What if church rids itself…

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Consider if American Christianity were to be stripped of all of its modern bells and whistles. And all the stages and dramatic lighting was removed. All sensationalism and novelty evaporated. Think about if there was simply the preacher and God’s unadulterated truth. What would be your reaction?

 

[KenH]

What would be your reaction?

We have no bells and whistles at Grace Baptist Church of Ruston. My reaction is that I am very, very, very, very happy that God led to that fellowship of believers.

Grace Baptist Church of Ruston gathers together to "worship God in Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and place no confidence in the flesh."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have no bells and whistles at Grace Baptist Church of Ruston. My reaction is that I am very, very, very, very happy that God led to that fellowship of believers.

Grace Baptist Church of Ruston gathers together to "worship God in Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and place no confidence in the flesh."

And do they preach and teach the Predestination of all things otherwise known as Absolute Predestination?

 

[Deacon]

Re: "no bells and whistles"

My wife and I recently moved into a retirement community surrounded by Amish farmland.
We have attended a church about 20-25 minutes from our cottage for the last two weeks, it's probably the one we will choose.
It's a large congregation, three services. we've attended only the first at 8:15.
Everything new! Music band, drums, electric guitar, piano and strings.
They are "on-line" with sermons and offerings (oddly of the three churches we attended none of them pass the basket anymore).
They have all the bells and whistles except that they have no coffee cafe.

On the Sunday drive to church we pass groups of boys, and groups of girls, walking to church in their black garb and straw hats.
Mom and dad, with perhaps very young children travel by horse drawn carriage.
They travel down the roads and through the fields to a nearby farm (I've heard that the farm location rotates)
Their church appears to be well attended, about 10 buggies on the front lawn.
I'd guess they start around 8 or 9, after the horses are attended.
I see them traveling home around 2-3 o'clock, before dark.
They do church the old fashioned way, no electricity, wood burning stove for heat, slow a capella singing without harmony, sermons might be in Pennsylvania Dutch.
They do like their coffee strong!

Rob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Re: "no bells and whistles"

My wife and I recently moved into a retirement community surrounded by Amish farmland.
We have attended a church about 20-25 minutes from our cottage for the last two weeks, it's probably the one we will choose.
It's a large congregation, three services. we've attended only the first at 8:15.
Everything new! Music band, drums, electric guitar, piano and strings.
They are "on-line" with sermons and offerings (oddly of the three churches we attended none of them pass the basket anymore).
They have all the bells and whistles except that they have no coffee cafe.

On the Sunday drive to church we pass groups of boys, and groups of girls, walking to church in their black garb and straw hats.
Mom and dad, with perhaps very young children travel by horse drawn carriage.
They travel down the roads and through the fields to a nearby farm (I've heard that the farm location rotates)
Their church appears to be well attended, about 10 buggies on the front lawn.
I'd guess they start around 8 or 9, after the horses are attended.
I see them traveling home around 2-3 o'clock, before dark.
They do church the old fashioned way, no electricity, wood burning stove for heat, slow a capella singing without harmony, sermons might be in Pennsylvania Dutch.
They do like their coffee strong!

Rob

They also bake from scratch several delicious cakes and pies. I can’t eat them cause I’m diabetic and they put allot of sugar in them. My wife, a humanitarian type advocacy for animals dislikes many of them for mistreating animals but that’s not all the Amish so…

 

[KenH]

And do they preach and teach the Predestination of all things otherwise known as Absolute Predestination?

We humans use the term "Absolute Predestination" and I have no problem with it and have no problem using it myself. But I also like what Gilbert Beebe wrote: "Predestination...does not require to be qualified by prefixing to it the word absolute, as the predestination of God must of necessity be absolute in every particular. Jehovah is an absolute God, and all that he purposes or performs must be absolute. There can be no fiction nor anything merely nominal with him. Predestination is destination beforehand, and as nothing can be before hand, or subsequent with him, the term as it is used in the scriptures is used in reference to our finite state, as creatures of time; or rather as creatures of God, but for the present, in the time state of existence. God inhabits eternity, and all things are present with him. The progression of time and development of events can add nothing to his stock of knowledge. We his creatures may and we certainly do, live and learn. He has himself called our attention to the fact that he has declared the end from the beginning, saying, my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure." - rest of article at Absolute Predestination - Gilbert Beebe.

