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What happened to expository preaching
- Thread starter stilllearning
- Start date
The Bible says to focus on Jesus the auther and finisher of our faith. My goal is to follow Him as he set the example for ministry and discipleship.Revmitchell said:Yea I will stay away from the Harry Fosdick stuff and stick to the gospel.
There was a time when I heard the same thing you wrote until I really thought about what Jesus did and then I could no longer ignore it. When I had a close friend go to a country with a famine and tell me about people dying because they did not have enough to eat and realize the ministry he has had for about 25 years among them. He has won many to Christ, started churches, preached everywhere he went, and educated people. Some have masters degrees and are in government leadership positions today winning people to Christ. He was in a communist country at the time and now they have more freedom than here.
There is the gospel according to Matthew. Mark, Luke, and John but then there is the gospel according to you.
Luke 14:13 "But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, He said to him, "One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Luke 19:8 Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much."
James 2:5, “Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?”
Perhaps sometime you should get your feet wet and be a part of World Changers and see what actually happens when you truly serve people expecting nothing. Students lives change and the homeowners are given the gospel. Every home I worked on was able to give out the gospel because the owners asked why, and God opened the door. I quickly learned the power of God's love and serving in His name.Revmitchell said:Yea I will stay away from the Harry Fosdick stuff and stick to the gospel.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi RustySword
You pointed out.......
Thanks for the info.
I always keep repeating to myself, “I don’t care what the people want to here”.
Galatians 1:10
“For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.”
You pointed out.......
“There was a change in attitude among the churchgoers, or at least homiletics professors ASSUMED there was a change in attitude. Rather than expositing the Word - explaining what it meant and applying it for the purpose it was written - there was a belief among key homiletics professors that Christians didn't necessarily care so much about what the Bible was actually saying. They were more concerned with how to "live the Christian life." As a result, the key question preachers were answering about a passage was not "what does this mean" but "so what?" - even if it was the type of passage that was more doctrinal than practical.”
Thanks for the info.
I always keep repeating to myself, “I don’t care what the people want to here”.
Galatians 1:10
“For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.”
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi Pastor Larry
You said........
--------------------------------------------------
A good example of this, is when we see “preachers”, using the Bible as a prop, by starting off a message, by quoting one verse of Scripture, and then spend the next 30 minutes, simply telling stories.
2 Timothy 4:4
“And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
You said........
This is exactly the point, that I was trying to make in my OP.“I think the dearth of expository preaching is because of the low view of God's word that many pastors have, where the Bible becomes a prop for them.........”
--------------------------------------------------
A good example of this, is when we see “preachers”, using the Bible as a prop, by starting off a message, by quoting one verse of Scripture, and then spend the next 30 minutes, simply telling stories.
2 Timothy 4:4
“And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi Steven2006
You said.......
Guilty as charged.
You said.......
“This thread proves one thing. For some no matter how you slice it, it's always about the KJV.”
Guilty as charged.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi Jim1999
You said.......
All of us, need to be open for the LORD to direct us, in what ever direction He wants us to go.
(As long as it is Biblical!)
You said.......
I agree. We shouldn’t be locking "ourselves" into anything.“Don't lock yourself in or else you may also be missing the problematic areas of one's life.”
All of us, need to be open for the LORD to direct us, in what ever direction He wants us to go.
(As long as it is Biblical!)
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi annsni
Nice to hear from you again.
You said........
Well, my opinion, doesn’t matter at all.
I do praise the Lord, that you have a pastor who is “a man of the Book”.
--------------------------------------------------
Keep praying for him, and following his leadership, and the Lord will bless your socks right off your feet.
Hebrews 13:17
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.”
Nice to hear from you again.
You said........
And then you asked.......“Oh - and while my pastor has always used the KJV(for the past 10 years or so), he's using the NIV for Romans.”
“So, what do you think?”
Well, my opinion, doesn’t matter at all.
I do praise the Lord, that you have a pastor who is “a man of the Book”.
--------------------------------------------------
Keep praying for him, and following his leadership, and the Lord will bless your socks right off your feet.
Hebrews 13:17
“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.”
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi Rippon
You said........
I will do some study, of these famous men.
You said........
Thanks for the heads up.“Two famous Reformed,expository preachers, have been James Boice and Walter Chantry.Both used the NIV throughout their preaching ministries.”
I will do some study, of these famous men.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hello TCGreek
You quoted sag38......
Oh, indeed I am. But sag’s sarcasm, is uncalled for.
You quoted sag38......
Then you said........“There's a lot a pastor, conservative pastors, who preach expository sermons, who don't use the KJV. Funny, they don't have I Opinions 2:13 where it must read, "Thou shalt use the KJV only." Nor II Opinions which says "Thou shalt only preach expository sermons." I guess SL must have I and II Opinions in his KJV. But, I can't find these books in my KJV.”
