What is Lordship Salvation?

[freeatlast]

You admit then you have a works-based salvation just like all other religions--Hinduism and Islam.
Salvation is by faith alone.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. (Romans 5:1)

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

That passage does not say we are saved by faith. It says we are justified, saved, through or because of faith. Salvation is by grace alone, not faith. By the way that passage proves that faith is a work.

Eph 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Notice it is not by faith we are saved. It is not faith alone. It is grace alone when the person comes to repentance towards God ands faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. it is impossible to have faith without repentance.

 

[DHK]

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

That passage does not say we are saved by faith. It says we are justified, saved, through or because of faith. Salvation is by grace alone, not faith. By the way that passage proves that faith is a work.

Eph 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Notice it is not by faith we are saved. It is not faith alone. It is grace alone when the person comes to repentance towards God ands faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. it is impossible to have faith without repentance.

If you don't understand the grammar of the verse I will explain it to you.

The verse is basically one simple subject and verb with a couple of definitive adverbial prepositional phrases.
The basic sentence is: you are saved. Everything revolves around that sentence.
"By grace" is a prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
How is a person saved? He is saved by the grace provided by Christ on the cross. That is how. There is no other way to be saved but by the grace of God.

"through faith" is another prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
By what means is a person saved. A person is saved through faith. There is no other means by which a person can be saved but by putting faith in the one that saves. Unless he accepts the sacrifice of Christ by faith and faith alone he cannot be saved.

"and that not of yourselves." To emphasize the point of faith, Paul adds this phrase that there is no merit of oneself, no work that can be done of oneself that can merit salvation. Salvation is not of oneself. It is of God, and through faith in God's provision.

It is the "gift of God." Salvation is the gift of God. Being a gift it must be accepted by faith. There is no other way to accept a gift except by faith. Salvation is God's gift to man. Accept it by faith.

It is not of works. Again Paul emphasizes that there are not works involved in salvation. Salvation is not of works. It is of faith. It must be accepted by faith and faith alone. That sacrifice of the grace of God can only be appropriated by faith. Thus salvation is by faith.

 

[agedman]

If you don't understand the grammar of the verse I will explain it to you.

The verse is basically one simple subject and verb with a couple of definitive adverbial prepositional phrases.
The basic sentence is: you are saved. Everything revolves around that sentence.
"By grace" is a prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
How is a person saved? He is saved by the grace provided by Christ on the cross. That is how. There is no other way to be saved but by the grace of God.

"through faith" is another prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
By what means is a person saved. A person is saved through faith. There is no other means by which a person can be saved but by putting faith in the one that saves. Unless he accepts the sacrifice of Christ by faith and faith alone he cannot be saved.

"and that not of yourselves." To emphasize the point of faith, Paul adds this phrase that there is no merit of oneself, no work that can be done of oneself that can merit salvation. Salvation is not of oneself. It is of God, and through faith in God's provision.

It is the "gift of God." Salvation is the gift of God. Being a gift it must be accepted by faith. There is no other way to accept a gift except by faith. Salvation is God's gift to man. Accept it by faith.

It is not of works. Again Paul emphasizes that there are not works involved in salvation. Salvation is not of works. It is of faith. It must be accepted by faith and faith alone. That sacrifice of the grace of God can only be appropriated by faith. Thus salvation is by faith.

A very good presentation of that verse. One of the best I have read!

Where some would also contend is that the faith is not human generated, but that which God implants as part of the quickening (new nature) imparting of one that will be/ is already saved.

In that view then, it is of no human condition nor of any human generated faith but totally resting upon the great unmerited favor of God.

Some would dispute that source of faith, but it might be off topic to have it discussed in this thread.

 

[Havensdad]

Two items.

First, I have seen some highly regarded posters who say, "progressive sanctification" is taught throughout the NT.

Yet, NOT ONE verse that has the word referring to a progression that is applied to sanctification.

Not so, my friend.

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


You are making the mistake of confusing sanctification with Justification. We are being "sanctified" (made Holy), while at the same time we have already been declared perfect (justified).

 

[Alive in Christ]

What is Lordship Salvation?

In a nutshell...

Its a synonym for "legalism"

 

[Havensdad]

If you don't understand the grammar of the verse I will explain it to you.

The verse is basically one simple subject and verb with a couple of definitive adverbial prepositional phrases.
The basic sentence is: you are saved. Everything revolves around that sentence.
"By grace" is a prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
How is a person saved? He is saved by the grace provided by Christ on the cross. That is how. There is no other way to be saved but by the grace of God.

