What is "Old Time Religion"

[DiamondLady]

What about a robe? Have you ever known a church that meets your definition of Old Time Religion in which the pastor wears a long robe.

What about a church that is extraordinarily organized with numerous programs?

One that does not sing Bill Gaither type music but rather plays a massive pipe organ?

Are churches like this within your scope of Old Time Religion?

Sorry for the slow answer. We took a quick trip to Illinois to celebrate 50 years of service as a Deacon with my Daddy, also my Mother's 78th and Daddy's 80th birthdays. 1500 miles in four days makes for a very tired DiamondLady!!!

As for your questions....again, those things COULD be Old Time Religion churches. I don't think those things have anything to do with a church having Old Time Religion. (BTW, I really dislike the word religion. I don't have religion, I have Christianity) As for music....I think many people prefer hymns because they know the words, they're comfortable with the notes and rhythms because they're familiar to them.

As for the pipe organ, I ADORE IT! However, I am a musician and realize that the pipe organ isn't for everyone. As for robes vs no robes, whatever blows your skirt up is my thought there. I feel we should give our best to the Lord. If your best is a pair of shorts, go ahead. I'm one of those gals who really wishes women would go back to wearing hats and gloves to church ....because I think they're cute and feminine, has nothing to do with church.

I like old-fashioned hymns like Power in the Blood, I like Gaither music, I like Sandy Patti, I like 4 Him, I like Casting Crowns, I like The Cathedrals, ...well I could list about 200, but again, I'm a musician and my musical tastes are wide and varied (including Runaway, Stairway to Heaven and White Rabbit...but then I'm a child of the 60's/70's) I remember singing Amazing Grace to the melody of House of The Rising Sun when I was a teenager. I seem to remember quite a few people rolling their eyes and sighing loudly but let an active group of teenagers lead the services on the 5th Sunday night of each quarter...encouraging us to become all we could be.

THAT'S Old Time Religion. Not music. Not what clothing we wear. Not even the style of preaching. It's the CONTENT of the message. It's that Christ sacrificed all so that we might spend eternity in Heaven.

 

[Van]

According to the song, the "old time religion" has several features. It makes you love others, and so not think of yourself as better than another because his or her sin is worse than yours. It was good enough for Hebrew children, and therefore includes the responsibility of parents to train up their children in the way they should go. It will get you to heaven, so it presents the plain gospel with its call to suffering for the sake of the Lord, rather than how to improve your life gospel light we see today. Basically "old time religion" refers to biblical based fellowship where we build each other up, rather than tear each other down, and strive to compare ourselves with Christ rather than judge others.

 

[glfredrick]

My take -- as simply stated as possible -- is that there is no such thing as "old time religion" save for the long and flawed memories of people in churches that think that the "good old days" were in some other era.

Each generation has their own battle to fight against temptation, sin, culture, worship style, dress, etc. Each seems to reinvent the wheel, either not knowing that these battles have been fought before or if they do know, romanticizing their effectiveness.

We look back to an America (or England, etc.) where the spiritual climate was all God-honoring, and think that the people had something then that we do not have now. What they had then was often enforced legalism, church attendance from mere rote (versus worshipful choice), payment for pew space, itinerant preachers who often rode circuits and only showed up once a month or once a quarter, etc. Both America and Europe experienced "great revivals" where a largely un-churched drunken populace was turned to Christ by the prayers and preaching of God's Word. If things were so good in the old days, why the need for these sort of massive revival efforts?

People in Europe can look back to the glory days of the Reformation, but then, they also need to look a few years before the Reformation kicked into gear and realize why one was needed! Also, the Reformation itself kicked off a set of religious wars that lasted for decades. Some of what they began fighting for about 400 years ago we're STILL fighting to resolve and likely never will.

I can't imagine how it grieves our Lord when when we stand looking over our shoulders for "old time religion" when Christ calls us to live the glory (His!) days each and every day in anticipation of His return. :thumbsup:

WE should be the "old time religion" and example for generations to follow, if only because we had a zeal for the Word of God, for preaching that Word, and for reaping the harvest that God gives us. We're reminded: (1 Cor 3:6) "I [Paul] have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase..." We should be planting and watering, then watching God grow His church!

