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What Is Free Will?

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
Jesus said whever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

Your right, we do not get to chose who God saves. But he does ge to chose who he saved, And he chose to save those who believe.
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LOL, I am sure you don't recognize the circular oxymoronic statement you just made. Let me lay it out for you so you hopefully see it.

1) We don't get to choose.
2) God gets to choose.
3) We don't choose to believe and God chose the one who chose to believe.

LOL, I can't make it up. You canceled out your own assertion.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Did you ever see a Calvinist complain about me always posting anti-Calvinist posts. But no mention is made of the endless pro-Calvinist posts placed on the board.

1) Did the OP define free will? Nope.

2) Can a person choose to ignore a desire (say fleshly desire) and place his or her mind upon some spiritual things? What does scripture say?

3) Are fallen humans predisposed to sin? What does the bible say.

4) Can a human person ignore his or her predisposition and choose to follow his or her understanding of God's will? What does the bible say?
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Did Adam and Eve have the choice to enter into the Garden once God threw them out?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Did you ever see a Calvinist complain about me always posting anti-Calvinist posts. But no mention is made of the endless pro-Calvinist posts placed on the board.

1) Did the OP define free will? Nope.

2) Can a person choose to ignore a desire (say fleshly desire) and place his or her mind upon some spiritual things? What does scripture say?

3) Are fallen humans predisposed to sin? What does the bible say.

4) Can a human person ignore his or her predisposition and choose to follow his or her understanding of God's will? What does the bible say?
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1. Yes I did.
2. It says no.
3. Yes
4. No, not without a change in status from God. Nobody is righteous, nobody seeks God. Deny scripture if you want...
 
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Eternally Grateful

Active Member
AustinC said:
LOL, I am sure you don't recognize the circular oxymoronic statement you just made. Let me lay it out for you so you hopefully see it.

1) We don't get to choose.
2) God gets to choose.
3) We don't choose to believe and God chose the one who chose to believe.

LOL, I can't make it up. You canceled out your own assertion.
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Then God is evil

End of discussion

Take your attitude and go away. I am done speaking with you.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
Nope
They were chosen Because God knew they would believe.

Believe it or Not, God os omniscient. He predestined based on foreknowledge.

God can not go against his character, he cant claim to be a God of love, then sho a total lack of love to many
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And here is your error. You are basing this on a humanistic view of God. Your post is not based in Scripture.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reformed1689 said:
So it is all on their own?
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nothing i posted could reasonably be construed that way. It was the power of the gospel, the power of Gods word, it was the preacher who was sent.

Honestly the minimizing of the power of Gods word by augustinian deterministic theology is troublesome
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
nothing i posted could reasonably be construed that way. It was the power of the gospel, the power of Gods word, it was the preacher who was sent.

Honestly the minimizing of the power of Gods word by augustinian deterministic theology is troublesome
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Here's the problem, something made them believe. No it was not the Gospel, that was the activator. But not everyone who hears the Gospel believes. There is something else.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reformed1689 said:
Here's the problem, something made them believe. No it was not the Gospel, that was the activator. But not everyone who hears the Gospel believes. There is something else.
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Just because some believe and some dont doesnt negate the power of the gospel. It works that way because that is how God designed it.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
Just because some believe and some dont doesnt negate the power of the gospel. It works that way because that is how God designed it.
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I didn't say it negated the power of the Gospel, what I did say is there has to be another determining factor. They have to be given to Christ to come to him. That is before belief.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reformed1689 said:
I didn't say it negated the power of the Gospel, what I did say is there has to be another determining factor. They have to be given to Christ to come to him. That is before belief.
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Not how God designed it. The gospel is the only power necessary to believe. It has that much power. Hebrews 4:12
 
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Eternally Grateful

Active Member
Reformed1689 said:
And here is your error. You are basing this on a humanistic view of God. Your post is not based in Scripture.
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I am basing it n the worse of God. And not basing it on what some pastor told me

Jesus said himself he was sent to die fo the world so whoever believed will not die. In the same context he said whoever believes is not condemned whoever does nto believe is condemned already.

Now we can take Jesus at his word. Or we can twist his words to make him say something else.

God died for all.. Thats his right and what he claimed he did based on his love.

That does nt mean the world will be saved, God will not force his salvation on anyone..
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
Not how God designed it. The gospel is the only power necessary to believe. It has that much power. Hebrews 4:12
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You still have to deal with the fact that the only ones that come to Christ are the ones given by the Father and that happens before they come to Christ. Not to mention they were chosen before the foundation of the world. The Gospel is the activator, not the reason/cause.
 
C

Campion

Member
Reformed1689 said:
Simile, not metaphor. And again you put forth nonsense about Calvinism which you obviously do not understand.
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And the simile is the SHEEP, the same sheep which appear in the parable of the last judgement, where the SHEEP appear as a metaphor for the SAVED.

And Calvinism ONLY is true if Judas, once explicitly called a SHEEP by Jesus, is now in heaven looking down and smiling on you.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
I am basing it n the worse of God. And not basing it on what some pastor told me

Jesus said himself he was sent to die fo the world so whoever believed will not die. In the same context he said whoever believes is not condemned whoever does nto believe is condemned already.

Now we can take Jesus at his word. Or we can twist his words to make him say something else.

God died for all.. Thats his right and what he claimed he did based on his love.

That does nt mean the world will be saved, God will not force his salvation on anyone..
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I am basing my position on the Bible, not what some pastor told me. See how that works?

Jesus did not say he was sent to die for every individual. Show me one verse that states that. You will not find one. It says he came to save whoever believes. John 3 doesn't say who he died for specifically.

No, he did not die for all. If he did, all would be saved.
 
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