The answer as to whether the Biblical teaching of predestination(Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:3-12) is declared at Grace Baptist Church of Ruston, the answer is a definitive yes.

 

[MrW]

Consider if American Christianity were to be stripped of all of its modern bells and whistles. And all the stages and dramatic lighting was removed. All sensationalism and novelty evaporated. Think about if there was simply the preacher and God’s unadulterated truth. What would be your reaction?

My church doesn’t have that junk.

If it did, I would not go there.

 

[JonC]

I think it depends on what we mean by "bells and whistles".

Does maintaining a building, with the expense of a building, equate to "bells and whistles"? Sometimes I think we'd be better off gathering in homes.

I would not attend a church that consisted only of a preacher giving a sermon (that is not "church"). But I also find things like stage lighting and smoke machines distracting....so I'd pass on that as well.



What I want is honest worship. People giving testimonies, reading God's Word, uplifting one another, exercising their gifts (teaching, playing instruments, preaching, etc.). But I'd like to see this as a community rather than a service or organizational function.

The only "bell and whistle" I want is air conditioning.

 

[tyndale1946]

Singing, Praying, Preaching... Singing with the mouth organ ( not the Harmonica)... The God given one... Don't ring the bells, blow the gospel trumpet and raise your voices in praise to God, and don't whistle... Give me that old time religion!... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Singing, Praying, Preaching... Singing with the mouth organ ( not the Harmonica)... The God given one... Don't ring the bells, blow the gospel trumpet and raise your voices in praise to God, and don't whistle... Give me that old time religion!... Brother Glen

Amazing Grace

 

[old regular]

Consider if American Christianity were to be stripped of all of its modern bells and whistles. And all the stages and dramatic lighting was removed. All sensationalism and novelty evaporated. Think about if there was simply the preacher and God’s unadulterated truth. What would be your reaction?

That exactly what we have in Adair, County ,Kentucky at the Blessed Hope Old Regular Primitive Baptist not very many people but the ones that are there are happy to be there.

 

[Marooncat79]

Consider if American Christianity were to be stripped of all of its modern bells and whistles. And all the stages and dramatic lighting was removed. All sensationalism and novelty evaporated. Think about if there was simply the preacher and God’s unadulterated truth. What would be your reaction?

Good!

we don’t have bands or “special music” or even the American Flag which is a great thing

we certainly do not have special lighting effects

 

[Marooncat79]

I think it depends on what we mean by "bells and whistles".

Does maintaining a building, with the expense of a building, equate to "bells and whistles"? Sometimes I think we'd be better off gathering in homes.

I would not attend a church that consisted only of a preacher giving a sermon (that is not "church"). But I also find things like stage lighting and smoke machines distracting....so I'd pass on that as well.



What I want is honest worship. People giving testimonies, reading God's Word, uplifting one another, exercising their gifts (teaching, playing instruments, preaching, etc.). But I'd like to see this as a community rather than a service or organizational function.

The only "bell and whistle" I want is air conditioning.

“Testimonies” can get waaaay out of hand and very unbiblical. Just please be careful

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That exactly what we have in Adair, County ,Kentucky at the Blessed Hope Old Regular Primitive Baptist not very many people but the ones that are there are happy to be there.

And that is exactly what I prefer in my own but alas… not to be found where I live. It’s even rejected and made to be viewed as strange. So I’m stuck in a moment in time that precludes me from attending modern church services while I long for the kind of services that P B churches provide. Thank God for the internet where I can listen to services like Little Union Primitive Baptist Church in Florida.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We humans use the term "Absolute Predestination" and I have no problem with it and have no problem using it myself. But I also like what Gilbert Beebe wrote: "Predestination...does not require to be qualified by prefixing to it the word absolute, as the predestination of God must of necessity be absolute in every particular. Jehovah is an absolute God, and all that he purposes or performs must be absolute. There can be no fiction nor anything merely nominal with him. Predestination is destination beforehand, and as nothing can be before hand, or subsequent with him, the term as it is used in the scriptures is used in reference to our finite state, as creatures of time; or rather as creatures of God, but for the present, in the time state of existence. God inhabits eternity, and all things are present with him. The progression of time and development of events can add nothing to his stock of knowledge. We his creatures may and we certainly do, live and learn. He has himself called our attention to the fact that he has declared the end from the beginning, saying, my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure." - rest of article at Absolute Predestination - Gilbert Beebe.

