what happens if you die while you're sinning? Pt. 2

So what is a sin unto death?

 

WHOA!!! This topic have been debate, debate, debate from part one into part two since xdisciple started within 3 days already! Wow! That's lot. We have to be realize that the doctrine of salvation debate is so hotly ever than any doctrines we are facing today. Also, I realize Soteriology(salvation) doctrine is the most top theme of the Bible than any doctrines.

Because we all have two destiny - heaven and hell. No one can escape from their destiny after death. We all shall face either one of two destiny where we will go right after we die.

Myself used to believe in security salvation doctrine. Till about three years ago, I am now no longer believe in security salvation. I realized Bible mentioned conditional salvation so much overwhelmed.

You have to be realize of Matthew 24:24 warns us that the elects might be deceived - POSSIBLE- opposite of IMpossible.

I realized Matt. 24:24 is not just speak for future great tribulation period - "Antichrist" or "World's Messiah" only. Christ tells us, we must watch out for false ChristS and false prophetS. 'False Christs' is mentioned refer from 1 John 2:18-19 saying that, in the last days, we hear that antichrist shall come, even, now already there are many antichrists out there everywhere. Next verse 19 tells us, many were went out from us. Mean, they departed from us. For IF they would have been of us, and have CONTINUED with us. But, they astray away from us, that they made manifest that they were not all of us. To my understanding of "'that they might be made MANIFEST...." It speaks of being identify them by seeing their fruits (Matt. 7:16-20).

Today, we already see so many people who are claim or being professing as Christian, but they are hyrocrite. We already see so many antichrists out there.

Also, Christ tells us, we must watch out for 'false prophets'. Matt. 24:24 refers with 1 John 4:1-3, that we must watch out and test them, to prove them, that they are not Christian, or not telling the truth. Because we already see so many flase religions out there. We must watch out for false teachers or pastors. Today, we already see so many flase teachers out there everywhere.

I realized Matt. 24:24 is not just speak for future great tribulation period only. Matt. 24:24 already fulfilled during Early Church history. Many elects were already deceived by false teachers and religions throughout centuries to today.

I fear that many elects are already in hell for being deceived by false teachers/pastors. That why Christ warns us of Matt. 7:15, that we must watc out them, because many are on the way to hell(Matt. 7:13-14).

This topic have been debate, debate lately.

Luke 15:11-32 is a perfect example that a Christian could be lost.

Often, securists argue, 'a person is not saved in the FIRST PLACE.'

That is not true.

Luke 15:11-32 clear telling us, the prodigal son was ALREADY with his father at the first place.

Calvinists do not believe that we all have freewill.

Luke 15:11-32 teaches us very clear that we all have freewill to make decision and choice.

This passage tells us, when the prodigal son decides to leave his father. He tells his father that he wants his father's will(money and things), then leave his home, and go on his own way. His father cannot force his son to stay with him. Father lets his son go. Yet, father loves his son so much, and he is longsuffering with his son according 2 Peter 3:9.

While the prodigal son remains in the dark, Luke 15:24 & 32 simple and plainly telling us, that he is LOST- period. It is not speak of physically, but spiritually.

Luke 15:18-21 telling us, the prodigal son makes decision to turn back to his father. That is repentance. Also, obivously, this passage proves us, that we all have freewill to make decision to repent or not.

What IF..... the prodigal son remaineth in the daek all the way to death, then, he is remain always LOST. That's period.

That means, he is on the way to destruction - hell. Unless, he repents.

Bible clears teaching us, if suppose a Christian remaineth sinning all the way to death without repent is on the way to hell.

Entering into the narrow road to heaven is not easy - Matt. 7:13-14 & Luke 13:24.

Too many quit serving the Lord, back to world, stopped praying, stopped confess sins to Christ. Obivously, most of them will not make enter into everlasting life, most will be end up in everlasting fire.

There are so much overwhelmed evidences in the Bible describes on conditional salvation with warnings. No way that we can afford to neglect them. We must take heed God's Word and obey them.

Later, I will discuss more with verses on conditional salvation.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Adultery, lying, stealing, murder, etc

Have you not read where there will be no liars or murders in Heaven?

