What is the hold?

[steaver]

What do you think the hold is why Catholics cannot break free from the RCC?

I remember when DHK was here, an ex-catholic, and he said what broke him free was being born-again after hearing the gospel.

No matter even when the Scriptures goes against their beliefs, and they recognize that the Scriptures goes against their beliefs, they still refuse to reject the RCC.

In an older thread that is now closed, a Catholic was shown from the Word of God that the love of God was not enough for salvation. Even though they seen this and acknowledged what it said, their answer was, and I quote...

"I personally would not try to say what God would or would not do when it comes to being saved and neither is the Catholic Church despite what St. Paul says". (emphasis mine)

What else can we do? Despite what the Word of God says? Why can the Catholic see the error in their religion's position and yet cannot break away?

So I have to wonder if DHK's experience is the deciding factor. What other reason could there be if a person is willing to choose what the Pope declares over what the Apostle Paul (Word of God) declares? John chapter 3 is a very good passage declaring the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Catholics I have spoken with reject what Jesus said. Isn't this rejecting the Gospel? Isn't this rejecting Jesus' declaration that ye must be born-again? The very Gospel?

I do not set out to make any personal attacks. However I do attack false doctrines. Just trying to understand. Is it a blindness? What is it? It will be so sad one day when the Antichrist comes on the seen and the Catholic world will look towards the Vatican for answers, and they will hang their lives upon the word of the Pope anxiously awaiting his declaration, and he will emerge, and point to the Antichrist, and make his pronouncement...."behold your Christ!".

 

[Jason1]

What do you think the hold is why Catholics cannot break free from the RCC?

I remember when DHK was here, an ex-catholic, and he said what broke him free was being born-again after hearing the gospel.

No matter even when the Scriptures goes against their beliefs, and they recognize that the Scriptures goes against their beliefs, they still refuse to reject the RCC.

In an older thread that is now closed, a Catholic was shown from the Word of God that the love of God was not enough for salvation. Even though they seen this and acknowledged what it said, their answer was, and I quote...

"I personally would not try to say what God would or would not do when it comes to being saved and neither is the Catholic Church despite what St. Paul says". (emphasis mine)

What else can we do? Despite what the Word of God says? Why can the Catholic see the error in their religion's position and yet cannot break away?

So I have to wonder if DHK's experience is the deciding factor. What other reason could there be if a person is willing to choose what the Pope declares over what the Apostle Paul (Word of God) declares? John chapter 3 is a very good passage declaring the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Catholics I have spoken with reject what Jesus said. Isn't this rejecting the Gospel? Isn't this rejecting Jesus' declaration that ye must be born-again? The very Gospel?

I do not set out to make any personal attacks. However I do attack false doctrines. Just trying to understand. Is it a blindness? What is it? It will be so sad one day when the Antichrist comes on the seen and the Catholic world will look towards the Vatican for answers, and they will hang their lives upon the word of the Pope anxiously awaiting his declaration, and he will emerge, and point to the Antichrist, and make his pronouncement...."behold your Christ!".

I broke away from the RCC after seeing it didn't line up with scripture. I also broke away from protesting catholics (protestants) after finding they also didn't line up with scripture.

So the next question is: Why can't protestants quit protesting and break free from the catholic church all together? Quit following their marks of sunday sabbath and pagan holidays...

 

[Yeshua1]

I broke away from the RCC after seeing it didn't line up with scripture. I also broke away from protesting catholics (protestants) after finding they also didn't line up with scripture.

So the next question is: Why can't protestants quit protesting and break free from the catholic church all together? Quit following their marks of sunday sabbath and pagan holidays...

Maybe because we are allowed to observe and practice them, or not to do them, as now under Grace?

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you think the hold is why Catholics cannot break free from the RCC?

I remember when DHK was here, an ex-catholic, and he said what broke him free was being born-again after hearing the gospel.

No matter even when the Scriptures goes against their beliefs, and they recognize that the Scriptures goes against their beliefs, they still refuse to reject the RCC.

In an older thread that is now closed, a Catholic was shown from the Word of God that the love of God was not enough for salvation. Even though they seen this and acknowledged what it said, their answer was, and I quote...

"I personally would not try to say what God would or would not do when it comes to being saved and neither is the Catholic Church despite what St. Paul says". (emphasis mine)

What else can we do? Despite what the Word of God says? Why can the Catholic see the error in their religion's position and yet cannot break away?

So I have to wonder if DHK's experience is the deciding factor. What other reason could there be if a person is willing to choose what the Pope declares over what the Apostle Paul (Word of God) declares? John chapter 3 is a very good passage declaring the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Catholics I have spoken with reject what Jesus said. Isn't this rejecting the Gospel? Isn't this rejecting Jesus' declaration that ye must be born-again? The very Gospel?

I do not set out to make any personal attacks. However I do attack false doctrines. Just trying to understand. Is it a blindness? What is it? It will be so sad one day when the Antichrist comes on the seen and the Catholic world will look towards the Vatican for answers, and they will hang their lives upon the word of the Pope anxiously awaiting his declaration, and he will emerge, and point to the Antichrist, and make his pronouncement...."behold your Christ!".

Think that they are "brain washed" and conditioned from early on see it as the real and true church, and salvation only in it, so has a real mental blockage on them!

 

[Jason1]

Maybe because we are allowed to observe and practice them, or not to do them, as now under Grace?

No, they are Commandments, not suggestions. To think otherwise is folly. They weren't the 10 suggestions, lol.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, they are Commandments, not suggestions. To think otherwise is folly. They weren't the 10 suggestions, lol.

