Out of curiosity Bob, have you ever gone to a PB or ORB service?
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What is "Old Time Religion"
- Thread starter Luke2427
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Out of curiosity Bob, have you ever gone to a PB or ORB service?
Rather than try to answer your question, please allow me to direct you to A Treatise of the Faith and Practices of the National Association of Free Will Baptists or go to the website of the Society of Evangelical Arminians (SEA).
...Bob
convicted1
Guest
Well, Bro. Luke, the ORBs use two song books, the "Sweet Songster" and "Thomas Hymnal" that I think the newest songs in them are probably from the 1880"s, maybe even earlier. And I am sure at that time when they were written, the churches were against those "new songs" to a certain extent. They probably preferred the "old songs", and they probably dated back to the 1700's!!
Thank you for your kind comments.
I did go back and edit my post, and there may be an answer to the above question in those edited comments.
Here are a few ramblings that may--or may not--answer your question.
. . .
In my opinion, spirituality and religion should be experienced, rather than analyzed and outlined. I guess that is why I am Arminian. As the music in the four clips rolls along, my soul rolls along and comes in contact with Christ. I feel Christ in me, or rather I feel myself in the body of Christ. It is the music and the experiences hinted at by the words in the song that do this. Words carry more than a dictionary definition. They carry along personal experiences in our memories and these remembered experiences move us to a higher level.
One similarity may be found when we try to "get into" prayer with God. At first, we may only be saying words or listening to a still small voice--but as the prayer continues we become aware that we are touching the presence of Christ. And when we open our eyes and the surroundings begin to flood over the peace of our prayer, we go on with our day, retaining a glimpse of the peace of our prayer, as well as the instructions we received during that prayer.
Maybe I am rambling too much and the theological sensibilities of some of our forum members will attack me for something they do not understand or cannot articulate or do not find agreement because of things they have been taught, read, or experienced themselves. I ask God's blessings on all of us.
I do not want to discuss this any more, as I have many chores to do today.
Thanks again for the kind words.
...Bob
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A last thought before I log off.
Another look at glimpsing (what a pun!) may be experienced when we eat certain foods that remind us of a pleasant situation when we were younger--visit with our relatives, excitement of a ball game, or some gathering. This, in my opinion, is one of the benefits of potluck dinners at church socials and family reunions. You know the kind of food I am referring to--the dish goes to the social or reunion--and if we are fortunate, we get a bite of the dish at the event. It is these memorial dishes I am speaking about. When I was a little boy, my mother cooked Sunday dinner--she prepared fried chicken, mashed potatoes, green beans, and home-made rolls--or the meat may have been a beef or pork roast. Anyway, today when I go to a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant, although the taste is different, I am reminded of those Sunday afternoons after church--all of us in the kitchen preparing Sunday dinner (an evening meal). Now, I really get the remembered experience of those Sunday dinners when I have the rare opportunity to eat what is called "pan fried chicken"--the preparation is in a cast iron skillet with Crisco shortening, and the chicken has been rolled in flour and a secret mixture of herbs and spices (pepper mostly!).
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Have I attended United Baptist, Primitive Baptist, and Old Regular Baptist services? Yes, I have. And hope to do so again and again.
I also like the organ music and praise band at the big SBC Baptist church downtown.
But I currently attend a Free Will Baptist Church--my wife's brother is the minister!!!
And now I really have to go.
...Bob
Another look at glimpsing (what a pun!) may be experienced when we eat certain foods that remind us of a pleasant situation when we were younger--visit with our relatives, excitement of a ball game, or some gathering. This, in my opinion, is one of the benefits of potluck dinners at church socials and family reunions. You know the kind of food I am referring to--the dish goes to the social or reunion--and if we are fortunate, we get a bite of the dish at the event. It is these memorial dishes I am speaking about. When I was a little boy, my mother cooked Sunday dinner--she prepared fried chicken, mashed potatoes, green beans, and home-made rolls--or the meat may have been a beef or pork roast. Anyway, today when I go to a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant, although the taste is different, I am reminded of those Sunday afternoons after church--all of us in the kitchen preparing Sunday dinner (an evening meal). Now, I really get the remembered experience of those Sunday dinners when I have the rare opportunity to eat what is called "pan fried chicken"--the preparation is in a cast iron skillet with Crisco shortening, and the chicken has been rolled in flour and a secret mixture of herbs and spices (pepper mostly!).
...
Have I attended United Baptist, Primitive Baptist, and Old Regular Baptist services? Yes, I have. And hope to do so again and again.
I also like the organ music and praise band at the big SBC Baptist church downtown.
But I currently attend a Free Will Baptist Church--my wife's brother is the minister!!!
And now I really have to go.