We can't have it both ways and say;
"well, I lie everyday of my life, hahaha but I am going to Heaven." (Not according to the Lord you are not.}

 

James,

Which 'death' is speak of physical or spiritual??

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

No, I haven't seen that verse. Regardless, what criteria are you going by to say that adultery, lying, stealing, murder etc are sins unto death? And what sins are not sins unto death? I'm trying to figure out your system so I can be saved too.

 

Dearest DHK and StandingFirm in Christ,

Allright you two!

WHY does the Bible say over and over and over again that we need to keep the Commandments?


I want a clear answer on this from you both. Do you think the Bible just say this for the shock value?


Do you think we are supposed to just ignore half the Bible?


Or do you think the more REASONABLE answer is that God expects us to love Him and want to please Him? Please stop acting as if you dont unerstand what I am saying.

Do you love your wife and want to please her?

Do you always PERFECTLY please your wife?

I would bet the answer is NOOOOOOOOOOO


Should you then STOP EVER TRYING?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why? Basically because that would be stupid, no?

The idea is that your wife wants your HEART... your LOVE...

Well guess what? God is the same way!!

NO you cannot keep His law perfectly.

I think you both keep doing this thing saying I think I am sinless or perfect because what else can you say???


You've got to keep coming up with this malarky because thats all you've got!


I wont call any of you "Moronic" but it seems quite goofy that you keep on with this trying to say I claim I an sinless and perfect when you know quite well I have not EVER EVER EVER said that.

Now just stop.

okay??

Claudia

 

You already have the physical death pronounced on you and no escape so it means the siritual as I read for when we sin our selves that is what we bring on ourselves.

Not my system JN; it is the Lord's and do what He said "hast thou kept the Commandments"? It is not so hard but seems man has made it that way. I find the Commandments are not greiveous to me but seems some have a problem with them saying we can't keep them when the first time Jesus taught us of them the young man said these have I kept from my youth up but now adays Christian say No! Lord, I can't.

Well, you live you life and I will live mine. Amen,

 

One thing I dont understand is why most of you would PROBABLY say it isnt allright as a Christian to go out and murder someone, to go out and rob a bank, to go out and commit adultery with your neighbor's wife...


But then if I say you need to keep the Commandments you act as if I have said something different than what you just said LOL!

I would HOPE none of you would stand at the pulpit and preach to everyone that now that Jesus died for you, you are free to go rob a bank and murder your neighbor?

Claudia

 

You know what the Ten Commandments are so which ones do you feel we can break. Please list them so I will know what you all consider a Christian.
JN, SfiC, DHK would you please list the ones you think we can break and which ones do you break?

Do any of you commit adultery?
Do any of you murder?
Do any of you worship idol Gods
Do any of you lie?
Do any of you covet your neighbor's wife


If you keep any of the above please tell me why???

 

Yikes! I hope I didnt just say something I shouldnt of said to the Moderator! Is there a BB Message Board Mercy Seat I can run to for cover?

Its hard to have a conversation though of any value if you have to walk on eggshells around the Moderator and if you have to be afraid of saying anything to him..


Sorry Moderator if I said anything out of line.

Moderators probably get tired of people not treating them like everyone else though (at least I hope that they do or else Im in trouble lol!)


Claudia

 

Now we're getting somewhere. What was the rich young ruler's sin? What did Jesus say that he lacked?

 

Are these the five deadly sins?

 

The rich young ruler idolized his money.

so when Jesus showed him his plague spot he didnt want to give up his idol and walked away.

Thats unfortunate, he shouldve given it up and decided to follow Jesus.

The rich young ruler THOUGHT he was keeping the commandments but really he was not because he idolized his money.

Not sure what you all are trying to get out of this entire passage... but thats what it says. Jesus wanted him to leave all and follow Him... but didnt want to give up his idol... MONEY


Luke 18
18: And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21: And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22: Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23: And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24: And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25: For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26: And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27: And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
28: Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
29: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
30: Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

 

James

those arent 5 deadly sins, they are SINS as in breaking the commandments, as in... we are told not to do that...

1Jn:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

which somehow gets interpreted by many of you to mean that we SHOULDNT keep His commandments or that it doesnt even MATTER whether we do or not.. or that we CANT keep them.

which is beyond me...


cant understand why you all do this...

 

Five of the Ten Commandments yes.

