What is a "feminist'?

>>Originally posted by Headcoveredlady:
6)She does not wear modest apparel.

8) She does not learn in silence.

20) She is unconcerned about gender distinction in clothing and appearances.

23) She wears the attire of a harlot.<<

Can you be a bit more specific on these?

>>22) When her husband suggests that they do something she asks, "Are you sure what about this other way?"<<

Not sure I get the full idea behind the example you are giving here. As his "help mate" why am not able to suggest things/counter suggest? submissive does not equal doormat!!!

 

hsmom3, Scripture allows the church to help those who are TRUE widows... and gives VERY specific guidelines. It includes saying the young widows should remarry. A TRUE widow is over 60 and has no surviving children or relatives to care for her needs. Sue did what was right according to scripture.

Diane

[ July 09, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

Thank you, Diane. I'd forgotten about the age part.

hsmom3

 

Hello Dina and Welcome,
I don't think I have "met" you before. Sure I will be a bit more specific.

6) Modest apparel is from 1 Timothy 2:9-15 and our command to have the beauty of inward quietness as laid out in 1 Peter 3.

8) A woman is to learn in silence 1 Timothy 2:9-15, 1 Cor 14:34-36. If married she is to learn from her own husband at home when she has a question.

20) Dueteronomy 22:5, teaches it is an abomination for people to cross dress. Abomination is a pretty strong word and I doubt that God changed His mind on what an abomination is because women decided they wanted to wear the pants both figuratively and literally in our society.

23) Attire of a harlot is from Proverbs 7. The Proverbs 7 woman is the anti-godly woman.

22) Ephesians 5:22 says we women are to submit as unto the Lord. 1 Peter 3 says we are to be like Sarah who submitted by calling Abraham lord. She did not fight back when he lied and she ended up in the Harem.

Do we question our husbands leadership. Is that submitting as unto the Lord? If it were Jesus standing there instead of your husband would you question His leadership?

 

>>Do we question our husbands leadership. Is that submitting as unto the Lord? If it were Jesus standing there instead of your husband would you question His leadership?<<

No, I do not question Christ's leadership, but then Christ is also....well Christ.

My husband is human, therefore not Christ, and I as his wife and help mate can bring up different aspects of a choice or different ramifications of that choice that he may not think of. I submit to my husband, but as we are also in a marriage, the two becoming ONE, we both voice opinions, ideas, and possibilities of choices so that we make the right choice for US.

 

hsmom3: I don't believe I said it was a sin to be on welfare. I said I felt that I would have been more out of the will of God to go on welfare rather than work.

Yes, the churches have fallen down in that responsibility. But, I don't feel that gives me the right to turn to the government when I am able-bodied and able to work and provide for my own.

This has nothing to do with anyone else being on welfare. This is just how I feel about myself. I understand that there are times when people must go on welfare. But there are many more times when they could work if they wanted to.

God provided me with work...so I worked. And the whole time I worked, I was paying other people (on welfare) taxes so they could stay home with their children.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Blessings,
Sue

 

Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord."

Submit: place yourself underneath.

As unto the Lord: as if he were the Lord.

Is my husband perfect? No. But, it is not conditional. It does not say when he gets right with the Lord. It says as unto the Lord.

Because if we are doing this right we will give a picture of the church submitting to Christ as evidenced in the rest of the chapter.

Does the church have authority to question Christ?

Which verse says that the church has authority to do this?

 

I don't disagree with what the Bible says, just the interpretation of it thru you.
All I can say in answer to what you are saying is that I agree to disagree.
And just to make sure I even asked my husband if when I ask him if he is sure about something or offer a alternative suggestion if he viewed it as me NOT being submissive. His answer was no.

I think you and I view the Prov. 31 woman differently.

10 [3] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

Confidence in her opinion as they are a TEAM.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

SHE considers the field. Don't see where she consulted her husband on this.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.
21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

SHE IS clothed in fine linen and purple. So it DOES say what she wears.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.
26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
Doesn't say that speaks with wisdom only to other women and children.
27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."
30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

This woman is a : manufacturer, importer, manager, realtor, farmer, seamstress, upholsterer, and merchant.

Like I said, I do submit to my husband. But, I think that he and I view our marriage a bit differently than you and your husband. We do devotions together. We read the Bible together. We both discuss what it means. We come to decisions together. We have respect for each other. We view our marriage as equal partners both giving it 100%. We have a rule in our house that if we are deciding something and we don't agree then whatever it is, is then put on hold til we do agree. We view this as a partnership with EQUAL stock. Actually, we both submit to each other.
There are things that I want to do that he "goes along with" as well as things that he wants that I "go along with". We both feel that is how it is supposed to be FOR US. I am in no way saying that waht works for us, should be what is for everyone. We have been married now for almost 11 years, we have 2 wonderful kids, and we share in the responsiblities of the kids, house, and marriage.

We have bought 2 houses, rented a few apt's, bought and traded in cars, chosen churches to attend, moved half-way cross country 3 times, etc. All of it was done with him REQUESTING and/or RESPECTING my opinion. And to be completely honest he left the final decision on a few of those up to me.

I happen to be a very strong willed christian woman. I know that I have a brain, that GOD gave me to use, as well as opinions, ideas, and convictions. But you know what? I don't think my husband would have me any other way.

 

Dina,
So you are saying that Christ submits to the church as it submits to Him?

