What happens if you die while you're sinning?

[D28guy]

Claudia,

"I have never even remotely hinted that I thought I was sinless LOL! wow I must need better communication skills!

Here is what you said...

(bolding mine)

"Im not any longer under condemnation of the Law... WHY? because Im keeping it now!!!"

How else should one interpret that statement?

The scripturally identified purpose of the Law is to condemn every one of us, show us we are hopelessly sinful, and then to drive us to Christ for salvation.

In other words, the Law was made deliberetly so stringent so that every one of us will realise that we...cant...keep...it perfectly.

Yet you say, concerning the Law,..."I'm keeping it now".

Did you speak wrongly, or choose the wrong words or something? If so then I'm sorry I misunderstood, but I can only go the words you choose.

God bless,

Mike

 

[J. Jump]

Gekko yes you have your spirit and you have the Holy Spirit. Your spirit is not kicked out because the Holy Spirit comes in. There is no Scriptural evidence to that, as a matter of fact there is quite the opposite.

I don't have the exact chapter and verse, but I'll try to track it down for you, but the Bible says that the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit.

Also Hebrews 4:12 says the Bible separates the soul and the spirit. Your spirit is not done away with.

Brother Bob try finding a Scripture that actually speaks to what you are saying. You say that the spirit and the soul are saved at the same time. Psalm 23 doesn't say anything about the spirit and the soul being saved at the same time.

 

[Brother Bob]

At death the spirit goes back to God who give it, both righteous and unrighteous for it belongs to God. That spirit is called the breath of life.

I say that both soul and body are saved but the body has to wait until the resurrection to receive its change. The soul receives its change now. The spirit belongs to God, He is just letting us use it a while when we die the spirit goes back to God who give it.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Hi JJump,
You sure do a lot of distinguishing between the spirit and the soul. I wonder if you could point out this clear distinction you see for those of us that might be having a little trouble following you. You wouldn’t happen to be able to verify this clear distinction in the GK could you? Thanks.

 

[J. Jump]

Gekko here are a couple of verses that show our spirit and soul are not saved at the same time.

James 1:21 - Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

This is written to believers. If the believers souls were already saved then why would James say these believers needed to put aside these things and receive the word implanted which is able to save the soul.

I Peter 1:9 says obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

I didn't put the whole passage in there, but you can look it up for yourself. It's talking about the Lord coming back and the outcome or the goal of our faith is the salvation of our soul.

If something is already a done deal it can't be an outcome or a goal, because those are things that haven't happened are awaited in the future.

In the Gospel accounts you have a few occasions where it says we can lose our life now and find it in the world to come. The word for life is the same word for soul. So we can lose our soul now and find it in the world to come. Or we can live our life now and lose it in the world to come.

That to me doesn't sound like our soul is absolutely saved.

 

[Brother Bob]

Psalms, psalm 23


1: The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever

 

[D28guy]

I wonder if this is some kind of record?

18 pages in less than 2 1/2 days?

Mike

 

[Brother Bob]

This is who it is talking to gek; truthfully it was talking to the twelve tribes of Israel trying to get them converted to Christianity.

James, chapter 1
26: If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

JJ; you said to show you a scripture where the soul is saved and I did and you said nothing.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob,
Jesus was clear about a two sided love affair, love towards God and love towards our fellowman. If we are to fulfill the law as Jesus commanded, we must address both objects Christ commanded us to love. Only God knows what each one of us need to do to find complete victory. Some, such as yourself, may indeed have nothing to make right. I found in my own life, subsequent to the initial salvation experience, that total victory and an assurance that my prayers were being heard was not going to be a solid reality until I cleared up some issues on the love towards man side. I feel now it was God seeing if in fact I would risk everything to get sqeeeky clean, with both God and man. I had got everything right with God at salvation, but obviously now I see that the Holy Spirit directed me to clear up the ‘love towards man side’ as well. I cannot help but feel that failure to make needed restitution towards man is often that which stymies a victorious and fruitful life in a lot of cases. I know that without a doubt it was the starting point of a revival in my personal walk with the Lord. Other issues that had developed over the years with one individual, even unrelated to any restitution, quickly found healing as well. To God be the glory!