 

[Luke2427]

Sorry for the slow answer. We took a quick trip to Illinois to celebrate 50 years of service as a Deacon with my Daddy, also my Mother's 78th and Daddy's 80th birthdays. 1500 miles in four days makes for a very tired DiamondLady!!!

As for your questions....again, those things COULD be Old Time Religion churches. I don't think those things have anything to do with a church having Old Time Religion. (BTW, I really dislike the word religion. I don't have religion, I have Christianity) As for music....I think many people prefer hymns because they know the words, they're comfortable with the notes and rhythms because they're familiar to them.

As for the pipe organ, I ADORE IT! However, I am a musician and realize that the pipe organ isn't for everyone. As for robes vs no robes, whatever blows your skirt up is my thought there. I feel we should give our best to the Lord. If your best is a pair of shorts, go ahead. I'm one of those gals who really wishes women would go back to wearing hats and gloves to church ....because I think they're cute and feminine, has nothing to do with church.

I like old-fashioned hymns like Power in the Blood, I like Gaither music, I like Sandy Patti, I like 4 Him, I like Casting Crowns, I like The Cathedrals, ...well I could list about 200, but again, I'm a musician and my musical tastes are wide and varied (including Runaway, Stairway to Heaven and White Rabbit...but then I'm a child of the 60's/70's) I remember singing Amazing Grace to the melody of House of The Rising Sun when I was a teenager. I seem to remember quite a few people rolling their eyes and sighing loudly but let an active group of teenagers lead the services on the 5th Sunday night of each quarter...encouraging us to become all we could be.

THAT'S Old Time Religion. Not music. Not what clothing we wear. Not even the style of preaching. It's the CONTENT of the message. It's that Christ sacrificed all so that we might spend eternity in Heaven.

I think we are on the same page.

BTW, I preach some Saturday nights at our local prison and the prison choir does Amazing Grace to the tune of House of the Rising Sun regularly.

I love it.

Robes and pipe organs and Isaac Watts are my preference.

Some people like contemporary music like Bill Gaither songs (old people call it old because it came out when they were younger but it is NOT old).

I don't really care one way or the other.

But the Old Paths are the Scriptures rightly divided, sound doctrine plainly preached, God praised by God-honoring, God exalting music rather than man-centered songs, etc...

This is the REAL old paths.

They have NOTHING to do with how folks worshiped in America 50-75 years ago. Those are NOT the Old Paths.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Who's Bill Gaither?

 

[DiamondLady]

Who's Bill Gaither?

I am going to assume (boy that can get me in a lot of trouble) that you are not being facetious.....Bill Gaither is A VERY prolific song writer.... (Because He Lives, He Touched Me, The Longer I Serve Him, There's Something About That Name and about 600+ more). He has been a part of The Bill Gaither Trio, is part of The Gaither Vocal Band, he has a recording company and studio, and on and on. One of his BIGGEST projects is the Homecoming series of which you can purchase on CD or DVD and is on the Christian television stations all the time. He has helped start the careers of people like Carmen, Sandy Patti, Russ Taff, Steve Green, David Phelps, Larnelle Harris and many many others.

He's probably done more for Christian music in the last 30 years than just about any one other person.

 

[dcorbett]

LOVE Gaither's music.....but you notice how he is careful to stay non-denominational???

It is for the sake of commercialism - if he declared a denomination, the others would bail out on him.

I don't hold that against his music, though. Excellent songs that can be performed to convict hearts.

 

[DiamondLady]

LOVE Gaither's music.....but you notice how he is careful to stay non-denominational???

It is for the sake of commercialism - if he declared a denomination, the others would bail out on him.

I don't hold that against his music, though. Excellent songs that can be performed to convict hearts.

I find that most Christian music is non-denominational. As a musician I have been in churches from Catholic to Jewish, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal....I play at A LOT of weddings and funerals....and look at their hymnals. I also collect hymnals and have them from the Civil War on in all denominations. You'll find the same hymns in all of them.

I don't know that he is CAREFUL to stay non-denominational, I'm pretty sure he attends the Church of the Nazarene, I think it's a non-issue whether or not he stands up at a concert and declares he's a member of that church. I think what's more important is that he's a Christian and his music proclaims God's Glory, Grace, Mercy and leads people to Christ.

 

[Luke2427]

I suppose we made a good case against "old time religion" as it is commonly purported here.

