What is the OFFICIAL Sda Views On Gospel And Ellen White?

[steaver]

I can and will when you give me the context I asked for. Jesus used a similar tactic when the Pharisees tried to press him for an answer.

Lol. Really? Context you need?

Hey Steaver, Do you believe if you sin you will be damned to hell? That's a tough one! Not! My answer is "NO" .
For by grace I have been saved through faith; and that not of myself: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest I should boast. For I am his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that I should walk in them.

Your turn!

 

[steaver]

You gave Scripture you apparently you disagree with, not that prove your position.

Yes, I always give scripture I disagree with

2nd, I wasn't proving a point. I was answering your question for you. Which of course I began with a "Yes" as to actually answer your question, and then showed you from scripture why my answer was "yes". it's really not that hard, try it!

 

[bluejx]

Lol. Really? Context you need?

Hey Steaver, Do you believe if you sin you will be damned to hell? That's a tough one! Not! My answer is "NO" .
For by grace I have been saved through faith; and that not of myself: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest I should boast. For I am his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that I should walk in them.

Your turn!

Not quite. You seem to be avoiding the context I was asking for. Feel free to QUOTE my post in which I asked for the context.

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[bluejx]

Honestly is the best policy.

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[steaver]

Not quite. You seem to be avoiding the context I was asking for. Feel free to QUOTE my post in which I asked for the context.

Sorry, been there done that many times with the SDA dodge and juke tactics. It's a simple question for any bible student. If you think there are different context for that question then you may put them up. Otherwise...

Do you believe if YOU sin YOU will be damned to hell? Yes or No, you are always free to explain your answer in the context you please.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

A sacrifice would require it be killed. The scapegoat isn't killed but released into the wilderness. And the NT does not establish Sunday as a day of worship nor does it nullify any of the 10Cs including the 4th.

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Lets look at some Bible facts.

Firstly, the "scapegoat" had the sins of all of the people placed upon its head, (Lev.16:10, etc) and then it was sent into the wilderness. Both of these are a "type" fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ. Show ONE example in the entire Holy Bible, where the devil, in ANY way has ANY relation to the "bearing" of our sins?

Secondly, as for Sunday. Look at John 20:19, (and the other Gospels), "hen the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you"; and then, verse 26, "And after eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.", where, After eight days (meth' hêmeras oktô). That is the next Sunday evening, on the eighth day in reality just like "after three days" and "on the third day.. Then look at Acts 20:27, ""And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,". 1 Corinthians 6:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come,". Rev. 1:10-11, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea,"

Then, in Acts 2:1, we have the Birth of the Church and giving of the Holy Spirit, which is known as "Pentecost", which is from the Greek, "pentēkostē", which means "fiftieth day", From the end of Saturday the 16th day of Nisan forty-nine days are counted, and fiftieth, or feast of Pentecost, falls on a Sunday.

Early Church history also shows that SUNDAY was the day of worship for Christians.

 

[bluejx]

Sorry, been there done that many times with the SDA dodge and juke tactics. It's a simple question for any bible student. If you think there are different context for that question then you may put them up. Otherwise...

Do you believe if YOU sin YOU will be damned to hell? Yes or No, you are always free to explain your answer in the context you please.

I'm afraid we're at an impasse. Just like the Pharisees did not answer Christ's question so neither would Christ answer theirs, etc., etc. Let me know if you change your mind.

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[bluejx]

Lets look at some Bible facts.

Firstly, the "scapegoat" had the sins of all of the people placed upon its head, (Lev.16:10, etc) and then it was sent into the wilderness. Both of these are a "type" fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ. Show ONE example in the entire Holy Bible, where the devil, in ANY way has ANY relation to the "bearing" of our sins?

Secondly, as for Sunday. Look at John 20:19, (and the other Gospels), "hen the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you"; and then, verse 26, "And after eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.", where, After eight days (meth' hêmeras oktô). That is the next Sunday evening, on the eighth day in reality just like "after three days" and "on the third day.. Then look at Acts 20:27, ""And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,". 1 Corinthians 6:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come,". Rev. 1:10-11, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea,"

Then, in Acts 2:1, we have the Birth of the Church and giving of the Holy Spirit, which is known as "Pentecost", which is from the Greek, "pentēkostē", which means "fiftieth day", From the end of Saturday the 16th day of Nisan forty-nine days are counted, and fiftieth, or feast of Pentecost, falls on a Sunday.

