What is going on in Christian circles?

[abcgrad94]

It's not just me. Many of my friends and family have noticed what seems like an attack of hatefulness rearing its ugly head in the body of Christ. I've noticed it on the rise in churches, ministries, and even here on BB. I know this is a debate forum and things get heated, but lately, it's getting harder and harder to find true Christian love anywhere!

Seriously, I'm on several other NON-CHRISTIAN forums where people are more respectful and behave better than the Christians. I don't care how "true" your doctrines are, how "good" your church is, or how much you claim to love God. If we cannot, and do not have love for one another, how on earth can we expect people to even believe we are Christians? Without LOVE, we have NOTHING!

 

[Dr. Bob]

Agree. Moderators and Administrators are cracking down immediately. If you call a brother or sister "unsaved" or "not regenerated", you will be on the outside looking in.

If you don't like my free coffee in church, that is your right. To say it is not "spiritual" is a hateful myopic attack on a sister or brother. Same with a translation or another pastor, etc

We can debate and discuss without venom or hate.

(unless you are an evil *****)

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Agree. Moderators and Administrators are cracking down immediately. If you call a brother or sister "unsaved" or "not regenerated", you will be on the outside looking in.

To reiterate, I never said that. In fact, not only did I not say that, I even specified that my statement was based on the assumption that he was a Christian, thus, for the purposes of this conversation, saved and regenerated.

If you don't like my free coffee in church, that is your right. To say it is not "spiritual" is a hateful myopic attack on a sister or brother. Same with a translation or another pastor, etc

Nobody in that thread said that.

 

[abcgrad94]

Agree. Moderators and Administrators are cracking down immediately. If you call a brother or sister "unsaved" or "not regenerated", you will be on the outside looking in.

If you don't like my free coffee in church, that is your right. To say it is not "spiritual" is a hateful myopic attack on a sister or brother. Same with a translation or another pastor, etc

We can debate and discuss without venom or hate.

(unless you are an evil *****)

Thank you, Dr. Bob!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It's not just me. Many of my friends and family have noticed what seems like an attack of hatefulness rearing its ugly head in the body of Christ. I've noticed it on the rise in churches, ministries, and even here on BB. I know this is a debate forum and things get heated, but lately, it's getting harder and harder to find true Christian love anywhere!

Seriously, I'm on several other NON-CHRISTIAN forums where people are more respectful and behave better than the Christians. I don't care how "true" your doctrines are, how "good" your church is, or how much you claim to love God. If we cannot, and do not have love for one another, how on earth can we expect people to even believe we are Christians? Without LOVE, we have NOTHING!

The worst part is that they don't even seem to be basing it on anything. It all seems to be very personal, as if anybody who isn't in their clique is an interloper who needs to be run off.

If it was an argument that got heated, then I could understand. You just seperate, go back to your corners, cool down, and then try it again. But this is just animousity right out of the gate and for no apparent reason.

I'll give you a good example. In one thread, we were talking about feeding the homeless, I mentioned that I didn't believe that government programs were good for the poor, but that I've seen many private, non-profut, usually faith based, programs that had a great deal of success not only feeding the hungry and helping the poor, but actually helping them to climb out of the poverty hole.

I was very repsectful, very calm, didn't say a cross word to or about anything. All of a sudden, I'm attacked and told that I hate the poor and how I feel the poor are so inferior that I wouldn't help them. It wasn't the words or the tone that I found hurtful (because, honestly, there are two posters here who give me far worse than that every day). It was just the idea that something I shared in order to try to share something of myself, was thrown back in my face as an excuse to attack me for what, I don't even know.

In another, somebody showed a video of a girl who was supposed to be leading worship. I simply made a comment along the lines of "the girl's not bad, but typically, that's not what we mean when we talk about 'leading worship'". I was attacked up one side and down the other.

The only time I've ever seen anything like the hatred in this place is from the atheists on ChristianForums.

 

[mandym]

Agree. Moderators and Administrators are cracking down immediately. If you call a brother or sister "unsaved" or "not regenerated", you will be on the outside looking in.

If you don't like my free coffee in church, that is your right. To say it is not "spiritual" is a hateful myopic attack on a sister or brother. Same with a translation or another pastor, etc

We can debate and discuss without venom or hate.

