what happens if you die while you're sinning? Pt. 2

Question: "what happens if you die while you're sinning?"

Answer: "Don't you know that the Law rules over every human for as long as he lives" - who is exempted? "Who has nos sin; let him throw the first stone".

 

We all die in sin, with sin, through sin; but are raised by grace unto everlasting life, or, unto everlasting torment. Faith is the deciding factor - God its Dispenser.

 

GE; Do you teach your membership it is alright to commit murder, adultery, worship idols. What do you teach them please? No one is without sin is true but do you consider the Scripture below or just cast a blind eye.

1 John, chapter 5

16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

"17": All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

"18": We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

"19": And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

"20": And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

"21": Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Or have you considered the following Scripture?


Hebrews, chapter 6

"4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

Laws are like as 'mirror' that they are bond or slave to us, show that we are sinners. Laws bring us to death. Thank God, that we freed from the laws by through Jesus Christ by calvary. Now, we are saved by grace THROUGH OUR FAITH ONLY, not of our own good works.

When after we believed Christ, and already set us freed from being slave, we are no longer under the laws anymore.

My question is does that mean we have to follow all 400 or 500 laws of the Old Testament?

No. We don't have to.

Christ already abolished them away through Calvary. We are no longer under laws, even under the old covenant economy anymore.

Are the Ten Commandments part of the laws.

Yes. But, these are the major basic laws, which God emphasis us both Jews and Genmtiles ought to follow them.

Being obey the Ten Commandements do not bring us to heaven, or these cannot saved us.

Right now, we are under the new covenant economy, does that mean, we don't have to follow the laws today?

No. Christ doesn't saying it. Also, Bible doesn't saying that we should be continue sinning now.

God puts laws into our heart as we remember what Christ has done for us by Calvary, so, we should be holy, because he is holy, so, therefore, we should follow Christ's example.

My point is, laws are like as mirror, these show us, that we are all guilt and death and sinner. That why, we need our Saviour - Jesus Christ to set us free from them.

Understand?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

GE; Do you teach your membership it is alright to commit murder, adultery, worship idols.

No.

What do you teach them please?

I teach jesus saves sinners.

No one is without sin is true but do you consider the Scripture below or just cast a blind eye.

1 John, chapter 5

16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This presupposes unto death with fellow-men - or according to civil law. If civil law condemned someone to death the Christian should not appeal to God against that sentence.
No sin against God is not, unto death; The wages of sin are death." Christ saves from death if He saves from these sins.

And all sin "unto death" - which in the sight of God is all sin - doesn't matter while the sinner comits a sin while dying ot earlier during his life - the sinner's WHOLE life-process is one of dying, in any case.


"17": All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Again, in the eye of civil law - not in the eye of God's Law; The Law makes no exceptions: the sinner shall die for his sin.

"18": We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

It is true the born of God do not so live as to get into confrontation with the law like not to commit murder, because you'll be punished accordingly.

Here John calls the state 'the wicked one', and if you obey the laws of the state, that wicked one won't get at you.


"19": And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Self-explanatory, and confirms what I've said.

"20": And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

We need not to fear If Christ is for us, even our weakness and sinfulness of nature cannot separate us from His love.

"21": Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Oh that the child of God won't love the sin the wicked one has always not only tolerated, but promulgated. Here, be disobedient to the world rather than obedient, in order to be obedient to Christ. (Like in Sunday-sacredness today).

Or have you considered the following Scripture?


Hebrews, chapter 6

"4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For any child of God to fall into a sin or even into a habit of sinning doesn't mean he has renounce his Saviour or is renounced of Him.

 

You forgot to mention that the righteous of the Law (Ten) is fulfilled in us by the "Grace" that you and others keep referring to. And to fulfill the righteous is certainly not to break them for that is sin not righteous. For the life of me I can't understand why you don't see or understand that. If the Laws are within you now it means they are part of your keeper through His Grace. Always His Grace but that includes putting off the old man and putting on the new.
A mirror? If you look in the mirror and see and adultereous you better be talking to the Lord about repenting and that is for sure.