“Stilllearning should be still learning”
Oh, indeed I am. But sag’s sarcasm, is uncalled for.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi SBCPreacher
You said........
You don’t disappoint me a bit.
You are not the only one: Many others do.
You said........
“I don't use the KJV - I preach from the NKJV, and I preach expository sermons. Sorry to disappoint you.”
You don’t disappoint me a bit.
You are not the only one: Many others do.
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi gb93433
You said.........
Praise the Lord; He is using you to “change the world”, one soul at a time.
But sometimes, ministries do not have the visible results, that you have experienced....
John 3:26-27
V.26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all [men] come to him.
V.27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
All of us, can only be obedient to the Lord’s instructions for us, and leave the results to Him.
You said.........
“Perhaps sometime you should get your feet wet and be a part of World Changers and see what actually happens when you truly serve people expecting nothing. Students lives change and the homeowners are given the gospel. Every home I worked on was able to give out the gospel because the owners asked why, and God opened the door. I quickly learned the power of God's love and serving in His name.”
Praise the Lord; He is using you to “change the world”, one soul at a time.
But sometimes, ministries do not have the visible results, that you have experienced....
John 3:26-27
V.26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all [men] come to him.
V.27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
All of us, can only be obedient to the Lord’s instructions for us, and leave the results to Him.
I'll echo the sentiments of others here...
The version choice, IMO, has little to do with whether or not expository preaching is the mode used.
There are two KJVO churches in our area that I'm somewhat familiar with. Neither do expository preaching. The scripture used is a "jumping off spot," and little more.
For one of those churches, I truly think it's an experience issue. The young pastor simply doesn't know any other way to preach. The second...well, his methodology best accomodates ranting, which is what he pretty much does.
Having said all that...my point is, it's not a function of one's preferred version of Scripture.
The version choice, IMO, has little to do with whether or not expository preaching is the mode used.
There are two KJVO churches in our area that I'm somewhat familiar with. Neither do expository preaching. The scripture used is a "jumping off spot," and little more.
For one of those churches, I truly think it's an experience issue. The young pastor simply doesn't know any other way to preach. The second...well, his methodology best accomodates ranting, which is what he pretty much does.
Having said all that...my point is, it's not a function of one's preferred version of Scripture.
Replying to the original question about expository preaching, I offer this -
I preach verse-by-verse (expositionally) through the Bible (yes, the KJV) in our service - on Sunday mornings, we're in Ephesians right now, Colossians on Sunday evenings, and Genesis on Wednesday nights. The emphasis I try to make is- "What does it say and how can God apply it to our daily lives?"
We even have recordings of these studies on our website for people to listen to:
http://www.southheightsbaptist.com/mediaministry.html
And, yes, as someone said, there is a price to pay for this -
1. Where we live, your church doesn't grow very fast. Most people 'round here want entertainment, not practical, solid food from the Word.
2. You offend people sometimes. By going v-b-v, you can't honestly sidestep passages that you know will stick in somebody's craw.
3. You have a hard time keeping some folks - when you get to a passage that deals with a particular area in their life that God wants them to deal with, they often would rather shoot the messenger than get right with God.
4. It takes LOTS of time to properly prepare, and, in small churches, that means the pastor does more than study, visit, marry, and bury folks, so expositional preaching adds to that burden.
That said, it's still THE way to go, in my opinion! I wouldn't even be in church at all had I not stumbled into a church where the pastor actually TAUGHT me something from the pulpit. Thinking he made a mistake (I was used to lots of screaming, yelling, meddling, and judging, but very little "meat"- baptists did a lot of that kind of preaching back then), I went back the next week.
Within a couple of weeks, I was hooked - I really WANTED to LEARN the Word of God!
Incidentally, no one else in our town or immediate area preaches expositionally...most are caught up in the Emergent Church, entertainment (aka "worship & praise"), and other such nonsense. The people here do no hunger and thirst after righteousness - only that which is temporal.
I preach verse-by-verse (expositionally) through the Bible (yes, the KJV) in our service - on Sunday mornings, we're in Ephesians right now, Colossians on Sunday evenings, and Genesis on Wednesday nights. The emphasis I try to make is- "What does it say and how can God apply it to our daily lives?"
We even have recordings of these studies on our website for people to listen to:
http://www.southheightsbaptist.com/mediaministry.html
And, yes, as someone said, there is a price to pay for this -
1. Where we live, your church doesn't grow very fast. Most people 'round here want entertainment, not practical, solid food from the Word.
2. You offend people sometimes. By going v-b-v, you can't honestly sidestep passages that you know will stick in somebody's craw.
