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Yelsew
Guest
Nor did my post speak to only one of your posts! But thanks for the clarification of the one.
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What is an Arminian?
- Thread starter ScottEmerson
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Scott replies
And yet this DOES show the distinctives for the Arminian view in the CONTEXT of an Arminian vs Calvinist discussion.
In the CONTEXT of Christian vs Universalists - the point would have been "The gate is WIDE and the way is BROAD that leads to destruction and MANY are those who ENTER by it" - fitting well with the Luke 8:4-14 scenaro where only 1 out of 4 ground types listed is saved in the end.
Perhaps I should have added that one to the list as follows.
An Arminian is someone who reads "God so loved the WORLD that He gave his only son" and believes that in fact God DID love the World.
An Arminian is someone who reads "He was the atoning sacrifice for Our Sins and NOT for Our sins only but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" and believes it was actually for the WHOLE WORLD.
An Arminian is someone that reads "I will draw ALL Mankind unto Me" John 12:32 and believes Christ actually draws ALL Mankind to Himself.
An Arminian is someone that reads "The Spirit convicts the WORLD of Sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16 and - believes it.
An Arminian is one who believes the Luke 8:4-14 scenario to show TWO examples of someone who is DEAD in sin and then SPRINGS to LIFE in Christ - but later dies back to the dead in sin state by FAILING TO REMAIN in the living state - failing to ENDURE in the SAVED - state of LIVING in Christ
Hope that helps solidify that distinction.
In Christ,
Bob
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Yelsew
Guest
That certainly clarifies the issue of "What is an Arminian?"
I heard some children singing "Jesus Loves Me" the other day and I thought to myself, "Should Calvinist allow children to sing that song?" It may be untrue for some of those children. Should you encourage children to sing something that is potentally false?
I guess you could argue that Calvinist believe God loves them all, but just not to the same degree. So the song should say, "Jesus loves me but maybe not as much as someone else this I know for the Bible tells me so"
I guess you could argue that Calvinist believe God loves them all, but just not to the same degree. So the song should say, "Jesus loves me but maybe not as much as someone else this I know for the Bible tells me so"
No, really in the finite view of man's knowledge it is impossible for any to say that a group of children anywhere at anytime are not part of the elect. This song would naturally involve the common Grace of God.
But I would have put my blue shirt on and rushed in there and broke the scene up if I had been there
It is obious from the N.T. that children did not sing this song in the apostolic church.
Just joking, but if it will help you sleep tonight, I have thought about this question before, I thought of it by my ownself
God Bless.
bro. Dallas
But I would have put my blue shirt on and rushed in there and broke the scene up if I had been there
It is obious from the N.T. that children did not sing this song in the apostolic church.
Just joking, but if it will help you sleep tonight, I have thought about this question before, I thought of it by my ownself
God Bless.
bro. Dallas
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Brother Bill,
This sounds like a review of that old "Calvinists use Arminian methods of Evangelism" thread.
Basically IF A calvinist WERE to use CALVINIST methods of evangelism it would sound like this
So in the end - the Arminian wins - because the Calvinist after debating the Arminian all evening - must make Arminian APPEALS in evangelism since they are the only ones that work.
In Christ,
Bob
This sounds like a review of that old "Calvinists use Arminian methods of Evangelism" thread.
Basically IF A calvinist WERE to use CALVINIST methods of evangelism it would sound like this
But of course - Calvinists use ARMINIAN terms instead "God LOVES you. God is calling you today to accept Christ as your savior. Won't you come forward. Come today for you may not have tomorrow".
So in the end - the Arminian wins - because the Calvinist after debating the Arminian all evening - must make Arminian APPEALS in evangelism since they are the only ones that work.
In Christ,
Bob
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Yelsew
Guest
Something tells me there's more to this "loved the world" than what arminians make of it. </font>[/QUOTE]Seems to me All but the Calvinists accept the fact that GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN/ON HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
John 17:1 Clearly indicates that Jesus succeeded in his mission because 11 of the original 12 whom the Father had given to Jesus, believed that Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ. That single belief is the core belief of Christianity! Without it you have no Christianity!
And of course we know what happened to #12 whom God ordained to betray Jesus to the existing religious establishment so that establishment could slaughter the sacraficial Lamb of God, that taketh away the sins of the world, thus completing the work of the Father. Now it is up to man to hear the word, believe, and know, thus receiving life eternal; or not believe, and perish in their own self condemnation.
Further evidence:
yeah, lets remove sovereignty and judgement, keep going and you ain't going to have much Bible left
why?1. Man can choose to beleive or not to believe,
2. Man can choose to 'unbelieve' after he has chosen to believe,
3. Man condemns himself
How does one who possesses the image of God condemn himself?
How does one choose to believe when the preaching of the cross is foolishness to him?