...Bob
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Bob, I didn't know, or perhaps forgot, that you are Free Will Baptist. I was raised Free Will Baptist and preached in Free Will Baptist Churches for ten years. I was one semester shy of getting my degree from Southeastern Free Will Baptist College when I went into full time ministry.
I left them due to a shift in my own theology and philosophy but as I have dealt more and more with these folks who HAVE no theology- I grow to appreciate the old Free Wills more and more.
One thing about Free Will Baptists- they have a systematized and sound and consistent theology.
I pointed out your "expectations" (i.e, your "hypothesis"; your premise), and how you indicated that you didn't receive the responses you were expecting (specifically, the "fundy brethren" vehemently defending certain ideas; and "IFBers ranting and raving").
So-where are the vehement arguments? Where are the rants and raves?
The onus here is not on me, Luke; you made a denigrating and derogatory post against IFBers. Yet I see nothing in this thread that supports your "expectations." Thus, your premise (that you expected certain types of responses) appears to be flawed.
Please feel free to correct me, show me the posts of IFBers vehemently arguing against you, and IFBers ranting and raving. The burden of proof is on you, my friend.
My hypothesis was that the often venerated idea of "Old Time Religion" is a myth.
That was my hypothesis.
I was going to purport that those very days were the days when we began to lose this country and culture of ours.
What I was expecting in response to my efforts to prove my hypothesis was several IFB guys ranting and raving about the things I enunciated.
I have not had that which tells me that either those guys are gone from here, are now very infrequent visitors or cannot support their notion of "Old Time Religion".
You have not, nor have I nor anyone else proven that my hypothesis stated above is flawed. In point of fact this thread has seemed to shift in favor of my hypothesis so far as general consensus is concerned.
Spin it any way you want, Luke. You started this thread expecting a fight; you didn't get one. Thus, your hypothesis was flawed.
You also left out one extremely viable possibility:
1) They're gone
2) They're infrequent visitors
3) They can't support a particular notion
4) They don't exist in the population numbers you expected, and the majority don't believe what you proposed.
Your biggest flaw in your hypothesis was that you forgot that a particular denomination is not defined by its most extreme members.
My hypothesis is stated in the first two or three pages. I'll find the post if you like.
Just because I expected fall out from the proof of my hypothesis has nothing to do with anything.
Hypothesis: chicken bone left in vinegar will become like rubber in one week.
What other expectations I have: The vinegar will turn from clear to a tea color in the process of me proving my hypothesis.
Hypothesis: OTR is a myth.
What other expectations I have: IFBers will rant and rave in the process of me proving my hypothesis.
Conclusion: Hypothesis is sound. My expectations of what might occur in the process of the experiment were flawed.
Got it?
No spinning there- just good old fashioned logic and common sense.
That is possible. But that is not my hypothesis in starting this thread.
However, I will say that here in the South they are VERY numerous.
Luke, Luke, Luke. You just hate being wrong, don't you? Your original hypothesis was in error because no one disagreed with you.
You stated in your opening post that "old time religion" isn't the thing it's purported to be in some circles; but in the post that I called you on, you very clearly stated the expected outcome of your first post: You expected IFBers to vehemently argue against you, and you expected IFBers to rant and rave. You didn't get either.
In other words, you purposely introduced a thread expecting a certain combative response; yet, you didn't get that response. Instead, you got a reasoned, amicable discussion about the definition of your original topic.
Instead of focusing on the fact that you got a reasonable discussion about your topic, you chose to post on the fact that you didn't get your expected combative response.
Instead of focusing on the positive outcome of this thread, you *chose* to focus on the lack of negativity, and in so doing, were derogatory towards your Christian brethren.
The lack of disagreement is where you're in error. You further compounded the error by being derogatory towards fellow Christians.
Here are my expectations: I expect you to continue to claim that you were right, and have committed no error. I do not expect you to apologize to your fellow Christians. My expectations are simple: I expect you to continue being Luke.
Neither here nor there. I've lived in Mississippi, and attended independent fundamental baptist churches there. I know what you're trying to say; but you're still committing the error of over-generalization.
By that I mean: How many of the IFBers who post on this board live in the South?
To use the South as your basis for justification...well, it's flawed. That's like saying everyone likes grits.
Amen. :thumbs:
preacher4truth
Active Member
No offense to Luke, but Don, you are correct. Spinning to avoid being wrong is what is going on (with Luke). It's not that his intentions were deeper than the outcome of he being wrong. It's OK to be wrong Luke. We all are once in awhile. I mean, we all can't be like me, always right! :smilewinkgrin:
AND: I luvz ya man! :thumbsup:
Ahhh, sorry but no thanks:smilewinkgrin:
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