HisWitness
New Member
instead of saying your a liar and an heretic like you have thrown upon me-
I will ask that the Lord does enlighten BOTH ME and YOU and shine his light upon us to know more truth and be set free!!!
-
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What Happens to the Souls of the Well Meaning Churchgoers?
- Thread starter righteousdude2
- Start date
instead of saying your a liar and an heretic like you have thrown upon me-
I will ask that the Lord does enlighten BOTH ME and YOU and shine his light upon us to know more truth and be set free!!!
Thomas Helwys
New Member
In reading through this forum while waiting to be approved, I see that those charges are frequently made here. How can people get by with that? Isn't it against forum rules?
HisWitness
New Member
Thomas Helwys
New Member
its no big thing some people have short fuses
And lack of fruit, apparently.
I Won't Deny this Truth...
...the premise of my third book [Final Daze: God's Way or the Highway] is built around the text found in Matthew 7:14-23 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
(Therefore): “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’" (NLT)
It is evident to me, that the road to hell is traveled by a large number of folks. Some are rotten to the core sinners, and many more are well meaning, good intentioned people.
However, the fact remains: Jesus said that, Unless you have been born-again" you will not see heaven!
That doesn't say unless you are a Methodist; Lutheran, Catholic; Baptist; AofG; WOF; Independent; Non-denominational; Presbyterian; Episcopal; Mennonite; CoG in Christ; Mormon; Seven-Day Adventist; etc., etc., etc.!
Unfortunately, the highway to hell is crowded, and unless those folks that have trusted in the catechism, church membership, infant baptism or whatever come to Jesus and confess Him as Lord and be born-again, as Jesus told Nicodemus to do, there looks like God has no other option but to send them packing for eternity in hell!
Believe me, this makes me sad, because I have many family members, as does my wife, who are trusting things other than Jesus to get them to heaven, and because they think that I am some kind of nut or fanatic by preaching ye must be born-again, they too will be lost.
I'd love to believe something else, and I secretly hope I am wrong, but the Word of God seems concise and matter of fact when it comes to this, and that leaves me with a very heavy heart.
My first youth pastor job was in the United Church of Christ. I loved the pastor and his sweet wife, as did I love all the wonderful, supportive folks in that church. HOWEVER, when I caught a Billy Graham message on television and saw him holding an alter call and getting respondents to pray the sinner's prayer, a light went off within me, and I started to hold alter calls after each youth service, and before I knew it, there were more than 300 kids in the Jr-Sr High groups, and most of them had accepted Jesus as Savior.
One night the pastor came to a youth group concert I scheduled, and after the group finished singing, I had a short message and encouraged kids to come forward and accept Jesus and pray the sinner's prayer.
This infuriated the pastor, and the next day he sat me down and told me that this was not how [people came to Christ. He believed in the eight weekly classes and confirmation of the attendees being taught how to become a Christian, and their given a membership card once they knew the creeds and could recite the membership statement in front of the church at which time they were given their official cards, and their names were written in the church roles.
I was given an ultimatum, to quit doing alter calls, or resign. I resigned.raying:
...the premise of my third book [Final Daze: God's Way or the Highway] is built around the text found in Matthew 7:14-23 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
(Therefore): “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’" (NLT)
It is evident to me, that the road to hell is traveled by a large number of folks. Some are rotten to the core sinners, and many more are well meaning, good intentioned people.
However, the fact remains: Jesus said that, Unless you have been born-again" you will not see heaven!
That doesn't say unless you are a Methodist; Lutheran, Catholic; Baptist; AofG; WOF; Independent; Non-denominational; Presbyterian; Episcopal; Mennonite; CoG in Christ; Mormon; Seven-Day Adventist; etc., etc., etc.!
Unfortunately, the highway to hell is crowded, and unless those folks that have trusted in the catechism, church membership, infant baptism or whatever come to Jesus and confess Him as Lord and be born-again, as Jesus told Nicodemus to do, there looks like God has no other option but to send them packing for eternity in hell!
Believe me, this makes me sad, because I have many family members, as does my wife, who are trusting things other than Jesus to get them to heaven, and because they think that I am some kind of nut or fanatic by preaching ye must be born-again, they too will be lost.
I'd love to believe something else, and I secretly hope I am wrong, but the Word of God seems concise and matter of fact when it comes to this, and that leaves me with a very heavy heart.
My first youth pastor job was in the United Church of Christ. I loved the pastor and his sweet wife, as did I love all the wonderful, supportive folks in that church. HOWEVER, when I caught a Billy Graham message on television and saw him holding an alter call and getting respondents to pray the sinner's prayer, a light went off within me, and I started to hold alter calls after each youth service, and before I knew it, there were more than 300 kids in the Jr-Sr High groups, and most of them had accepted Jesus as Savior.