(unless you are an evil *****)

Interesting, you told me if I was going to debate I should be able to just take it when others were less than kind to me.

 

[abcgrad94]

JDF, please don't hijack my thread the way you have several others, ok?

I think we ALL (myself included) need to step back and see why we're all becoming so defensive, so judgmental, so eager to be offended by every little thing, so eager to defend our own righteousness.

Maybe this is a sign of the end times, when the brethren can't even get along. It's not just here on the BB. Many of my ministry friends are facing discouragement, physical illness, deaths, family problems, etc. It seems every demon from hell wants to wreak havok on the church, and we are too busy biting and devouring one other to care.:tear:

 

[HAMel]

I think we ALL (myself included) need to step back and see why we're all becoming so defensive, so judgmental, so eager to be offended by every little thing, so eager to defend our own righteousness.

Ego?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Interesting, you told me if I was going to debate I should be able to just take it when others were less than kind to me.

We have to have "thick skins" when dealing with people who cannot demonstrate basic Christian courtesy or conduct. Sadly.

We are going to start giving "free 10-day vacations" from posting to the serious offenders whose whining is especially grievous since they are also the biggest culprits.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

JDF, please don't hijack my thread

I didn't realize that responding to the OP was "hijacking". I was under the impression that hijacking a thread was along the lines of attempting to change the subject of the thread and distract from the conversation as defined in the OP. Perhaps you have some other definition?

 

[abcgrad94]

I think we ALL (myself included) need to step back and see why we're all becoming so defensive, so judgmental, so eager to be offended by every little thing, so eager to defend our own righteousness.

Ego?

I don't know. I do know that when my walk with Christ is weak, I'm less than polite to others. Lately I've had to make myself prioritize my relationship with God BEFORE getting on the forums. Otherwise, I'll react emotionally and make things worse.

 

[abcgrad94]

I didn't realize that responding to the OP was "hijacking". I was under the impression that hijacking a thread was along the lines of attempting to change the subject of the thread and distract from the conversation as defined in the OP. Perhaps you have some other definition?

I just don't want this thread to turn into another fight transferred from other threads. I'm wanting to know WHY ugliness seems to be on the increase, not just here, but all over the body of Christ.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I just don't want this thread to turn into another fight transferred from other threads. I'm wanting to know WHY ugliness seems to be on the increase, not just here, but all over the body of Christ.

Then I will assume that you misspoke.

 

[ktn4eg]

"....Speak[ing] the truth in love, [so that we] may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.....Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
---Ephesians 4:15, 31-32

 

[abcgrad94]

Then I will assume that you misspoke.

I often do. If I did in this case, I apologize.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I often do. If I did in this case, I apologize.:smilewinkgrin:

Nothing to apologize for. Just a little confusing was all.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Maybe this is a sign of the end times, when the brethren can't even get along. It's not just here on the BB. Many of my ministry friends are facing discouragement, physical illness, deaths, family problems, etc. It seems every demon from hell wants to wreak havok on the church, and we are too busy biting and devouring one other to care.:tear:

It's not a sign of the end of times, sister. It's a sign of a sick Bride.

I'm going to have to be crude, but I don't mean to be. You know how when one is sick (like I am right now with seasonal allergies). When one can finally cough up the junk and get it out and sometimes vomit the stuff out, it's a purging of sorts.

The Bride is sick and has been sick for a very long time.

She is purging. And purging is a terrible thing. It can make you feel sicker than you really are.

The Bride of Christ has two really bad viruses - [1] a practice of meaningless and sometimes harmful traditions that people have confused with reverence and Biblical mandates and [2] a practice of abuse of liberties which people confuse with the freedom of the Christian walk.

Both viruses, even though extremist from each other, are choking the life out of the Bride.

And as viruses go, they actually alter the cells of the Bride's body replicate with enormous vengeance. And the Bride, instead of going to the Great Physician, had decided to let the viruses fight it out in herself and she is very, very sick.

It would behoove us all to sit down with ourselves and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to us in this matter and to show us where those "viruses" are in our own mind and in our own heart and in our own daily life. And we need to ask him to cleanse us from them. They are so very destructive.

Ask yourself two things, brother and sisters.

