Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yes, I have dealt with this in other threads. It is not talking about individual people but all people groups.
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What is Heresy?
- Thread starter Reformed
- Start date
Good thing this young fella came along to straighten you out else you just wouldn't know.
I am a non-Calvinist believer. I believe Christ died for all mankind. I have been called a heretic and my view heresy by many Calvinist posters. But as far as I know, by no one else.
Rather than engage in name calling (such as dumb, ignorant, unqualified to hold an opinion) we should present accurately what we see as errant, and then present our rebuttal citing scripture and our interpretation of the applicable meaning that precludes what we see as the errant view.
Empty suits, incapable of making coherent arguments from scripture, hurl against the man arguments such as that view is heresy. Folks who make charges rather than present their own view of the topic actually hinder the ministry of Christ, IMHO.
Rather than engage in name calling (such as dumb, ignorant, unqualified to hold an opinion) we should present accurately what we see as errant, and then present our rebuttal citing scripture and our interpretation of the applicable meaning that precludes what we see as the errant view.
Empty suits, incapable of making coherent arguments from scripture, hurl against the man arguments such as that view is heresy. Folks who make charges rather than present their own view of the topic actually hinder the ministry of Christ, IMHO.
Question
Romans 5
But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:15-19 NKJV
Romans 5:15-19 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now
I can't bold in Tapatalk so forgive my paragraphing.
one man's (Adam's) sin many are made sinners
A) many here is all men
B) some are not sinners
By one man's (Jesus) obedience many will made righteous
A) many means all men
B) some will not be saved.
Track A or track B?
I think Jesus paid for the sin of all men and people are judged for the sin of unbelief. So that's how I read this passage with no issues. As a Calvinist I know you won't like all being saved, but are not all sinners?
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
First, responding to your post overall:
Second I want to focus on what you said here:
You have a problem here. If all of the sins are paid for, why is the sin of unbelief not paid for? That blows your entire theory out of the water.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So there is at least one sin that Christ did not pay for. Therefore, you cannot say Christ paid for all sins because he did not.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Christ either paid for all sins or he didn't.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So, you admit Christ did not die for all sin. Therefore, you cannot hold that Christ died for the sins of all. If he did, then his blood was wasted by not being able to complete the atonement.
Convenient? No, it's context.
He died for all forgivable sin. This is getting boring.
If all sin is forgivable why is there an unforgivable sin?
Context? Your quote from Johnny Mac starts with the pre supp that all sin can't be forgiven. That's just bad reading.
Love is never wasted. You calvys are all the same, "if Jesus died for all and some reject that's wasted blood". Love is selfless and never a waste.
I'm off to work now. Trash me all you want Jr.
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If all sin is forgivable why is there an unforgivable sin?
Context? Your quote from Johnny Mac starts with the pre supp that all sin can't be forgiven. That's just bad reading.
Love is never wasted. You calvys are all the same, "if Jesus died for all and some reject that's wasted blood". Love is selfless and never a waste.
I'm off to work now. Trash me all you want Jr.
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I see we have yet another clash of doctrine. Did Christ die to become the propitiation or means of salvation from God's wrath for some of mankind or for the whole world? 1 John 2:2
How is this turning away wrath accomplished? God transfers those whose faith He credits as righteousness into Christ (into Christ's propitiatory shelter).
Consider the illustration of the oil lease. By purchasing the lease, the owner paid for the right to extract any oil he desires and the right to leave the oil in the ground. Jesus paid the price to forgive any sinner He desires, but also the right to leave others in their sinful state, unforgiven.
The key difference in the two doctrines is that we are healed by His stripes when we are transferred into Christ, rather than when Christ paid the price of forgiveness.
How is this turning away wrath accomplished? God transfers those whose faith He credits as righteousness into Christ (into Christ's propitiatory shelter).
Consider the illustration of the oil lease. By purchasing the lease, the owner paid for the right to extract any oil he desires and the right to leave the oil in the ground. Jesus paid the price to forgive any sinner He desires, but also the right to leave others in their sinful state, unforgiven.
The key difference in the two doctrines is that we are healed by His stripes when we are transferred into Christ, rather than when Christ paid the price of forgiveness.
John I Morris
Member
Unbelief, is the only one not covered. LOL It's fairly simple, you need to believe to be saved, no belief no salvation. So, to try and use that is kind of, well... Not a good application, not accepting Christ sends you to hell, so unforgivable. But yet still sin, and not applicable to your question.
John I Morris
Member
WOW! So that is how you disregard that verse? It is talking about the "whole world", not generalization to the people groups all being included. But, you sure have my permission to be wrong. It really does not matter to me, God will help you with that one if needed. Kosmos, world, all, not a select few.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Done