Told the Young man to go and sell what he had and the important part was "come and follow me" which is what we say that the Commandments don't save you but still takes the Blood of Christ to do that.

Question;SfiC, DHK,
JN; Are you saying if Jesus walked up to you today and said "thou keepest the Commandments" would you walk away sorrow? Because you will be asked when you stand before God.

DF; I look at the prodical son as going out in sin not being saved and then going out in sin. I believe a person has to know to do good and do it not before it is sin. I don't think God pronounced the second death on children. Also, I was wondering why after several years you changed to believe you could do a deathly sin?

(Going to Gymn, be back soon)

 

DHK: What is there not to get.
No one can keep the law. The Jews could not keep the law. Christ came because the law could not save. The law only brought death. It condemned. It is and always has been impossible to keep the law. There is no one on this board that keeps the Law.


HP: This is one of the issues that is a watershed issue. What is amazing to me is that I also hear you also say that all sin I willful. If there is only one possible consequent for any given antecedent, it is a matter of necessity not freedom. You claim that we of necessity cannot keep the law when you state it is impossible to keep. You like to use the word ‘willful.’ How is something that is ‘willful’ that is necessitated? Your 'willful' is not unlike the willful effort a rock exerts as it falls off of a cliff.

I have mentioned clear passages of Scripture where the Apostle Paul states he in fact has keep the law, blameless. I failed to see your comments on this passage. Read the 119th Psalm for starters, then tell me it is impossible to keep the law of God. Was David a liar or simple confused? You say you love God, yet tell me it is impossible to keep God’s law? “He that saith he loves me and keepeth not my commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him.” Sure we all have sinned. This does not in any way negate our keeping of God’s law at this moment.

You make no distinction, that I have seen concerning ceremonial law and the moral law. Do you feel there is none, and if you do, could you clarify that distinction for us. God states that His commandments are not grievous. Moses pointed out to the children of Israel that indeed the commandments of God could indeed be kept, even in the OT. De 30:11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Are we not much more able in this dispensation with the indwelling Spirit able to keep God’s law? Show us where Scripture states it cannot be kept or it is impossible to keep as you like to say.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me”

You destroy every notion of fairness and equity of the character of God, and totally destroy ever vestige of morality, when you devise a system of theology in which not only makes God’s commandments, which are fair, just, pure, and true, impossible to keep, and then paint the horrific picture of a god that would punish man for an eternity in a burning living hell for failure to overcome necessitated fate, a fate that they had no possible way of avoiding. I can think of no greater blight to place upon the character of a Loving, Just, Holy God than such a system of theology as you have set forth.

 

So in keeping the 10 commandments to keep our salvation, do we find ourselves justified in losing the end of the 10th commandment?

Exodus 20:17
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Do you expect me to believe you never covet anything? Paul said he wouldn't have known sin, except the law said thou shalt not covet. You say you sin, but you are keeping the 10 commandments perfectly? And your not picking up any sticks on Saturday either, I suppose. How can you say that there are some sins a Christian cannot do? Christians sin every day, big sins, little sins, sins unto death, whatever. Why does Jesus tell us to pray thus?
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.

How would you deal with a verse like this?
1 John 3:6
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

I don't believe I ever said any of those things. I do believe you should, it does matter, and I pretty much believe you can. Now the question is 'do I have to do these to be saved'? If I do, what did Jesus have to die for?

 

JN: Now the question is 'do I have to do these to be saved'? If I do, what did Jesus have to die for?

HP: To make an atonement for sins that you have committed in the past, to build a bridge that makes it possible to inherit eternal life having sinned. Christ had to satisfy the demands of the law by suffering sufficiently and dying. In completing the sacrifice on the cross, God in His wisdom could see that a satisfaction had been made for the penalty of the law that would uphold the character of the law, and that having the sacrifice accomplished, God could safely offer a pardon for sins that are past, under certain conditions, showing forth His abundant mercy safely without negating or destroying His law. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

In order to inherit eternal life, we must repent of all sins that are past. look to Christ in faith, and endure until the end in loving obedience.

 

James,

You asked of a young rich ruler, what he have lack for.

Let's read Matt. 19:16-30.

Verse 16 tells us, a young man came to Christ, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have ETERNAL LIFE?"

Pause this verse.