 

>>Dina, So you are saying that Christ submits to the church as it submits to Him?<<

>>I'm not Dina and I will let her speak for herself, but I think we need a pastor or preacher to come in and answer this question correctly.
As Dina has said our husbands are human. We are one with our husbands. You seem to be putting Husbands on the same level as Christ. Christ is our Lord and Savior. He is above all others. AS Christians, we do not have to go through anyone to speak to or worship Jesus. We go to the Father through Jesus.<<

No, and don't words in my mouth as to what I mean. I think that long rambling post about my marriage should have let you know what I am saying. I agree that you are attempting to put our husbands on the same level as Christ.

When your husband suggests a restuarant to go to and it is not what you want to eat, do you sit there demurely, knowing that you hate everything on the menu? Or do you "suggest"- "I'm don't care for that, how bout somewhere else?" Or a movie that you have no desire to see? A place for vacation? Do you not have any input on those things?

Where does your opinion count in your marriage? You may not be meaning to, but the way you are presenting your marriage, it doesn't.

 

I am not putting husbands on the same level as Christ. The Word of God says to submit as unto the Lord. What does that mean to you?


I asked my husband yesterday what a feminist is. He said it is any woman who thinks for herself apart from her salvation experience. My husband hates it when I question him. He detests it. I am sure most men do not like to be questioned by their wives when they lead.

Truthfully, we do not partake of movies. But, we do eat out. And what a blessing it is to allow my husband to lead in ALL areas. I have found that my whining and complaining is not a blessing to him.

It makes him DOUBT his leadership abilities. How blessed it makes my husband feel if I trust EVERY MOVE HE MAKES.

I did not say he was perfect. But, I can help him and bless him by allowing him to lead in everything, even what restauraunt we go to.

I have found that since practicing this he wants to bless me even more by asking me where I want to go at times.

I am not perfect in not whining/complaining when my husband makes a decision. But, I want to be more like Sarah in this area and not Eve.

 

>>I asked my husband yesterday what a feminist is. He said it is any woman who thinks for herself apart from her salvation experience.<<

I have nothing to reply to this other than shock!!!!!! And bewilderment as to the many women of the bible who were praised for thinking for themselves.

>>My husband hates it when I question him. He detests it. I am sure most men do not like to be questioned by their wives when they lead.<<

Subjective as to what one man terms as being questioned.


>>Truthfully, we do not partake of movies. But, we do eat out. And what a blessing it is to allow my husband to lead in ALL areas. I have found that my whining and complaining is not a blessing to him. It makes him DOUBT his leadership abilities. How blessed it makes my husband feel if I trust EVERY MOVE HE MAKES.<<

By speaking up and letting him know that a paticular eatery is not where you want to go to is whining and complaining??? You lost me there. If my voicing my opinion as to where to eat made my dh question his leadership abilities, we would far more problems than an undecisive, picky wife as to where to eat.

>>I did not say he was perfect. But, I can help him and bless him by allowing him to lead in everything, even what restauraunt we go to. I have found that since practicing this he wants to bless me even more by asking me where I want to go at times.<<

My husband also tends to ask where. I normally respond with " Oh just about anywhere but..." Or "I don't know" then he will suggest a place and I will give feedback by saying yea or nay.

 

Well MY husband (of almost 33 years) will ask what I'm hungry for!

Maybe it's the way you 'question' your husband. I've found, if I think Jim is making what I think is a wrong decision, I can wait a while and then say something like "Honey, I was thinking about XYZ and wondered if we did it ABC if it would make it easier?" That way I'm not implying he is wrong but just offering another way of doing something. He may not change his mind but he's very open to hearing my thoughts on everything. I've also used "Honey, I was reading my Bible today and in XYZ it says ABC and that got me to thinking about the way we're going to handle PDQ"...

Diane

 

Diane,
That sounds like a very humble way to speak to our husbands. Thank you for that wise advice.

For me personally my husband does not like when I tell him what Bible verses mean. So, I have switched over from that to praying and fasting. That seems to work much better, (WITHOUT WORDS).

 

HCL... WHERE did I say I tell my husband what a Bible verse means?

I said I tell him I was reading something in scripture and it got me thinking about how we had decided to handle something. That is all.

However, MY husband knows that I have much more knowledge of the Bible than he and will ask me about things on occassion, such as where something is found or who said what. Our upbringing was different. I was SBC and in church every time the door was open. He was American Baptist and went to service Sunday mornings only.

Diane

 

I thought that is what you meant that you were explaining the Bible verses to him.

I am mostly speaking of my self though.

 

>>Maybe it's the way you 'question' your husband.<<

I think that is where the difference of interpretation is coming in as we-my dh and I- do not view it as "questioning"

>>I've found, if I think Jim is making what I think is a wrong decision, I can wait a while and then say something like "Honey, I was thinking about XYZ and wondered if we did it ABC if it would make it easier?" That way I'm not implying he is wrong but just offering another way of doing something. He may not change his mind but he's very open to hearing my thoughts on everything. I've also used "Honey, I was reading my Bible today and in XYZ it says ABC and that got me to thinking about the way we're going to handle PDQ"...<<

That is how things are normally handled at our house too. Most major decisions are handled between the two of us. We discuss it. If we can not come to an agreement on both of saying yes or no, then we pray and think about it for a while then come back and discuss it more. Usually be then we reach an agreement.

 

I noticed that those who support feminism or "mutual submission" also teach that pants are acceptable clothing for Christian women.

It just proves what I have believed for a while now, that what is in your heart WILL come out in the way you dress.