Mark 7:6-7 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.'" They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.​

[1] Is there anything in your mindset, daily walk, church practice, opinion, or world-view that, while not necessarily a BAD thing and quite possible a good thing, has become a mandate and you allow that personal preference to be your "proof" of your spirituality and salvation? Have you confused any personal tradition with a Godly commandment? You know, the thing about the Pharisees is that they were SO hung up on their own man-made rules that they would never admit that they might be wrong. Surely there are some people here who are bigger than that.​

Galatians 5:1-6 and 13 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. ......
........You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.​

[2] If you have been enlightened into liberty, are you doing anything beneficial with it? Paul said that we cannot use this understanding to indulge the flesh, but to serve others. Paul also said in 1 Corinthians 8:9 that we cannot allow the mere exercise of liberty in Christ to be a stumbling block to those who are weaker. Is the spiritual welfare of those around you of prime importance - so much that you would consider your Christian liberty to be in second place behind serving them? That's not easy. Are you big enough to be like Paul, all things to all people? Can you let go of fight in order to serve?​

We all have a dog in this fight. And there ARE cruelties and insults being tossed about.​

We are the Bride of Christ - the Body of Christ, as Paul says. And he said that one part of the body cannot say to another part of the body that it is more important. ​

 

[mcdirector]

I like that Scarlett! a sick Bride.

I was thinking as I read it that we are all sinners saved by grace. We have lost the knack of showing some graciousness ourselves in the name of standing up for what is right and/or biblical.

 

[nodak]

Speaking of the Bride as whole, not just BB or any particular fellowship, I believe part of the problem is a whole lot of folks have been told they are saved when in fact they are not.

I believe a whole lot of folks have been told to worship, invited to worship, and encouraged to worship WITHOUT being introduced to the Master.

But mostly I believe it is ignorance of the Scriptures. It is so easy for me, for any of us, to let our own thoughts/egos/emotions replace God. We need to be in the Word for cleansing rather than chasing the latest fad, oldest fad, or emotional-mountaintop-moment of the day.

I do also think we are tainted with something the world is also struggling with today: the thwarted expectations of some really good younger folks (economy and all) has generated a great deal of anger towards anyone 50+. In response many of us oldies are beginning (probably wrongly) to dish back what we receive.

I would say we oldies and the youngsters need to get alone with the Master and apologize and start loving the other age group of the flock.

 

[Havensdad]

It's not just me. Many of my friends and family have noticed what seems like an attack of hatefulness rearing its ugly head in the body of Christ. I've noticed it on the rise in churches, ministries, and even here on BB. I know this is a debate forum and things get heated, but lately, it's getting harder and harder to find true Christian love anywhere!

Seriously, I'm on several other NON-CHRISTIAN forums where people are more respectful and behave better than the Christians. I don't care how "true" your doctrines are, how "good" your church is, or how much you claim to love God. If we cannot, and do not have love for one another, how on earth can we expect people to even believe we are Christians? Without LOVE, we have NOTHING!

While I agree we should not be harsh to be harsh, and in fact harshness should be a last resort, only used in very specific circumstances, you are using "love" and defining it, in a very unbiblical manner.

Love is not a feeling, way of expression, or "speaking softly." Speaking softly and gently can be extremely hateful. Likewise, being very harsh can be loving. Jesus was the epitome of love, even when he was leveling blistering attacks against people, calling them snakes, whitewashed tombs, and in Peter's case, Satan himself.

If you ignore important doctrine to "keep the peace" you are hating your brother. You care more about your own composure, reputation, and popularity, than you do about the good of your brother and sister. You would rather spit in the face of God, who thought it important enough for you to know His ways that He spent time to write them down, than to offend someone who is holding to the most debase and debilitating, God dishonoring doctrine.

"Speaking the truth in love" has nothing to do with whether or not you are harsh. Speaking the truth in love, means that you have the proper motivation; i.e., you are not trying to show your superiority, nor "beat" the other person. You are trying to correct that person's false understanding of something important. You know that holding false doctrine is harmful, especially to the believer's relationship with Christ, and in that person's ministry. Therefore, even though you know you will be hated for it, called "divisive" etc., you do it anyway. For you would rather die than allow the lies of Satan to stand next to the truths of God as an "equally valid interpretation."

So, let us not sell out Christian truth, for Pagan, ecumenical, and pluralistic "get alongism." Instead, let us speak the TRUTH, in love, sometimes even harshly, just like Jesus and the apostles did.