One night the pastor came to a youth group concert I scheduled, and after the group finished singing, I had a short message and encouraged kids to come forward and accept Jesus and pray the sinner's prayer.
This infuriated the pastor, and the next day he sat me down and told me that this was not how [people came to Christ. He believed in the eight weekly classes and confirmation of the attendees being taught how to become a Christian, and their given a membership card once they knew the creeds and could recite the membership statement in front of the church at which time they were given their official cards, and their names were written in the church roles.
I was given an ultimatum, to quit doing alter calls, or resign. I resigned.
raying:HisWitness
New Member
...the premise of my third book [Final Daze: God's Way or the Highway] is built around the text found in Matthew 7:14-23 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
(Therefore): “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’" (NLT)
It is evident to me, that the road to hell is traveled by a large number of folks. Some are rotten to the core sinners, and many more are well meaning, good intentioned people.
However, the fact remains: Jesus said that, Unless you have been born-again" you will not see heaven!
That doesn't say unless you are a Methodist; Lutheran, Catholic; Baptist; AofG; WOF; Independent; Non-denominational; Presbyterian; Episcopal; Mennonite; CoG in Christ; Mormon; Seven-Day Adventist; etc., etc., etc.!
Unfortunately, the highway to hell is crowded, and unless those folks that have trusted in the catechism, church membership, infant baptism or whatever come to Jesus and confess Him as Lord and be born-again, as Jesus told Nicodemus to do, there looks like God has no other option but to send them packing for eternity in hell!
Believe me, this makes me sad, because I have many family members, as does my wife, who are trusting things other than Jesus to get them to heaven, and because they think that I am some kind of nut or fanatic by preaching ye must be born-again, they too will be lost.
I'd love to believe something else, and I secretly hope I am wrong, but the Word of God seems concise and matter of fact when it comes to this, and that leaves me with a very heavy heart.
My first youth pastor job was in the United Church of Christ. I loved the pastor and his sweet wife, as did I love all the wonderful, supportive folks in that church. HOWEVER, when I caught a Billy Graham message on television and saw him holding an alter call and getting respondents to pray the sinner's prayer, a light went off within me, and I started to hold alter calls after each youth service, and before I knew it, there were more than 300 kids in the Jr-Sr High groups, and most of them had accepted Jesus as Savior.
One night the pastor came to a youth group concert I scheduled, and after the group finished singing, I had a short message and encouraged kids to come forward and accept Jesus and pray the sinner's prayer.
This infuriated the pastor, and the next day he sat me down and told me that this was not how [people came to Christ. He believed in the eight weekly classes and confirmation of the attendees being taught how to become a Christian, and their given a membership card once they knew the creeds and could recite the membership statement in front of the church at which time they were given their official cards, and their names were written in the church roles.
I was given an ultimatum, to quit doing alter calls, or resign. I resigned.
can heaven be heaven if you carry the memory of your loved ones that went to hell into heaven you would be sad and weep all the time would you not ?
I'm blessed...
...to know that we will not remember those we loved who strayed and stayed on the Highway to Hell! Shalom :thumbs:
...to know that we will not remember those we loved who strayed and stayed on the Highway to Hell! Shalom :thumbs:
HisWitness
New Member
scripture evidence that you will not remember in heaven ?
where is the Scripture that says doctrine, its knowledge or its ignorance, its truth, untruth, or error, is the basis for God's mercy and grace for His people ?
I am not underestimating doctrine.
True and correct doctrine shows the forgiven sinner a glimpse, the backside of the Lord shown to Moses, if you will, of the vastness and depth of God's love and sovereignty and motivates him (the sinner) to worship God and to love Him back.
It is what separates a NT church from cults.
But doctrine is taught, and it is obvious from the answers here, sometimes referring to it as "indoctrination".
Where is the scripture that the humanly innumerable throng in Revelation 7 were redeemed or were in heaven because of correct doctrine ?
They were there because the Savior redeemed them by His blood, not because they were taught true and correct doctrine.
righteousdude2, when does a person become saved? When they walk the isle? When they decide to walk the isle? When they realize they should walk the isle? Why do we have to walk the isle? That thief on the cross certainly didn't walk the isle!
I to have often wondered about "good people" who devoted their lives to attending church. I'm sure many ended up not where they intended but then you have so many devoted individuals..., who's to say they never found favor with Jesus.
If they found Jesus contrary to the Baptist Way/understanding of coming to the Lord they would still be saved, no?