Christ didn't teach us we were to keep the Law?
Sure he did, the first thing He asked the young man who as what to do to be saved is do you know the Commandments.

After all this negative posts about the Ten Commandments I dare say any of you would take in your membership a mass killer who the Law is still looking for afraid he will kill before they can get to him.

That kind of doctrine is against everything the Scriptures teach us and the Spirit teaches us. Amen,
BBob

 

Nowhere does the Scriptures say that we are no longer the Law or laws - on the contrary! It assures us we are no longer under the curse of the Law which something quite different and presupposes the still binding Law of God that kills for each and all sin. Yea, we're more than ever under that LAW for He killeth in order to raise unto a new life every of them who belongs to Him and the Father has given Him, so that nothing shall pluck them from His hand, not even our last sin while dying. What, in any case, of our own doing in our last moment, in the glory and brightness of Christ's righteousness, shall we consider not sin?

 

I'm the worst user of technology - pardon for the above mix-up.

 

God Bless, You are a reasonable man and that is the kind I respect.

Don't you think the greatest thing the Lord was telling the young man is that the Law didn't give him life he still needed to follow Christ and accept him to be saved?

BBob

[ May 20, 2006, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Claudia,

All I asked for was evidence that someone "pretended that they dont understand" you, when they do.

I just dont know what you are talking about there, thats all.

(are you speaking about someone asking a rhetorical question? If so I think you are misunderstanding.)

Mike

 

BrotherBob,

You guys say over and over that we have to "keep the law" and if someone doesnt "keep the law" they arent saved.

I think you mis-typed that, but I think I know what you are trying to say. No we are not taught that keeping the Law will enable us to abstain from all ungodliness and worldly lust.

The scriptures teach...

You again...

Totally true.

No, we walk in the goodness of the Holy Spirit...

Notice...it says this is how we "serve". It is how we live out the christian life.

NOT under the "oldness" of the Law, by in the "newness" of the Spirit.

You again...

Absolutly true. Because the sinless and perfect rightiousness of Christ is imputed (or credited) to us...

You...

Thats correct...because we are no longer under it. We are completly freed from being Lawkeepers.

Of course transgression of the Law is sin. And God is so stringent that that quick lustfull look makes one guilty of adultery, and the tiniest bit of inordinant anger towards someone makes one a guilty murderer.

That condemns any right thinking person, and forces them to realise they are hopeless sinners who must be saved by Gods mercy.

That mercy is attained when the Law drives us to Jesus Christ for that mercy. The Law has then fullfilled its purpose regarding our justification.

That can only be done through the Holy Spirit. And only after one realises that tey are now dead to the Law.

Its you guys who dont understand that. If you did you would not be claiming you must still live under the Law.

The Lord...

You again...

Just like gobs and gobs of other ways to break the Law.

The whole purpose of that entire passage of scripture is to prove the universality of the condemnation of all people. Jew, gentile, those who have heard the gospel, those who havent, etc. We are all sinners and all break the Law...and that is why we all need mercy.

And you actually could have gone much further and continued quoting scripture right up until Chapter 3 verse 20, where God winds it all up by saying...

But beginning with verse 21, God gives His remedy...

Precisely what I and others on this thread have been saying all along.

Thank you for posting those passages of scripture, Bob.

Those are a beautiful proof of our point in this argument.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

Claudia, you asked

Mt:11:11: Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Lk:7:28: For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

 

I don't think I ever hid the fact that Joey is my pastor, I have sat under him for the better part of ten years. I find it strange that people get all upset if you suggest a 'lazy' Christian might miss the millennial kingdom, when those same people believe a 'lazy' Christian will go to the lake of fire for all eternity.

 

You absolutely cross yourself here, makes me think you don't really know what you are saying sometimes.

Again you thank me when you are crossing yourself, so thank you for you just prove my point that the righteous of the Law is fulfilled in us.