A young rich man doesn't ask Christ about 'millennial kingdom', because he never hear of 'a thousand years' anywhere in the Bible(Old Testament books in his period). He understoods, 'eternal' simple means forever without end, no limited. He asked for his future destiny what he shold to do to have eternal life after his death.

Then, Christ said to him, why he called Christ, "Good"? He said to him, there is none good but one, that is, Godaccording to Romans 3:10). Also, He told to a man, if he desires to have eternal life, then he HAVE TO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.

Obivously, He is speaking to us according John 14:15; and 15:9-14.

I believe he means include the Ten Commandments. Even, also include two commandements - Love Christ(God), also love one another.

Back to Matt. 19:16-30 again.

Verse 18,19 - A young man asked Christ, which one? Then Christ said to him, speaking of the Ten Commandments.

Verse 20 - A young man told Christ, he did do these things in his youth, but what thing, he missed?

Verse 21 - Jesus told him, if he desires to be mature or growing, then man would have to yeild up his possessions to poor people, and he shall have blessing from heaven, and COME AND FOLLOW HIM.

Verse 22 - A young man was upset with Christ, he refused give up of his possession, wanted to keep his own things. He departed Christ. Why? Because of NO FAITH in Christ. He was worried over his earthy things, he doesn't want to lose eveything what he have.

Same with Abraham. When he was a very rich man in the Land of Ur. One day, God came to him, told him to give up his possession and come to follow him. What happened to him? He was no argue with God, he immediately obey and follow him because of his FAITH.

After a young rich man left Christ, then Christ said to his disciples of verse 23,24 - "Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Christ told them, no way for a rich man to enter into heaven, because of his lack of faith and complaint. Christ speaks of camel of verse 24. This verse does not take into literally. He used camel as illustration. Because the camels are in the Middle East, in the desert. Camel's character, shows have patience, being submit, obey, and have faith. We notice camels have its big back for use to carry heavy load. Camels have to carry heavy load of things on its' back, while carry it across the desert for a long journey. Camel shows no complain, have patience and faith.

Then, verse 25 - disciples heard of Christ's words, they were great shocked and saying, "Who then CAN BE SAVED?"

Then, Christ said to them of verse 26, "With men is IMpossible, but with GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."

Christ's point is, saving the earthly things are worthless and temporary. Everything shall be passed away. With God, all are possible. Remember, God is an eternality, he is no beginning and no end. WE have to depend on God with our faith.

Then, Peter asked Christ of verse 27- "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; WHAT shall we have therefore?"

Christ asnwered to him of verse 28, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Christ promised them, that they have followed him, shall reign with Christ in the glory, to judging the tribes of Israel. It speaks of future event follow at the second advent. This verse doesn't suggest us that, the twelves disciples have more special role or duty above over us for future reign or receive reward at Christ's coming. Neither this verse mentioned, 'a thousand years' either. This verse is speak of disciples' future promised blessings and rewards and eternality heavenly possession from above.

Notice next verse 29, Christ said, "And EVERY ONE(not just for disciples or Jews only, also include us) that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall INHERIT EVERLASTING LIFE."

Christ promises us, if we surrender everything what we have, and to follow Him all the way throughout our life, shall receive reward, AND HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE!

OR.... What IF we refuse to surrender our life to Christ, then will not receive reward and EVERLASTING LIFE!!!! That mean, we might go to hell, IF we do not come and follow Christ.

Look next verse 30 - Christ said, "But MANY that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."

Christ's point is, most people have their own pride, have everything of earthly things, not need Christ. Few are humble, have faith in the Lord, willing to follow Christ, whatsoever the Lord wants them to do, is to OBEY him.

One more last thing to tell you something.

Few days ago, I read sports in 'Detroit News' newspaper. The reporters interviewed with James Lebron, who playing for Cleveland Cavaliars against Detroit Pistons during this second round playoff series.

James said, "Within 15 to 20 years from now, I will be the world's richest man, with billion dollars...I would not have to be worry about my son, and next to his son by generation, because they will be all alright and (security-my own interpreting as what he talked about).

That's sad. He had his mind on earthly materialism rather than focus on God.

Same with a young rich man.

No doubt, that a young rich man is already in hell, because he refused to follow Christ, and have NO FAITH.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!