For sure though, not all roads lead to Rome. The Muslims are very dedicated but...
I to have often wondered about "good people" who devoted their lives to attending church. I'm sure many ended up not where they intended but then you have so many devoted individuals..., who's to say they never found favor with Jesus.
If they found Jesus contrary to the Baptist Way/understanding of coming to the Lord they would still be saved, no?
For sure though, not all roads lead to Rome. The Muslims are very dedicated but...
Just curious ... can a person be born again and not be well meaning?
Saved accidentally but not well meaning? I would have my doubts as if they aren't "well meaning" it would be just a show.
I was speaking once with a man who believes you can lose your salvation day in and day out and in the process he told me that he didn't believe in Death Bed Salvation. Why not, I asked? His response was that such was never recorded in the Bible.
...wow!
To me, the act of dying seals ones fate. Until they are dead who's to limit the Lord? :godisgood:
Saved accidentally but not well meaning? I would have my doubts as if they aren't "well meaning" it would be just a show.
I was speaking once with a man who believes you can lose your salvation day in and day out and in the process he told me that he didn't believe in Death Bed Salvation. Why not, I asked? His response was that such was never recorded in the Bible.
...wow!
To me, the act of dying seals ones fate. Until they are dead who's to limit the Lord? :godisgood:
Walking an isle has nothing to do with salvation, If a person comes under conviction of the Holy Spirit durring a sermon, and while hearing about Jesus discover they believe, and right before they get up to walk the isle, a suicide bomber blows up the church...they are saved...not because they are "good church person." but because they trusted in Christ.
As to "good people" who devote their lives to a false belief system...2 Tim. 4 seems to say that it is not the false teachers who are leading all these "innocent" people astray...but rather the multitudes who will not stand for truth who "ACCUMULATE TEACHERS FOR THEMSELVES". It is not entirely biblical to wring our hands about all the people Benny Hinn leads astray...because without followers who wanted what he was selling, he would not exist as a leader.
Apparently, he forgot about the theif who was crucified alongside Christ.
Apparently, he forgot about the theif who was crucified alongside Christ.
...yep. As the old saying goes, "None are so blind as those who refuse to see."
I attended one of those churches for a few years. Not because I believed in their "way" but because it was close by and we had our grand kids in their Sunday School.
The Pastor was a great preacher in that he preached against sin constantly but always ended up begging the membership to "rededicate their lives" for Christ.
...yep. As the old saying goes, "None are so blind as those who refuse to see."
I attended one of those churches for a few years. Not because I believed in their "way" but because it was close by and we had our grand kids in their Sunday School.
The Pastor was a great preacher in that he preached against sin constantly but always ended up begging the membership to "rededicate their lives" for Christ.
The Lord knows them that are His. Not one has been lost save Judas Iscariot.
They can be identified by their fruit: chiefly love for one another------------------------------and their enemies.
"Father forgive them; they know not what they do."
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
They can be identified by their fruit: chiefly love for one another------------------------------and their enemies.
"Father forgive them; they know not what they do."
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
A general question to anyone re salvation as a fire escape:
Is the person who is genuinely convicted of sin, repents, believes, and accepts but is motivated by a fear of Hell well meaning and truly saved at that point?
If not, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God May not be as effective as thought.
Hell is real. Hell is hot. Fleeing the pit is not a primary motivation for repentance. The Holy Spirit does convict of sin, righteousness and judgement to come.
The world has not a clue: Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life. For one to believe that, one must be moved by The Spirit, The Holy--not the warm and fuzzy.
We live in a world of easy believe--repeat after me--now your are saved evangelism. Consequently, there are those unregenerated in high places. Re: Nicodemus, John 3:5 in context.
No one comes to the Father unless The Spirit draws.
Some call this Irresistible Grace--not hell fire and brimstone.
Check out the conversion of Saul, Book of Acts. See also what Paul did after conversion.
The world will not be won to Christ. The Lord knows them that are His. Not one has been lost save Judas Iscariot.
Preach the Word.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
The world has not a clue: Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life. For one to believe that, one must be moved by The Spirit, The Holy--not the warm and fuzzy.
We live in a world of easy believe--repeat after me--now your are saved evangelism. Consequently, there are those unregenerated in high places. Re: Nicodemus, John 3:5 in context.
No one comes to the Father unless The Spirit draws.
Some call this Irresistible Grace--not hell fire and brimstone.
Check out the conversion of Saul, Book of Acts. See also what Paul did after conversion.
The world will not be won to Christ. The Lord knows them that are His. Not one has been lost save Judas Iscariot.
Preach the Word.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
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