"through faith" is another prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
By what means is a person saved. A person is saved through faith. There is no other means by which a person can be saved but by putting faith in the one that saves. Unless he accepts the sacrifice of Christ by faith and faith alone he cannot be saved.

"and that not of yourselves." To emphasize the point of faith, Paul adds this phrase that there is no merit of oneself, no work that can be done of oneself that can merit salvation. Salvation is not of oneself. It is of God, and through faith in God's provision.

It is the "gift of God." Salvation is the gift of God. Being a gift it must be accepted by faith. There is no other way to accept a gift except by faith. Salvation is God's gift to man. Accept it by faith.

It is not of works. Again Paul emphasizes that there are not works involved in salvation. Salvation is not of works. It is of faith. It must be accepted by faith and faith alone. That sacrifice of the grace of God can only be appropriated by faith. Thus salvation is by faith.

Actually, I and a whole lot of Greek scholars would disagree with you. The point of that sentence is that the whole thing is of God from beginning to end. Grace describes the reason for salvation, "saved" describes what is happening, and by faith describes the means. The word "through" would be meaningless in this context if the whole thing were not from God. It would be like saying, "By force the nail is driven, through the hammer, and this not of the nail, but of the carpenter." The hammer in this instance is a tool of the carpenter, not a quality of the nail.

Quite frankly, you have bigger problems. What about:

Rom_12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Or:

2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

 

[freeatlast]

Eph 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Notice it is not by faith we are saved. It is not faith alone. It is grace alone when the person comes to repentance towards God ands faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. it is impossible to have faith without repentance. Lordship salvation teaches the biblical call to salvation while easy believism teaches no repentance is needed.
Fiath is a work, but it is grace that saves.

 

[Iconoclast]

Not so, my friend.

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


You are making the mistake of confusing sanctification with Justification. We are being "sanctified" (made Holy), while at the same time we have already been declared perfect (justified).

Havensdad picks out one of the strongest texts in all of scripture ,if correctly understood:thumbs:

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

As salvation is all of God...so is sanctification

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.


7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.

10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

 

[Iconoclast]

In a nutshell...

Its a synonym for "legalism"

Or some refer to it as the nornal christian life.:thumbs:

 

[agedman]

Not so, my friend.

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


You are making the mistake of confusing sanctification with Justification. We are being "sanctified" (made Holy), while at the same time we have already been declared perfect (justified).

So slyly the "being" is placed into the verse you quoted.

But it is NOT in the text.

The actual verse states "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those what are sanctified."

There is no "being" in the original writing.

See for yourself:

Heb 10:14 For <gar> by one <mia> offering <prosphora> he hath perfected <teleioo> for <eis> ever <dienekes> them that are sanctified <hagiazo>​

Do you see "hagiazo" it is not "being sanctified" but "are sanctified."

 

[DHK]

Fiath is a work, but it is grace that saves.

I am sorry to have to use such a strong word, but I believe even your Calvinistic brethren would agree with me:

To say that faith is a work, is heresy.

 

[freeatlast]

I am sorry to have to use such a strong word, but I believe even your Calvinistic brethren would agree with me:

To say that faith is a work, is heresy.

The bible teaches it is a work.
1Thess 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2Thess 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

What do you say it is if not a work?

 

[agedman]

Havensdad picks out one of the strongest texts in all of scripture ,if correctly understood:thumbs:

Had he actually looked, he would have to acknowledge that "being sanctified" is not the appropriate translation.

It is "are sanctified."

Because as your post states it is "All of God" then it is not of man's ability and maturity in the Word and Holy Spirit as some progressive sanctification folks would desire.

God does not "sanctify" in part or in degrees.

One is either "sanctified" or they are not.

 

[Winman]

If you don't understand the grammar of the verse I will explain it to you.

The verse is basically one simple subject and verb with a couple of definitive adverbial prepositional phrases.
The basic sentence is: you are saved. Everything revolves around that sentence.
"By grace" is a prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
How is a person saved? He is saved by the grace provided by Christ on the cross. That is how. There is no other way to be saved but by the grace of God.

"through faith" is another prepositional phrase that defines the verb.
By what means is a person saved. A person is saved through faith. There is no other means by which a person can be saved but by putting faith in the one that saves. Unless he accepts the sacrifice of Christ by faith and faith alone he cannot be saved.