This restitution experience also provided needed stimulus to continue walking with the Lord in a proper manner. I sure do not desire to ever have to go back over that road again. I desire now more than ever to keep short accounts with the Lord and my fellowman.

 

[Brother Bob]

HP; I am all for it. If I had of felt as you did I would of done the same thing and in some instances I did. Those who were my enemies before I had to make peace with them. If I thought of anyone I might owe I tried to pay them. There is this one person in service over in Germany that my father died back in the States and I borrowed $20.00 dollars from him and it still bothers me that I don't know where that man lives so I could go and pay him back, but God knows my heart so I don't feel condemned by it but still would like to give his money back. It made me feel good that you were so sincere about serving God. That is how we all should be and strive everyday to be perfect knowing that we can't until the resurrection but we sure can try.

I guess what bothers me more on here is the fact of some painting a picture to the world that Christians do what they do and that is why I left the world, I didn't want to go that way anymore and if Christians do what they do then we are no better than they are. I say we are better, I know I am not the man I used to be.

How true as you stated a two sided love affair. Love the Lord thy God and Love thy neighbor.

BBob;

 

[Claudia_T]

Mike,

Ive said time and time again that Im not keeping the law perfectly perfectly perfect...

Heavens sake how many times I gotta say that? and Ive said again and again the Lord desires our heart and our loyalty,, that we WANT to obey Him... we will fall and fail... Ive said this over and over and over n the forum

 

[Claudia_T]

The first thing Zaccheaus did when Jesus came around is he went and restored what he owed to everyone. He repented. THEN Jesus said "Today salvation is come to thy house"

 

[Claudia_T]

this spirit and soul thing is goofy.

your spirit is merely our breath anyway. spirit and body together is your soul.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Heavenly Pilgrim:
DHK,
Let me ask it in another way if that is OK. Can a man ever have a pure heart before God, and have a testimony that God has forgiven you of every sin, and that your heart is white as snow and that every sin that is passed is casted from us as far as the East is from the West?

Only in his standing before God positionally because of the work of Christ. I trusted Christ as my Saviour. His blood covers all my sin. When God looks down on me, he sees not me, not DHK, but rather the righteousness of Jesus Christ. That is my position before God. There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

However being a saved person doesn't guarantee that I won't sin. I will. But that doesn't mean I will lose my salvation. I won't. I may lose my fellowship with God. Sin separates us from God, but it doesn't cause us to lose our salvation. That is why John, writing to believers, said:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Considering the first and greatest commandment, in relation to your question, I would say the answer is no (if I understand you correctly).
Can any person love the Lord His God with all of his strength all of the time--every ounce of energy that he has, directed toward God.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Can you love God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. I would say: No.
DHK

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
your spirit is merely our breath anyway. spirit and body together is your soul.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your spirit is not your breath. Your spirit is the seat of your intelect, the reasoning part of you.

1 Corinthians 2:11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Sometimes soul refers to the whole being, but the soul itself is distinct from the spirit and is rather the seat of the emotions.

Revelation 18:14
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

The soul, in order to be saved, must be in subjection to the spirit, the spirit being enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Claudia_T]

DHK

You are saying that Jesus asks us to do something that we cannot do.

You could say you dont do it but to say you cant do it is making God out to be someone who asks His children to do things that are impossible.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen Claudia;

Should be enough Scripture to show they all stay together but I doubt it.

1 Thessalonians, chapter 5
"23": And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew, chapter 10
"28": And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Claudia_T:
your spirit is merely our breath anyway. spirit and body together is your soul.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your spirit is not your breath. Your spirit is the seat of your intelect, the reasoning part of you.

1 Corinthians 2:11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Sometimes soul refers to the whole being, but the soul itself is distinct from the spirit and is rather the seat of the emotions.

Revelation 18:14
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

The soul, in order to be saved, must be in subjection to the spirit, the spirit being enlightened by the Holy Spirit. </font>[/QUOTE]well read this and see what you think of it:
Man's Spirit

 

[Brother Bob]

What I called the breath of life was what really is the Spirit of life itself. I called it breath of life because God breathe into Adams nostrils the breath of life (Spirit of life).

Revelation, chapter 11
"8": And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

"9": And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

"10": And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

"11": And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

 

[Claudia_T]

Rom 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

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quote:
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Rom 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.