How does one choose to 'unbelieve' when he has tasted the good things of God?
You continue to give authority to man that only God possesses...remember, I shall give my glory to no man...for my name's sake...keep them by thy name...
What is sacred to you? Seeds in Glass Jars? Life springing from itself? Just wondering. Because as confusing as my posts are, I must say...only the Grace of God saves; and this only because of the reconciliation found in the Blood of the Lamb, it is not because man validates it; this strips God of all power and authority whether you admit it or not. The idea of Sovereignty is not democratic, if this what people in this country believe to be sovereignty we are in real trouble. No, to be sovereign is to have, to possesses in the sovereign himself and none other the right of life and death, this is sovereignty, God is not waiting for the various political parties to report the denominational precincts to see if His Lamb is elected the Saviour of the World. No, God has declared Him the Saviour and He has manifested Him in the Flesh, provided Him as the sacrifice, He has purged us of our sins, He has resurrected from the dead by the Spirit of Holiness, He has ascended to the Right hand of God the Father, He is not waiting for men to believe this.
Bro. Dallas
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Yelsew
Guest
God established human belief in His only Begotten Son as the standard by which He, God gives eternal life. Therefore human unbelief is the standard by which man is condemned to perish in the lake of fire. That gives no power to man except the power over his own destiny. The destinations available are 'God given' eternal life or the 'God provided' lake of fire. There are no others options given unto man!
Something tells me there's more to this "loved the world" than what arminians make of it. </font>[/QUOTE]John 3:16 is talking about God's love for people. I John is talking about our love for material wealth, lusts, or sinful things of this world.
The Bible also tells us to love our enemies and to do good to those who hate us. Yet Calvinist teach that God hates his enemies and throws them into eternal torture without ever giving them an opportunity to be saved. Now that is a contradiction!
This argument is not valid.
Both side believe that God is only limited by his own sovereign will, we just disagree to what that sovereign will is.
We believe His will is that everyone is saved by Grace through faith.
You all believe His will is that a select few are saved by Grace through grace (faith is merely a sign of that salvation not the means unto it.)
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Calvinist on this thread are making themselves "appear to believe"
"God so Loved the WORLD where WORLD is defined as the Arbitrarily selected FEW of Matt 7. Having so Loved the that small WORLD - God gave His only begotton Son and Forced the ENTIRE world to BELIEVE on Him so that the ENTIRE WORLD would be SAVED when redefined down to the small-world of the arbitrarily selected FEW of Matt 7".
Of course - the Arminian position does not require that "rework" of the text.
In Christ,
Bob
Well, I guess I am now an 'invalid'.
I cannot view the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace as that which limits God; it is the thought that sinful man must choose while yet in his sins and under that influence to go against his nature, you still put too much authority on the creature.
Bro. dallas
I cannot view the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace as that which limits God; it is the thought that sinful man must choose while yet in his sins and under that influence to go against his nature, you still put too much authority on the creature.
Bro. dallas
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Yelsew
Guest
Man has no authority over God, but God gave man authority over his each and unique self, and requires man to choose between good and evil.
If God does the choosing for man that is no different than what Saddam Hussein did for the Iraqis.
You choose which is correct!
If God does the choosing for man that is no different than what Saddam Hussein did for the Iraqis.
You choose which is correct!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
God has "sovereignly chosen" to be just faithful and true.
God "sovereignly chose" to commit Himself to "So loving the world" that He gave His only Son. This is not "man committing God" it is God sovereignly CHOOSING to commit Himself to a course of action.
God sovereignly chose that His own Sovereign Word would declare Him to be "the Atoning sacrifice for OUR SINS and NOT OUR SINS only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD". 1John 2:2
God "sovereignly chose" that Christ should be "the Savior of the World" 1John 4( around vs 10)
Claiming that God should not be "obligated to make good on His own word" is simply a human way of defending Calvinism - it does not address the problem.
In Christ,
Bob
God "sovereignly chose" to commit Himself to "So loving the world" that He gave His only Son. This is not "man committing God" it is God sovereignly CHOOSING to commit Himself to a course of action.
God sovereignly chose that His own Sovereign Word would declare Him to be "the Atoning sacrifice for OUR SINS and NOT OUR SINS only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD". 1John 2:2
God "sovereignly chose" that Christ should be "the Savior of the World" 1John 4( around vs 10)
Claiming that God should not be "obligated to make good on His own word" is simply a human way of defending Calvinism - it does not address the problem.
In Christ,
Bob
It is? I always thought a contradiction was something like God telling us in one place to love our enemies and telling us in another to hate our enemies. I didn't know that God had to do exactly what He tells us to do. Your recent posts seem to know an awful lot about what God should do. Maybe you should tell Him so He can be obedient to your doctrines.