"and that not of yourselves." To emphasize the point of faith, Paul adds this phrase that there is no merit of oneself, no work that can be done of oneself that can merit salvation. Salvation is not of oneself. It is of God, and through faith in God's provision.

It is the "gift of God." Salvation is the gift of God. Being a gift it must be accepted by faith. There is no other way to accept a gift except by faith. Salvation is God's gift to man. Accept it by faith.

It is not of works. Again Paul emphasizes that there are not works involved in salvation. Salvation is not of works. It is of faith. It must be accepted by faith and faith alone. That sacrifice of the grace of God can only be appropriated by faith. Thus salvation is by faith.

Yes, salvation is a gift. You don't work for it, you simply receive it.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Did Jesus tell the Samaritan woman at the well she must give up all sin and follow him to have life? No, he said all she had to do was ASK.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Does this verse say we have to stop sinning to be saved? No, it says we must simply receive or take the water of life freely.

Call it easy believism if you wish, it is what the scriptures teach.

 

[DHK]

The bible teaches it is a work.
1Thess 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Faith produces work.
Love produces labour.
Hope produces patience.

2Thess 1:11

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

The object of our faith is Christ, not work.
The outcome of faith is work.

What do you say it is if not a work?

Faith is never a work. It cannot be measured.
If it is a work, will you pay me for my faith? Can I work for you for my "faith" that I DO? How do you measure "faith"? Faith is not a work to be quantified.

 

[agedman]

The bible teaches it is a work.
1Thess 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

No it doesn't. The faith being that of the Father and not man generated is what Scriptures teach.
Is it your faith that moves the mountains of living, or the work of the Father's faith in the believer in which the Holy Spirit exercises such an ability? Neither moral nor mortal man generated faith is not saving faith.

2Thess 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

What do you say it is?

This is a verse that illustrates the point of the faith being that of God.

For it is His goodness and (his) work of faith with power as the next verse states is to the glory of Christ. He is Glorified, and in Him we are in turn glorified.

"That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[freeatlast]

Faith produces work.
Love produces labour.
Hope produces patience. [/FONT]


The object of our faith is Christ, not work.
The outcome of faith is work.


Faith is never a work. It cannot be measured.
If it is a work, will you pay me for my faith? Can I work for you for my "faith" that I DO? How do you measure "faith"? Faith is not a work to be quantified.

Can a person have faith without works?

 

[freeatlast]

No it doesn't. The faith being that of the Father and not man generated is what Scriptures teach.
Is it your faith that moves the mountains of living, or the work of the Father's faith in the believer in which the Holy Spirit exercises such an ability? Neither moral nor mortal man generated faith is not saving faith.


This is a verse that illustrates the point of the faith being that of God.

For it is His goodness and (his) work of faith with power as the next verse states is to the glory of Christ. He is Glorified, and in Him we are in turn glorified.

"That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Hebrews 11
By faith Abel offered unto God
That is a a work.
By faith Enoch was translated
That is a work
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark
That is a work.
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed
That is a work
Faith is not faith unless there is action. Faith is a work, but works do not save. We are saved by grace, not faith. Eph 2:8,9

 

[Iconoclast]

What's the Lordship Salvation take on backsliding (possibility, variety, degree, length of time, still saved? etc.), which is a fairly baptistic and practical doctrine (e.g. Peter as opposed to Judas Iscariot) and in my opinion not in conflict with once saved, always saved?

Jonathan C. Borland

Backsliding is found in three Ot books and is used 17 times.In 14 of its usages ..it is clearly rebellion and apostasy being spoken of.It is not used of a believer drifting in and out of sin.It is used of an outright apostate.:type:

Remember in the Ot the covenant was breakable.

 

[agedman]

Hebrews 11
By faith Abel offered unto God
That is a a work.
By faith Enoch was translated
That is a work
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark
That is a work.
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed
That is a work
Faith is not faith unless there is action. Faith is a work, but works do not save. We are saved by grace, not faith. Eph 2:8,9

As I stated in a related post on another thread sometime ago, can any mortal man's faith achieve any of Hebrews 11?

That is a rhetorical question, freeatlast, in which the answer is no.

Enoch did not have moral or mortal faith that would allow translation, that was the work of God and God's faith.
Noah did not have the moral or mortal faith to prepare the ark, that was God and God's faith.
And so it goes through the rest of Hebrews.

No one is stating that true faith from God does not work. It cannot help but work, but moral and mortal humankind faith are failures at both work and salvation.

I think a good verse to remember in this thread is found in Philippians 2:

"12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." ​