3. You have a hard time keeping some folks - when you get to a passage that deals with a particular area in their life that God wants them to deal with, they often would rather shoot the messenger than get right with God.
4. It takes LOTS of time to properly prepare, and, in small churches, that means the pastor does more than study, visit, marry, and bury folks, so expositional preaching adds to that burden.
That said, it's still THE way to go, in my opinion! I wouldn't even be in church at all had I not stumbled into a church where the pastor actually TAUGHT me something from the pulpit. Thinking he made a mistake (I was used to lots of screaming, yelling, meddling, and judging, but very little "meat"- baptists did a lot of that kind of preaching back then), I went back the next week.
Within a couple of weeks, I was hooked - I really WANTED to LEARN the Word of God!
Incidentally, no one else in our town or immediate area preaches expositionally...most are caught up in the Emergent Church, entertainment (aka "worship & praise"), and other such nonsense. The people here do no hunger and thirst after righteousness - only that which is temporal.
As the old saying goes, "To thine own self be true."
Some can preach expository style, some can preach textual style, and some combine the two. One cannot say the other is better.
I used to preach to a group of WWII veterans who met each year since 1946. I preach a topical sermon. It is fitting for that group.
In my own church, I preached expositionally in evening and textually in morning, but I wouldn't dream of going through an entire book week after week after week.
By the way, I find expositional preaching to take less study time than any of my topical or textual sermons. I am sure a computer back then would have cut study time down by at least 20 hours a week.
Cheers, and to each his own, we cannot all be Spurgeons. Besides, we would prolly only copy his errors.
Jim
Some can preach expository style, some can preach textual style, and some combine the two. One cannot say the other is better.
I used to preach to a group of WWII veterans who met each year since 1946. I preach a topical sermon. It is fitting for that group.
In my own church, I preached expositionally in evening and textually in morning, but I wouldn't dream of going through an entire book week after week after week.
By the way, I find expositional preaching to take less study time than any of my topical or textual sermons. I am sure a computer back then would have cut study time down by at least 20 hours a week.
Cheers, and to each his own, we cannot all be Spurgeons. Besides, we would prolly only copy his errors.
Jim
stilllearning
Active Member
Hello Todd W. White
Nice to hear from you, and thank you for your encouraging response.
My Church, is the only one, within about a 70mile radius, that actually preaches God’s Word(here in the middle of the New Mexico desert).
And just as you have experienced, most people here, are not interested in Bible doctrine.
--------------------------------------------------
Keep up the fight and try not to get discouraged.
Nice to hear from you, and thank you for your encouraging response.
My Church, is the only one, within about a 70mile radius, that actually preaches God’s Word(here in the middle of the New Mexico desert).
And just as you have experienced, most people here, are not interested in Bible doctrine.
--------------------------------------------------
Keep up the fight and try not to get discouraged.
Todd W. White said:Incidentally, no one else in our town or immediate area preaches expositionally...most are caught up in the Emergent Church, entertainment (aka "worship & praise"), and other such nonsense. The people here do no hunger and thirst after righteousness - only that which is temporal.
Please do not say that those who do praise and worship are doing "entertainment". We have praise and worship - my husband is the worship pastor - and we very much hunger and thirst after righteousness. My husband's goal is to use worship to preach the Word and right now as I type, he's writing another song. He's in his studio with his keyboard and computer, a mic and a music stand - with his Bible open. His songs, while they are "modern", are straight from the Word of God.
Hi annsi,
You said,
I didn't say that - I am talking about the people around here. I wasn't commenting on what you folks do where you live. The folks here, mostly because of the charismaniac movement, which is BIG TIME ACTIVE around these parts, are substituting what they think is true praise and worship for true praise and worship, but, in reality, it's nothing more than entertainment.
As a former Minister of Music, the problem, from my perspective, with attempting to use worship (I presume you mean music) to preach the Word is that you're trying to do something that with music that music was not deigned by God to do. Nowhere in Scripture will you find God condoning or commanding we use music to reach the uncoverted, nor is music for the purpose of preaching the Word: that is, and has always been, reserved for the verbal, ie, spoken, presentation of the Word.
One of the big problems with the current generation of church pastors and musicians is NOT the fact that the music they are using is "modern" (except in the case of rhythm-based music). The real problem is they are substituting the world's standard for music in an attempt to bootleg the Gospel to those who are lost. But, the same people who would never use prostitutes to reach the immoral, nor cocaine or heroin to reach the drug addicts, will advocate using that which speaks to the flesh in music to reach out to the lost and/or attempt to minister to the saved.
Just because the words come straight out of the Bible, if the music itself violates biblical principles, it actually renders the effect of the words ineffectual.
