What Is Free Will?

[Reformed1689]

One of the classic arguments against election and predestination is the argument that we have free will and we all have the opportunity to come to God. But is that really true? This depends. It depends on what you mean by free will. Let’s look at what the Bible says about who will seek God.

First, let’s talk about free will. What is it? If by free will you mean every man is free to choose what he desires then, yes, I agree, there is free will. But if you mean that we have an equal choice with no influence or determiners then no, we do not have free will.

Who Seeks God?

 

[canadyjd]

One of the classic arguments against election and predestination is the argument that we have free will and we all have the opportunity to come to God. But is that really true? This depends. It depends on what you mean by free will. Let’s look at what the Bible says about who will seek God.

First, let’s talk about free will. What is it? If by free will you mean every man is free to choose what he desires then, yes, I agree, there is free will. But if you mean that we have an equal choice with no influence or determiners then no, we do not have free will.

Who Seeks God?

“Free will” is the second lie of Satan in the garden, right after “you shall not surely die.”

To to claim you will be “like God, knowing good and evil” means that, like God, they would always be able to chose the good instead of the evil.

Once they rebelled and their eyes were open to the knowledge of good and evil, they realized they were separated from God and exposed (naked) to His judgement and wrath.

People have “human will”, that is either enslaved to sin or enslaved to God. The will is never “free” from influence that affects all decisions; either our own sin nature, our culture, our friends and families, etc,,,

peace to you

 

[Reformed1689]

“Free will” is the second lie of Satan in the garden, right after “you shall not surely die.”

To to claim you will be “like God, knowing good and evil” means that, like God, they would always be able to chose the good instead of the evil.

Once they rebelled and their eyes were open to the knowledge of good and evil, they realized they were separated from God and exposed (naked) to His judgement and wrath.

People have “human will”, that is either enslaved to sin or enslaved to God. The will is never “free” from influence that affects all decisions; either our own sin nature, our culture, our friends and families, etc,,,

peace to you

Exactly. The idea of free will many here are trying to put forward as truth is nothing more than humanism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe it was Dr. James White who said, “A will that is free will choose nothing.”

 

[Revmitchell]

Dead men can neither choose nor reject anything.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Free will is Seen in the garden

Adam and Eve both had the choice. Do not eat of the tree, or eat of the tree

We make free will choices every day saved or not. Do we chose to commit this sin, or do we chose to nt commit this sin (use even non believers can obey commands, As paul made clear, even the gentiles who do not have the law. By nature. Etc etc.

We see free will in the job we take. In aspect.

Free will in its generality means you have choices to make, and your free to make those choices.

If you are not free to make a choice or are only limited to one choice. You do not have free will.

Which brings us to salvation.

Calvinism teaches that a non believer can not chose to recieve christ because they would never chose to do it. Where as a person who is born again will never chose to reject christ because they have been drawn, dragged, or whatever to hi, so he will never reject him

This is not free will

Free will is stated in john, 3, That God so loved the world he gave his holy son. That WHOEVER BELIEVES (free will) will nto perish, but has eternal life.

We must chose to recieve in faith what is offered. Or we chose to suffer our own fate.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe it was Dr. James White who said, “A will that is free will choose nothing.”

Yet every day everyone choses things all day long. We chose what to eat, What to do. When to go to bed, Do we go to work, do we call in sick. Do we help our neighbor, do we help ourself.

The notion that people walk around like puppets blindly doing what the puppet master wants them to do with no free will is not found in true life

 

[AustinC]

Free will is Seen in the garden

Adam and Eve both had the choice. Do not eat of the tree, or eat of the tree

We make free will choices every day saved or not. Do we chose to commit this sin, or do we chose to nt commit this sin (use even non believers can obey commands, As paul made clear, even the gentiles who do not have the law. By nature. Etc etc.

We see free will in the job we take. In aspect.

Free will in its generality means you have choices to make, and your free to make those choices.

If you are not free to make a choice or are only limited to one choice. You do not have free will.

Which brings us to salvation.

Calvinism teaches that a non believer can not chose to recieve christ because they would never chose to do it. Where as a person who is born again will never chose to reject christ because they have been drawn, dragged, or whatever to hi, so he will never reject him

This is not free will

Free will is stated in john, 3, That God so loved the world he gave his holy son. That WHOEVER BELIEVES (free will) will nto perish, but has eternal life.