The answer as to whether the Biblical teaching of predestination(Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:3-12) is declared at Grace Baptist Church of Ruston, the answer is a definitive yes.

Gilbert Beebe? You mean the guy from Middletown NY who destroyed churches in the north East because of his errorant Calvinist teachings! That Gilbert Beebe LOL! WOW

 

[KenH]

Gilbert Beebe?

I have no knowledge of the Gilbert Beebe who wrote the article I posted. It was an article I found at Welcome to Pristine Grace.

I posted it as it is about absolute predestination and you had asked, "And do they preach and teach the Predestination of all things otherwise known as Absolute Predestination?" And, yes, absolute predestination is preached at Grace Baptist Church of Ruston. The article I posted is not on the Grace Baptist Church of Ruston website; I want to be clear about that. Here are the Articles of Faith posted on the church's website: Articles of Faith

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have no knowledge of the Gilbert Beebe who wrote the article I posted. It was an article I found at Welcome to Pristine Grace.

I posted it as it is about absolute predestination and you had asked, "And do they preach and teach the Predestination of all things otherwise known as Absolute Predestination?" And, yes, absolute predestination is preached at Grace Baptist Church of Ruston. The article I posted is not on the Grace Baptist Church of Ruston website; I want to be clear about that. Here are the Articles of Faith posted on the church's website: Articles of Faith

Where is “Providence” in all this? How does it contrast with Absolute Predestination of all things? I’m curious because I’m a Primitive Baptist who believes in a conditional predestination as well as providence.

 

[KenH]

Gilbert Beebe? You mean the guy from Middletown NY who destroyed churches in the north East because of his errorant Calvinist teachings! That Gilbert Beebe LOL! WOW

I have done some brief research on Gilbert Beebe. I have not come across anything he was teaching that I disagree with based on the Bible, at not based on, as I said, a brief search. What do you think he taught that was "errant'?

 

[KenH]

Where is “Providence” in all this?

Could you expand on that concern of yours?

 

[KenH]

I have done some brief research on Gilbert Beebe. I have not come across anything he was teaching that I disagree with based on the Bible, at not based on, as I said, a brief search. What do you think he taught that was "errant'?

I should probably add that I seriously doubt that I can find another person with whom I agree 100% on everything; for that matter I don't agree with myself 100% of the time(thus when something doesn't work out I can mentally fuss at myself with "You should have known better." LOL)

So I would expect to not totally agree with Gilbert Beebe. I am pretty much basing what I know so far based on this:

"Gilbert Beebe (1800-1881) was an American Primitive Baptist preacher. In 1826 he was appointed pastor of a Baptist Church in New Vernon, New York, where he remained until his death. In 1832, he started a magazine called the “Signs of the Times”, which he continued to edit also until his death. This Primitive Baptist magazine (1832) was the American counter-part for the Strict Baptist magazines in England—the Gospel Standard (1835) and the Earthen Vessel (1845). That which tied these magazines together was a shared belief in the absolute predestination of God and a full and free gospel unencumbered by the free-will, duty-faith and free offers of men (Hyper-Calvinism). In fact, when William Gadsby (the father of the founder of the “Gospel Standard” magazine) died in the year 1844, Beebe included his obituary in the “Signs of the Times”, giving thanks to the Lord for his life and ministry." - The Life And Ministry Of Gilbert Beebe – The Baptist Particular (baptists.net)

Now, since I am also a supralapsarian(or a so-called hyper-Calvinist), and William Gadsby is one my favorite preachers - Sermons & Devotionals by William Gadsby (bibleportal.com) - and he appreciated Gadsby, that tends to make me like Gilbert Beebe.