I expected a vigorous debate and some of our fundy brethren vehemently defending the ideas that contemporary praise and worship is wrong, Southern Gospel or Bill Gaither music is superior because it stems from the sacred "Old Time Religion", etc...

I expected some of our IFBers to rant and rave that preachers ought to wear white shirts and black ties (tongue in cheek) and that Billy Sunday, John R. Rice and Bob Jones Sr. were the real heroes of the Old Time Religion and that we all ought to get up at 4 o'clock every morning, and clean our rooms, and have Sargent York as our favorite movie, subscribe to the Sword of the Lord (that mag which edits all the Calvinism out of Spurgeon's Sermons and attacks SBC incessantly), and our wives and daughters ought to wear culottes and grow their hair to their wastes, and we ought to dress like folks from the fifties, etc... if we want to be right with God.

BTW, why is it the music these type people always want to sing is usually older than 40 years and younger than 135 years old?

 

[Don]

I suppose we made a good case against "old time religion" as it is commonly purported here.

I expected a vigorous debate and some of our fundy brethren vehemently defending the ideas that contemporary praise and worship is wrong, Southern Gospel or Bill Gaither music is superior because it stems from the sacred "Old Time Religion", etc...

I expected some of our IFBers to rant and rave that preachers ought to wear white shirts and black ties (tongue in cheek) and that Billy Sunday, John R. Rice and Bob Jones Sr. were the real heroes of the Old Time Religion and that we all ought to get up at 4 o'clock every morning, and clean our rooms, and have Sargent York as our favorite movie, subscribe to the Sword of the Lord (that mag which edits all the Calvinism out of Spurgeon's Sermons and attacks SBC incessantly), and our wives and daughters ought to wear culottes and grow their hair to their wastes, and we ought to dress like folks from the fifties, etc... if we want to be right with God.

BTW, why is it the music these type people always want to sing is usually older than 40 years and younger than 135 years old?

So you started this thread to denigrate and deride independent fundamental Baptists?

Pretty classy, Luke. (and before you say thank you, that was sarcasm)

So your conclusion from the fact that you didn't get the response you expected is....? Your hypothesis was flawed to begin with, and therefore requires re-evaluation?

 

[Grasshopper]

Somebody beat me to Sargeant York.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Somebody beat me to Sargeant York.

:laugh::laugh: great movie

 

[Luke2427]

So you started this thread to denigrate and deride independent fundamental Baptists?

Pretty classy, Luke. (and before you say thank you, that was sarcasm)

So your conclusion from the fact that you didn't get the response you expected is....? Your hypothesis was flawed to begin with, and therefore requires re-evaluation?

Just saying it doesn't make it so, Don. You have to prove it or this is nothing but a drive-by post.

 

[Don]

Just saying it doesn't make it so, Don. You have to prove it or this is nothing but a drive-by post.

Don't be obtuse, Luke. Did you, or did you not, post the following?

I expected a vigorous debate and some of our fundy brethren vehemently defending the ideas that contemporary praise and worship is wrong, Southern Gospel or Bill Gaither music is superior because it stems from the sacred "Old Time Religion", etc...

I expected some of our IFBers to rant and rave that preachers ought to wear white shirts and black ties (tongue in cheek) and that Billy Sunday, John R. Rice and Bob Jones Sr. were the real heroes of the Old Time Religion and that we all ought to get up at 4 o'clock every morning, and clean our rooms, and have Sargent York as our favorite movie, subscribe to the Sword of the Lord (that mag which edits all the Calvinism out of Spurgeon's Sermons and attacks SBC incessantly), and our wives and daughters ought to wear culottes and grow their hair to their wastes, and we ought to dress like folks from the fifties, etc... if we want to be right with God.

BTW, why is it the music these type people always want to sing is usually older than 40 years and younger than 135 years old?

You expected "some of your fundy brethren"? You expected some of "our IFBers to rant and rave"? You identified "these people" as having a certain type/style of music?

I didn't "just say it," Luke; I merely read what you wrote. You provided the proof all by yourself.

It's easy to be a hater, Luke. Makes us feel better about ourselves, makes us feel superior when we talk down about others. How superior are you feeling?

 

[BobinKy]

If you having trouble finding Old Time Religion, wrap your theological ears around these music clips.