The idea of tongues as a "sign" of the filling of the Holy Spirit goes hand-in-hand with the idea that music is a tool to reach the lost and/or speak the Word to the saved.
Neither viewpoint is biblical.
You said,
Please do not say that those who do praise and worship are doing "entertainment".
I didn't say that - I am talking about the people around here. I wasn't commenting on what you folks do where you live. The folks here, mostly because of the charismaniac movement, which is BIG TIME ACTIVE around these parts, are substituting what they think is true praise and worship for true praise and worship, but, in reality, it's nothing more than entertainment.
As a former Minister of Music, the problem, from my perspective, with attempting to use worship (I presume you mean music) to preach the Word is that you're trying to do something that with music that music was not deigned by God to do. Nowhere in Scripture will you find God condoning or commanding we use music to reach the uncoverted, nor is music for the purpose of preaching the Word: that is, and has always been, reserved for the verbal, ie, spoken, presentation of the Word.
One of the big problems with the current generation of church pastors and musicians is NOT the fact that the music they are using is "modern" (except in the case of rhythm-based music). The real problem is they are substituting the world's standard for music in an attempt to bootleg the Gospel to those who are lost. But, the same people who would never use prostitutes to reach the immoral, nor cocaine or heroin to reach the drug addicts, will advocate using that which speaks to the flesh in music to reach out to the lost and/or attempt to minister to the saved.
Just because the words come straight out of the Bible, if the music itself violates biblical principles, it actually renders the effect of the words ineffectual.
The idea of tongues as a "sign" of the filling of the Holy Spirit goes hand-in-hand with the idea that music is a tool to reach the lost and/or speak the Word to the saved.
Neither viewpoint is biblical.
Last edited by a moderator:
Todd W. White said:Hi annsi,
You said,
I didn't say that - I am talking about the people around here. I wasn't commenting on what you folks do where you live. The folks here, mostly because of the charismaniac movement, which is BIG TIME ACTIVE around these parts, are substituting what they think is true praise and worship for true praise and worship, but, in reality, it's nothing more than entertainment.
As a former Minister of Music, the problem, from my perspective, with attempting to use worship (I presume you mean music) to preach the Word is that you're trying to do something that with music that music was not deigned by God to do. Nowhere in Scripture will you find God condoning or commanding we use music to reach the uncoverted, nor is music for the purpose of preaching the Word: that is, and has always been, reserved for the verbal, ie, spoken, presentation of the Word.
One of the big problems with the current generation of church pastors and musicians is NOT the fact that the music they are using is "modern" (except in the case of rhythm-based music). The real problem is they are substituting the world's standard for music in an attempt to bootleg the Gospel to those who are lost. But, the same people who would never use prostitutes to reach the immoral, nor cocaine or heroin to reach the drug addicts, will advocate using that which speaks to the flesh in music to reach out to the lost and/or attempt to minister to the saved.
Just because the words come straight out of the Bible, if the music itself violates biblical principles, it actually renders the effect of the words ineffectual.
The idea of tongues as a "sign" of the filling of the Holy Spirit goes hand-in-hand with the idea that music is a tool to reach the lost and/or speak the Word to the saved.
Neither viewpoint is biblical.
While I agree that some of the charasmatic stuff is quite showy, I think you have failed to understand the true heart of worship. I understand that you don't like rhythm-based music but all music is rhythm based - even the little sing/songs that my children have done as babies. I also strongly disagree that the words are ineffectual but again, when you have your mind closed to what worship is about, you will have wrong views of it.
I guess we'll have to just disagree.
Someone needs to truly define what worship means. I quote Dr. D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones from his book on Preaching & Preachers:
However, there has been this tendency; as preaching has waned,,,,,,,they have introduced responsive reading, and more and more music and singing and chanting....all these thing as preaching waned....still worse has been the increase in the element of entertainment in public worship - the use of films and the introduction of more and more singing; the reading of the word and prayer shortened drastically, but more and more time given to singing. You have a song leader as a new kind of official in the church, and he conducts the singing and is supposed to produce the atmosphere! This is a part of the whole depreciation of the message....."
He offers much more, but I can't type the whole chapter.
Cheers, Dr. Lloyd-Jones, rest in peace, mate,
Jim
However, there has been this tendency; as preaching has waned,,,,,,,they have introduced responsive reading, and more and more music and singing and chanting....all these thing as preaching waned....still worse has been the increase in the element of entertainment in public worship - the use of films and the introduction of more and more singing; the reading of the word and prayer shortened drastically, but more and more time given to singing. You have a song leader as a new kind of official in the church, and he conducts the singing and is supposed to produce the atmosphere! This is a part of the whole depreciation of the message....."
He offers much more, but I can't type the whole chapter.
Cheers, Dr. Lloyd-Jones, rest in peace, mate,
Jim