Ecclesiastes Chapter 12
"13": Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

You state the following when you don't get mixed up.

1. Sinner can't keep the Law which does not give life. (BTW, we also agree it does not give life.)

2. Righteous don't have to keep the Law for by Grace are they saved. (by the way we believe in Salvation by Grace through faith also but if you have the Grace it will see that you do keep the Law for they are in your heart and mind.)

(Now the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep His Commandments but you say you can't and then you don't have to, you do misquote the Scriptures terrible.)

Blessings,

BBob

 

You just can't grasp that under the Law Covenant they read the Commandments from a written "letter of the Law".

Now it is by the Spirit we are taught the Law and not the oldness of the "letter".

You take that Scripture and say the Law is done away with when it is only telling you that we receive it a different way now and that is by the Spirit. For God seeketh such to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

Blessings,

BBob

 

I would argue a different point.

2 Cor 3 draws a distinction between the saved and the lost not between "ages". It does not declare the saints of the OT to be saved under a "covenant of death" that only produces "Death".

It claims that those today who are not saved - are under the covenant of death. The Law external. The Law that condemns. By contrast the SAVED are under the covenant of LIFE with the SAME LAW of the TABLETS - written on tablets of the human heart.

It is the SAME LAW in both cases. But the contrast is between the saved and the lost. OTHERWISE it would be saing EVERYONE before the cross is lost and EVERYONE after the cross is saved!

And of course we don't want to go there in 2Cor 3!

AFTER the cross we STILL have both the saved AND the lost and the lost are STILL lost the same way - with the law external - condemning them. The saved are still saved the same way - with the New Birth (as Christ points out PRE-Cross to Nicodemus in John 3 and insists that as a "teacher of the Law in Israel" Nicodemus should ALREADY know this).

In Christ,

Bob

 

(I meant today after the the coming of Christ and His death. The following Scripture tells me that even the sinner is taught what ungodliness is which of course would be breaking the Commandments. As far as putting the law in their hearts and minds I believe that is to the saved. It also says they shall not go door to door saying "know ye the Lord" for they shall know me from the least unto the greatest.)

Titus, chapter 2
"11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

BrotherBob,

When I hear someone say I am "crossing myself" I immedietly think of that little "crossing themselves" ritual thing Catholics do.

Of course I will NEVER do that again.

I think by "crossing myself" you are saying that I am contradicting myself. I'm not of course, but you can think that if you want to.

The rightious requirements of the Law are indeed fulfilled in us, because the Lord Jesus Christ kept them perfectly, and His perfect rightiousness and perfect lawkeeping has been imputed to us. Credited to "our account" by someone else...Jesus Christ.

You quoted Ecclesiastes...

And that admonition was given........when?

Before the cross, when the Old Covenant was in effect?

Or after the cross, when the New Covenant takes effect?

Impossible.

What you are saying is that before it was all Law. Now...according to you, its a combination of the 2. You say its now the Spirit...teaching us the Law...rather than the letter.

God says different...

God clearly tells us 2 things...

1: We are to live the christian life by faith.

2: The Law, in contrast, is not of faith

And...

And...

What you are correct about is that we are called as christians to spend the rest of our lives "renewing our minds" through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. But that is to never be contaminated by bring "Lawkeeping" into it.


You again...

God...over and over and over and over and over again...says different.

In~His~Grace~

Mike

 

So, we have a different creation now?

You still don't get it do you. You keep saying that I am saying the Law gives life but that is your way out, when if fact I am saying by the Grace of God which saves us the Law is in our hearts and minds therefore the righteous of the law is fulfilled in us which means not to transgress the law for that would be sin.


And please let me hear from you? Do we make void the Law through faith, God forbid, yea we establish the law. Also, not one jot or title shall pass from the law until Heaven and earth pass. Last time I looked they are still here.

You advocate Sin.
I advocate righteous.

blessings,
BBob