...Bob

Old Time Religion (1954) The Caravans

Chris James sings Old Time Religion

N'Harmony Quartet signs Old Time Religion

Old Time Religion on the Andy Williams Show

 

[dcorbett]

<<I expected some of our IFBers to rant and rave that preachers ought to wear white shirts and black ties (tongue in cheek) and that Billy Sunday, John R. Rice and Bob Jones Sr. were the real heroes of the Old Time Religion and that we all ought to get up at 4 o'clock every morning, and clean our rooms, and have Sargent York as our favorite movie, subscribe to the Sword of the Lord (that mag which edits all the Calvinism out of Spurgeon's Sermons and attacks SBC incessantly), and our wives and daughters ought to wear culottes and grow their hair to their wastes, and we ought to dress like folks from the fifties, etc... if we want to be right with God. BTW, why is it the music these type people always want to sing is usually older than 40 years and younger than 135 years old?>>

I am IFB...and no rant or rave is coming from here. I am saved by the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ. I don't have to DO any of the above to be saved. Please don't make fun of the church I choose to attend, you've never been to one service there.

And I LIKE old fashioned (according to what's going on now) music, dress, and preaching.

 

[BobinKy]

LOVE Gaither's music.....but you notice how he is careful to stay non-denominational???

It is for the sake of commercialism - if he declared a denomination, the others would bail out on him.

I don't hold that against his music, though. Excellent songs that can be performed to convict hearts.

Actually Bill Gaither's church background is with The Church of God (Anderson, Indiana), a group that defines itself as a nondenominational movement, not a denomination. Here is a summary of their history.

 

[BobinKy]

. . . why is it the music these type people always want to sing is usually older than 40 years and younger than 135 years old?

Luke2427 and others following this thread...

The music period you are describing "older than 40 years and younger than 135 years old" occurs from 1876-1971. Knowing that you are asking for more than words in a post, I thought I would give you a few images, references, and links.

. . .

The traditional gospel song "(Give Me That) Old-Time Religion" was first put to print as "This Old Time Religion" in 1873 by the Fisk Jubilee Singers (1).

The Fisk Jubilee Singers were an Africian American group affiliated with the historical African American Fisk University (Nashville, TN) that was established after the end of the Civil War. The Fisk Jubilee Singers were organized in 1871 to tour and raise funds for their college. Their early repertoire consisted mostly of traditional spirituals, but included some Stephen Foster songs (b.1826-d.1864) (2). The original group toured along the Underground Railroad path in the United States, as well as performing in England and Europe. (4, 5)

The song was made available for white audiences by Charles Davis Tillman, who first heard this spiritual sung by African-Americans at a camp meeting in Lexington, South Carolina in 1889. (1, 4)

However, music historian Forrest Mason McCann asserts the song may have English folk origins, later disappearing in the white repertoire but staying alive in the slave work songs of African Americans. (1)

Therefore, the traditional gospel song "Old Time Religion" (in its various forms) comes to us from before the music period of 1876-1971 that you described in your earlier post (# 49). I have submitted this post (# 58) and my previous post (# 55) of four YouTube contemporary renderings, because I think the song "Old Time Religion", particularly its rhythm and lyric varieties, gives us a glimpse of how old time religion may have been practiced by Christians in some geographical, historical, and cultural settings--possibly as early as the Brittish colonization of the United States in the plantation states during the 1700s.

. . .

For what it is worth, I think a thread about theological communication media may prove interesting. By this, I mean that some Christian traditions adopted written media to communicate formal theology tenets, while other Christian traditions communicated theology through the medium of song. In the case of the latter, a person might actually learn more about a group's theology by examining their songs and hymn books than by looking for printed doctrine or systematic theologies. Just my two cents worth.


...Bob


. . .

REFERENCES

(1) Old Time Religion.

(2) Stephen Foster

(3) Fisk Jubilee Singers.

(4) Charles Davis Tillman.

(5) Map of the Underground Railroad.

 

[Bob Alkire]

If you having trouble finding Old Time Religion, wrap your theological ears around these music clips.

...Bob

Old Time Religion (1954) The Caravans

Chris James sings Old Time Religion

N'Harmony Quartet signs Old Time Religion

Old Time Religion on the Andy Williams Show

Thanks my friend, I enjoyed all four!!!

 

[menageriekeeper]

See this is why I love the BB!

You can start a thread to argue and end up getting a music lesson!

(I'm gonna listen to the links later on, thanx Bobin Ky)