We must chose to recieve in faith what is offered. Or we chose to suffer our own fate.

God certainly gave Adam and Eve the freedom to make that rebellious choice. Tell me, how free were they to enter back in to that said garden???

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God certainly gave Adam and Eve the freedom to make that rebellious choice. Tell me, how free were they to enter back in to that said garden???

Are you saying because God locked them out of the garden as a result of their free will choice. They no longer had free will?

We suffer the results of our free will every day, People get divorced because in free will they chose to cheat on their spouse, and have no free will to get back with their wife as a result. Do they now lack free will?

Your question makes no sense my friend.

 

[canadyjd]

Free will is Seen in the garden

Adam and Eve both had the choice. Do not eat of the tree, or eat of the tree

We make free will choices every day saved or not. Do we chose to commit this sin, or do we chose to nt commit this sin (use even non believers can obey commands, As paul made clear, even the gentiles who do not have the law. By nature. Etc etc.

We see free will in the job we take. In aspect.

Free will in its generality means you have choices to make, and your free to make those choices.

If you are not free to make a choice or are only limited to one choice. You do not have free will.

Which brings us to salvation.

Calvinism teaches that a non believer can not chose to recieve christ because they would never chose to do it. Where as a person who is born again will never chose to reject christ because they have been drawn, dragged, or whatever to hi, so he will never reject him

This is not free will

Free will is stated in john, 3, That God so loved the world he gave his holy son. That WHOEVER BELIEVES (free will) will nto perish, but has eternal life.

We must chose to recieve in faith what is offered. Or we chose to suffer our own fate.

Adam and Eve were not yet afflicted with a sin nature when they chose to eat of the fruit. In that sense, they had “free will”.

But even then, Eve’s decision was influenced by Satan’s lies and Adam’s decision was influenced by his wife, who brought him the fruit.

If you define “free will” as “you have choices to make”, then you generalize the concept of “free will” so as to make it meaningless. Of course everyone makes choices.

The question of “free will” is always the “why” we make the choices we do. Scripture tells us the soul that sins is a slave to sin. Paul spends several chapters in Romans arguing people are enslaved to sin and act (make.choices) according to the effect sin has on them.

Freedom from sin comes only when we are freed by Jesus Christ (If the Son sets you free you are free indeed), at which point we become slaves to Christ Jesus.

BTW, the “whosoever believes” of John 3:16, has already been limited a few verses earlier when Jesus says (in reference to being born again) that the wind (Spirit) blows where it wills……, so is everyone born of the Spirit.

peace to you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Adam and Eve were not yet afflicted with a sin nature when they chose to eat of the fruit. In that sense, they had “free will”.

But even then, Eve’s decision was influenced by Satan’s lies and Adam’s decision was influenced by his wife, who brought him the fruit.

everyones decisions are based on influences our life influences and the people around us influence our decisions no matter we chose. We are still free to do those things
-

If you define “free will” as “you have choices to make”, then you generalize the concept of “free will” so as to make it meaningless. Of course everyone makes choices.

The question of “free will” is always the “why” we make the choices we do. Scripture tells us the soul that sins is a slave to sin. Paul spends several chapters in Romans arguing people are enslaved to sin and act (make.choices) according to the effect sin has on them.

Freedom from sin comes only when we are freed by Jesus Christ (If the Son sets you free you are free indeed), at which point we become slaves to Christ Jesus.

BTW, the “whosoever believes” of John 3:16, has already been limited a few verses earlier when Jesus says (in reference to being born again) that the wind (Spirit) blows where it wills……, so is everyone born of the Spirit.

peace to you

The tax collector chose to get in his knee and cry out for mercy

he was not doing good he was not being righteous. The thought that us choosing to call out to god is a good act is not found. It is acting on an influence. (God) And chowing to react to it

some react like the tax collector. Some like the Pharisee. Some like other people. But everyone reacts.

 

[Reformed1689]

everyones decisions are based on influences our life influences and the people around us influence our decisions no matter we chose. We are still free to do those things
-
The tax collector chose to get in his knee and cry out for mercy

he was not doing good he was not being righteous. The thought that us choosing to call out to god is a good act is not found. It is acting on an influence. (God) And chowing to react to it

some react like the tax collector. Some like the Pharisee. Some like other people. But everyone reacts.

