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What happens first?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    :thumbs: Amen! This is the first act.
     
    #21 webdog, Jun 15, 2006
  2. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    #22 2BHizown, Jun 15, 2006
  3. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    #23 Terry_Herrington, Jun 15, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    J.D.;
    You still did not answer how come the woman had faith before the virtue? It is a simple question and this is just one example, there are more.
     
    #24 Brother Bob, Jun 15, 2006
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 6:37 All whom the Father gives me will come to me , and whoever comes to me I will never drive away .

    John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them , and I will raise them up at the last day .

    John 6:65 ... This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them .

    John 17:2 ... that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him .

    Acts 13:48 ... all who were appointed to eternal life believed .

    Romans 9:15,16 ... I will have mercy on whom I have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion . It does not , therefore , depend on human desire or effort , but on God's mercy .

    It is the Lord's will to either give or withhold grace . John 5:21 says for example ... even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it .

    There are many more biblical evidences for this . But if you should refuse the force of these passages -- then there is little more to be said .

    ( All verses are from the TNIV )
     
    #25 Rippon, Jun 15, 2006
  6. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    BroBob, I can't answer you on this because I don't get your point. What does virtue have to do with the subject?
     
    #26 J.D., Jun 15, 2006
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    John, chapter 12
    31": Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    "32": And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.



    John, chapter 14

    "9": Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?



    If this don't counter your argument then I don't know what will?
     
    #27 Brother Bob, Jun 15, 2006
  8. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    J.D.;
    Don't you know what virtue is and what it does?

    Well, what about being made whole after she had the faith? Can you answer that if you understand what I am saying?
     
    #28 Brother Bob, Jun 15, 2006
  9. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    O.K. I assume you're equating being made whole because of faith with being regenerated because of faith to counter the claim that regeneration precedes faith.

    Of course she had faith. Faith is a noun, a possession. And do all people have faith (in God)? No.

    2 Thess 3:2 ...for not all have faith

    So why did she have faith while others didn't? Could it be because God had done a work in her heart, preparing the good ground to receive the seed to bear much fruit?
     
    #29 J.D., Jun 15, 2006
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    So, you are saying that She had faith before she was made "whole", is that right?
     
    #30 Brother Bob, Jun 16, 2006
  11. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    O.K. I'll bite - yes, she had faith before she was made whole.
     
    #31 J.D., Jun 16, 2006
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    :thumbs: alright!!
     
    #32 Brother Bob, Jun 16, 2006
  13. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    The words of Christ:

    All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6 : 37

    NO man CAN come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6 : 44
     
    #33 2BHizown, Jun 16, 2006
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    John, chapter 12
    31": Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    "32": And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.



    John, chapter 14

    "9": Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
     
    #34 Brother Bob, Jun 16, 2006
  15. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    I disagree with calvinism on 'total depravity'. They do not believe a person have will to make decision to choice. Because they saying that a person is spiritually dead or natural man cannot understand God's thing.

    Romans 10:14 says, "HOW then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and HOW shall they believe in him of whom they have NOT HEARD? and HOW SHALL they hear WITHOUT A PREACHER?"

    Obivous, this verse is bold speak against calvinism's one of the five point- 'total depravity'.

    They CANNOT hear the gospel WITHOUT anyone telling them the gospel FIRST.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #35 DeafPosttrib, Jun 16, 2006
  16. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    Sovereignty

    It isnt necessary to scream. As christians we should be able to discuss the bible without yelling!

    That said, Yes, God uses means to effect His will. He touches hearts, uses preachers, the foolishness of preaching the gospel, the witnessing of christians and other means of bringing a person into contact with His word, His gospel.

    As to depravity, it clearly tells us in Ephesians that we were dead until Christ touched our heart and caused us to seek Him, respond to Him. He grants faith to believe and repent and if we are truly believers, not professors but posessors, our life will be changed and this will be apparent to others in our changed interests, love for the brethren, joy and peace and sharing of the gospel with others! God bless you!
     
    #36 2BHizown, Jun 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2006
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    No one here denies that all are dead in sin before Salvation. That has nothing whatsoever to do with "they shall all know me from the least unto the greatest."
    If the Calvinist are dead also, how do they hear God when He calls, how do they know to accept what God wants them to do if they are dead also. How come they can hear but the non-elect cannot when both are "dead in sin"? You say God touched your heart but if you were dead, how did you know it was God?
     
    #37 Brother Bob, Jun 16, 2006
  18. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    It has to do with the OP.
    We are dead in sin until God touches our heart and calls us to Himself, gifting us with faith and repentance to follow Him, making the christian life possible to us who then turn to HIm in obedience and learn of Him.
     
    #38 2BHizown, Jun 16, 2006
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    If your heart is dead how can you respond? You say the non-elect can't respond because they are dead well so are you so how can you respond?
     
    #39 Brother Bob, Jun 16, 2006
  20. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    And you(thats me) hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins'
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    But God who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(by grace ye are saved)
    And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2 :1,2,4,5,6,7
    Soli deo gloria! Praise His holy name!
     
    #40 2BHizown, Jun 16, 2006
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