Chapter and verse of Mary's perpetual virginity please. If you can give me that I promise I will go back to the RCC.
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What is the hold?
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Chapter and verse of Mary's perpetual virginity please. If you can give me that I promise I will go back to the RCC.
Perfect example of adding to Scripture.
What happened was a Catholic teacher realized his church had lost it's way, becoming Christian Pharisees, wondering further and further away from Sola Scripture and going about to establish their own set of mandates for justification. We can thank God for raising him up to sound the alarm. We have the Scriptures which God has preserved that we may measure anyone's preaching/teaching and determine if they are truly an agent of the Lord Jesus Christ.
True Baptists were never a part of the RCC nor followers of Martin Luther. In fact Luther persecuted Baptists. The RCC tried to eradicate them. They have survived as promised by the Lord Jesus: "I will never leave you nor forsake you."
Sola Scriptura is a part of: The Faith, once for all delivered to the Saints, Jude 3. This was 1500 yrs. before Wittenburg.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
Sola Scriptura is a part of: The Faith, once for all delivered to the Saints, Jude 3. This was 1500 yrs. before Wittenburg.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
Who gave us the Scriptures in the form we now know them? Why the Universal Church that's who. Look, you deny the power of the Universal Church given to it by Jesus Christ Himself, so what else can I say. Such power was given to the Church as a whole, not to singular men like Luther, Zwingle, Wesley and others who singlehandedly changed things.
That would be Jesus Christ/God through His chosen Apostles and Prophets.
Why have you decided the Universal Church is the RCC?
I guess you missed the part of the Scriptures where binding and loosing on heaven and earth are mentioned. I really do understand where you are at, because when one self interprets, one misses things. Look, why are you believing a complete opposite interpretation of the Scriptures and who has led you to this? Martin Luther himself believed in this teaching, so I guess even his "reforms" wasn't enough for you. You have gone with the dissenters of the original dissenter. It never ends
Therein lies your error. Self interpreting leads to errors, no matter who is doing the interpreting. Scripture interprets Scripture. If you have a belief then you should have no problem proving it is correct through pointing to the Word of God. The Word will either support you or it will correct you.
Which shows you that all men can hold erroneous beliefs. Luther was not perfect in beliefs, I'm not, your not, the Pope is not, no man is. Only when we can base a belief on clear Scripture can it be said that it is Truth, ie, Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I can hold a belief that is speculative, but I cannot push it upon others as being fact based on Scripture. Often things prophesied yet to come fall into the speculative category and we cannot know with absolute certainty that we are correct.
We are not believing any opposite interpretation. We see no evidence in the Scripture that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Do you? Show us!
You say changed, I say corrected.
What does that have to do with my question? I asked you to give me chapter and verse that proves Mary's perpetual virginity. Give me that, give me scriptural proof of Mary's assumption into heaven.Those are two of the many reasons I left the RCC. If you can give me BIBLICAL proof (not tradition) of these two things I will be in Mass next Sunday.
So you ignore tradition too? The Apostles themselves passed on these Christian traditions to us, and these same traditions were incorporated into the growing Universal Christian Church by those Bishops we know as the Early Church Fathers. You should read the writings of these Bishops of the early Universal Church, you just might learn something you are presently unaware of.
For example, the Trinitarian concept was not known as we now know it in the Scriptures either, but that was a doctrine brought to the fore by the Church in the early centuries and it was expounded upon and now every believing Christian adheres to it.
As for the example you want me to provide, you know full well that there is no such passages, but that does not negate their validity. You are a Sola Scriptura person, relying on the Scriptures alone and a particular interpretation of them, as against one who follows orthodox Christian teachings. Sola Scriptura is nowhere proclaimed in the Bible, but the authority of the Church here on earth certainly is.
Nor are you believing in the authority of the Universal Christian Church here on earth - there is nothing else to say.
We believe that the Word of God supports us, so again, what else can I say?
As the orthodox church's have survived. Sola Scriptura never reared it's head before Luther - you cannot change the historical fact.
I have. Verbal tradition is a mixture of fact and fiction. I place my faith in what was written...the rest, nope. One last time, chapter and verse for Mary's perpetual virginity and assumption. Mary's perpetual virginity came out of a thought that the woman who carried Christ in her womb would never "sully" herself with intercourse. I've heard the lousy explanations of why it is WRITTEN that Jesus had brothers and sisters...but that negates Mary's perpetual virginity. So, instead of ranting, why don't you provide PROOF.
Except Jesus and the Apostles all taught and held to it!
You folks are never going to brow beat this women to moving away from her church.....this may come in time through the power of the HG.....or it wont. But be of good cheer, she believes in Christ & she believes in the Trinity. I would say she is far removed from a common walking around atheist. She will need your love, she will need your patience, your prayers, your concern for her spiritual well being. That will go a long way to making her a disciple.
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