Read John 6:44, then go back and read verses 37-39. Do you think, based on Scripture, everyone is free to come to Christ? Jesus states otherwise.

 

[AustinC]

Are you saying because God locked them out of the garden as a result of their free will choice. They no longer had free will?

We suffer the results of our free will every day, People get divorced because in free will they chose to cheat on their spouse, and have no free will to get back with their wife as a result. Do they now lack free will?

Your question makes no sense my friend.

Are you saying because God locked them out of the garden as a result of their free will choice. They no longer had free will?

We suffer the results of our free will every day, People get divorced because in free will they chose to cheat on their spouse, and have no free will to get back with their wife as a result. Do they now lack free will?

Your question makes no sense my friend.

Sure my question makes sense.
Tell me, how free Adam and Eve were to enter back in to that said garden???
Could they choose to go freely back in?

It's not complicated...and you know the answer. You see, Adam and Eve were bound to their master, sin. They had to hope in the Promise that God would send a Redeemer.

Sir, grace cannot be chosen. Grace must choose to be extended by one who can actually extend it.

 

[canadyjd]

everyones decisions are based on influences our life influences and the people around us influence our decisions no matter we chose. We are still free to do those things
-
The tax collector chose to get in his knee and cry out for mercy

he was not doing good he was not being righteous. The thought that us choosing to call out to god is a good act is not found. It is acting on an influence. (God) And chowing to react to it

some react like the tax collector. Some like the Pharisee. Some like other people. But everyone reacts.

You are correct. Everyone’s decisions are based on influences.

You stated the tax collector “acting on an influence (God) and choosing to act in it”.

I agree with you and this is the heart of the reformed concept of “human will” vs. “free will as I understand it.

No one seeks God of their own “will” unless God first intervenes .in their lives.

I hope we can agree on that statement.

peace to you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Read John 6:44, then go back and read verses 37-39. Do you think, based on Scripture, everyone is free to come to Christ? Jesus states otherwise.

John 6: 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

Is it Gods fault they do not believe?

 

[Campion]

Read John 6:44, then go back and read verses 37-39. Do you think, based on Scripture, everyone is free to come to Christ? Jesus states otherwise.

RE: John 6:37-39, we know one Jesus personally chose did get away though:

"While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost EXCEPT the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

You cannot be lost unless you belonged to and were possessed by the person who lost you.


As for freely coming to Christ, Jesus states the following:

"If you find that I do not act like the son of my Father, then put no trust in me; but if I do, then let my actions convince you where I cannot; so you will recognize and learn to believe that the Father is in me, and I in him." (John 10:37-38)

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Luke 13:34)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure my question makes sense.
Tell me, how free Adam and Eve were to enter back in to that said garden???
Could they choose to go freely back in?

No it does not make sense, Because part of their punishment was that they could no longer go to the garden. They had free will to want to get back in, That does not mean they would be able.

.

It's not complicated...and you know the answer. You see, Adam and Eve were bound to their master, sin. They had to hope in the Promise that God would send a Redeemer.

Sir, grace cannot be chosen. Grace must choose to be extended by one who can actually extend it.

They had to hope.

That is free will my friend

Grace is offered to all. It does not mean all will receive it.

Once again, The tax collector did not earn his salvation because in desperation he called out.. He called out in desperation because he was powerless to save himself.

 

[Reformed1689]

John 6: 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

Is it Gods fault they do not believe?

Are you going to answer my post?

 

[Reformed1689]

RE: John 6:37-39, we know one Jesus personally chose did get away though:

"While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost EXCEPT the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

You cannot be lost unless you belonged to and were possessed by the person who lost you.


As for freely coming to Christ, Jesus states the following:

"If you find that I do not act like the son of my Father, then put no trust in me; but if I do, then let my actions convince you where I cannot; so you will recognize and learn to believe that the Father is in me, and I in him." (John 10:37-38)

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Luke 13:34)

And yet you didn't deal with my actual post. Telling.

 

[Campion]

And yet you didn't deal with my actual post. Telling.

I thought my quotations of Jesus made it clear. Telling you can't see it.

So yes, per the words of Jesus Christ in the Scripture, everyone is free to come to Christ.