.

HP: Your free will is no free will at all. If ones eternal destiny is chosen by God, and once chosen cannot be revoked, you have accepted a necessitated theology of which free will is an absolute chimera.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: evidences of how one can be assured of their salvation. He sets them all out for them.

HP: He certainly did and no where does the writer establish OSAS period nor do we know because of the definition of the word eternal. We are told precisely how to be assured of our salvation and it directly relates to the Holy Spirit’s witness as testified by our conscious as proven by our formed intents and subsequent actions.

1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 ¶ For IF our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, THEN we we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, BECAUSE WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, and DO those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 ¶ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And HE THAT KEEPETH HIS COMMANDMENTS dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[DHK]

HP: Your free will is no free will at all. If ones eternal destiny is chosen by God, and once chosen cannot be revoked, you have accepted a necessitated theology of which free will is an absolute chimera.

My eternal destiny is based on my choice to trust Christ as my Saviour. The fact that Christ knew that I would do so before the foundation of the world has no bearing on my choice. He did not force my hand. His omniscience does not contradict free will. You don't understand election, neither foreknowledge, neither omniscience. Neither do you understand how they work hand in hand with the free will of man. Neither do you want to understand. You want to stay in your little box of theology with your eyes closed. You are not open to the teaching of the Word of God. I don't even know why you post here.

Look at the logic (no logic) of your statement.
"Your free will is no free will at all."
If it is free will it is free will.

 

[DHK]

HP: He certainly did and no where does the writer establish OSAS period nor do we know because of the definition of the word eternal. We are told precisely how to be assured of our salvation and it directly relates to the Holy Spirit’s witness as testified by our conscious as proven by our formed intents and subsequent actions.

You stop in chapter 3.
Go on and read chapter 5, and then come and discuss it with me.

 

[RAdam]

My eternal destiny is based on my choice to trust Christ as my Saviour.

So you are going to heaven because of yourself

 

[DHK]

So you are going to heaven because of yourself

Jesus paid it all; All to him I owe.
Sin has left a crimson stain.
He washed it white as snow.

I am going to heaven because I put my faith in the sacrifice of Christ. Salvation is all of God. He paid it all. That is grace.
But salvation is by faith and faith alone.
By grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
I am saved through faith.
God's salvation accepted through faith.

 

[Amy.G]

HP, the question is: What does eternal mean?


Can you answer that?