Sabbath JUST was given to Israel, as Jesus Himself stated that Sabbath was for man, not man for it, and paul made it very clear no specific day of Worship set apart now!

 

[steaver]

So the next question is: Why can't protestants quit protesting and break free from the catholic church all together? Quit following their marks of sunday sabbath and pagan holidays...

I doubt anyone here in the USA considers themselves "protesting catholics". I don't know about other countries.

You do understand that there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath? What "Pagan" holidays are you speaking of?

Christians can gather together and worship 24/7 365 days a year. There is no mandate for any specific worshiping days.

 

[Yeshua1]

I doubt anyone here in the USA considers themselves "protesting catholics". I don't know about other countries.

You do understand that there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath? What "Pagan" holidays are you speaking of?

Christians can gather together and worship 24/7 365 days a year. There is no mandate for any specific worshiping days.

He probably sees easter and Christmas as being both pagan!

 

[steaver]

He probably sees easter and Christmas as being both pagan!

Then he thinks Jesus Christ is Pagan???

 

[Jason1]

I doubt anyone here in the USA considers themselves "protesting catholics". I don't know about other countries.

You do understand that there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath? What "Pagan" holidays are you speaking of?

Christians can gather together and worship 24/7 365 days a year. There is no mandate for any specific worshiping days.

You're right on specific worship days, but there is a specific rest day - the 7th (our saturday).

The catholics claim they have authority to change this to the 1st day in violation of scripture. The protestants still adhere to this change and are thus still under catholic authority.

Xmas and Easter are a blending of paganism and christianity. This is not to be done according to scripture and instead the feast days of Lev 23 are to be observed.

 

[steaver]

You're right on specific worship days, but there is a specific rest day - the 7th (our saturday).

The catholics claim they have authority to change this to the 1st day in violation of scripture. The protestants still adhere to this change and are thus still under catholic authority.

Xmas and Easter are a blending of paganism and christianity. This is not to be done according to scripture and instead the feast days of Lev 23 are to be observed.

Remember, God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. You could be faithfully resting on the Sabbath and doing it because you think it satisfies God when in reality He has given us Jesus Christ as our Christian Sabbath. So what happens when you miss honoring a Sabbath? Do you lose your standing with God for that week?

 

[MennoSota]

I broke away from the RCC after seeing it didn't line up with scripture. I also broke away from protesting catholics (protestants) after finding they also didn't line up with scripture.

So the next question is: Why can't protestants quit protesting and break free from the catholic church all together? Quit following their marks of sunday sabbath and pagan holidays...

Because no one wants to join your cult, Jason.

 

[Jason1]

Remember, God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. You could be faithfully resting on the Sabbath and doing it because you think it satisfies God when in reality He has given us Jesus Christ as our Christian Sabbath. So what happens when you miss honoring a Sabbath? Do you lose your standing with God for that week?

The Creator judges us according to His word. If you miss honoring the sabbath then what you are saying is you willfully went to work in defiance of Him. Refer to Numbers 15 for the penalty.

 

[steaver]

The Creator judges us according to His word. If you miss honoring the sabbath then what you are saying is you willfully went to work in defiance of Him. Refer to Numbers 15 for the penalty.

Ok, so what happens when you miss honoring the Sabbath? And how do you know you honored it correctly?

 

[Yeshua1]

You're right on specific worship days, but there is a specific rest day - the 7th (our saturday).

The catholics claim they have authority to change this to the 1st day in violation of scripture. The protestants still adhere to this change and are thus still under catholic authority.

Xmas and Easter are a blending of paganism and christianity. This is not to be done according to scripture and instead the feast days of Lev 23 are to be observed.

Not Jewish, as they were given to just Israel to observe, as those feast just shadows of jesus to come!
NO NT scripture placed us now under jewish sabbath!

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok, so what happens when you miss honoring the Sabbath? And how do you know you honored it correctly?

SDA states that failure to do that is getting mark of the beast!

 

[steaver]

The Creator judges us according to His word. If you miss honoring the sabbath then what you are saying is you willfully went to work in defiance of Him. Refer to Numbers 15 for the penalty.

Sorry I missed the Numbers 15 reference you gave. So how many people in your congregation have you stoned to death so far for not honoring the Sabbath?

 

[MennoSota]

Nabeel Qureshi identifies the reason Muslims struggle to leave Islam. He says it's because of a culture of shaming. When you leave Islam you shame your family.
I think Muslims and Roman church followers are in the same mold. They both see honoring God as a system of works. They both have a system of shame for anyone who leaves. (It should be noted that Mormons, Jehovah's Witness and the Hebrew Roots cults all use shaming as well).

It's hard to leave a group that has all your family and you know you will disappoint them and be ostracized for leaving.

 

[Jason1]

Sorry I missed the Numbers 15 reference you gave. So how many people in your congregation have you stoned to death so far for not honoring the Sabbath?

None, since we aren't living in israel with torah as our national law. You could do it figuratively and not allow the defiant people into your assembly.

The sabbath isn't a jewish thing, it was from Creation and given to all mankind.

 

[steaver]

It's hard to leave a group that has all your family and you know you will disappoint them and be ostracized for leaving.

This is true, but I think this is where becoming born-again comes in. When one receives Jesus Christ and becomes regenerated, the Truth causes them to break away no matter the circumstances. This is why I asked the question in the thread, does it boil down to being born of God?