Early Church history also shows that SUNDAY was the day of worship for Christians.

SBG,

There were actually two schools of thought on the scapegoat (Azazel) among the Jewish commentators. Adventist hold to one while you hold to the other but basically you are holding on to commentary and not to what Scripture clearly reveals. The one goat that was killed was called the Lord's goat. Conversely, Azazel was not the Lord's.

As for Pentecost falling on Sunday, this is true throughout Jewish history. Funny thing, that, it never caused the Jews to observe Sunday as the Sabbath. So, ........ what's you point?

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[Saved-By-Grace]

SBG,

There were actually two schools of thought on the scapegoat (Azazel) among the Jewish commentators. Adventist hold to one while you hold to the other but basically you are holding on to commentary and not to what Scripture clearly reveals. The one goat that was killed was called the Lord's goat. Conversely, Azazel was not the Lord's.

As for Pentecost falling on Sunday, this is true throughout Jewish history. Funny thing, that, it never caused the Jews to observe Sunday as the Sabbath. So, ........ what's you point?

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Firstly, you have FAILED to give ONE verse from either Testament, that says the devil is in ANY way a "sin-bearer" for the sins of the lost human race. Please deal with this from Scripture.

Secondly, how can you expect the Jews to worship on Sunday, when the main reason that Christians do so, is because of the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Messiah, which the Jews reject? You will notice that in the New Testament, you will not find the Sabbath Day Commandment re-affirmed, as it was a Covenant between the Lord and Israel. As I have said, the Apostles and the whole of Church history records Sunday as the new day of worship for all true Bible believing Christians. We are not under the Law of Moses any longer, as this was annulled by Jesus Christ at the cross. See Galatians and Hebrews on this very issue.

 

[bluejx]

Firstly, you have FAILED to give ONE verse from either Testament, that says the devil is in ANY way a "sin-bearer" for the sins of the lost human race. Please deal with this from Scripture.

Secondly, how can you expect the Jews to worship on Sunday, when the main reason that Christians do so, is because of the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Messiah, which the Jews reject? You will notice that in the New Testament, you will not find the Sabbath Day Commandment re-affirmed, as it was a Covenant between the Lord and Israel. As I have said, the Apostles and the whole of Church history records Sunday as the new day of worship for all true Bible believing Christians. We are not under the Law of Moses any longer, as this was annulled by Jesus Christ at the cross. See Galatians and Hebrews on this very issue.

I didn't call him a sin bearer. You're thinking he must be if he is ultimately held responsible for sin.

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[steaver]

I'm afraid we're at an impasse.

Typical SDA. SAD.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I didn't call him a sin bearer. You're thinking he must be if he is ultimately held responsible for sin.

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Read #40 where I have shown that Mrs White, which is what this thread is about, said this,

"In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation," to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away "unto a land not inhabited;" so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked."

This is utter BLASPHEMY!

Show ONE Scripture to support this?

 

[BobRyan]

What type of prophet is EW, who does she compare with?

How many "types" does the Bible define in your view??

Miriam and Aaron in Numbers 12:6-12 are prophets - but Moses is the one writing the Bible and speaking to God face to face at the tent of meeting according to Numbers 12.

Ellen White was not doing that - she was more like Aaron and Miriam as God also affirms them as prophets saying this.

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.

And also Deborah - a judge and a prophet.. who wrote no book of the Bible.

So also Philip's 4 daughters in the book of acts - all of whom were prophets.

 

[loDebar]

not my opinion, I know nothing of her . What is SDA opinion of her, What is a comparable prophet?

 

[bluejx]

Typical SDA. SAD.

Lol. The solution is with you. Answer mine, I'll answer yours. It keeps us from coming to wrong conclusions.

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[BobRyan]

Christ and Paul -- "tell the truth" as it turns out. (May come as a surprise to some folks)

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.?

steaver said: ↑
This would be the SDA argument we see on here all day long. Sin and be damned.
Is this your response each time you see a quote of Matthew 18 or Romans 11?

Is this your response each time you see a quote of Matthew 18 or Romans 11?

steaver said: ↑
So it appears you are assuming that which is not written

On the contrary - I love to pay attention to the "very Bible details" you appear to find most 'inconvenient'

Christ and Paul -- "tell the truth" as it turns out. (May come as a surprise to some folks)

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
...
Would you like another quote of the chapter where Peter asks about forgiving others and Christ tells him that as a forgiven saint - he is under obligation to forgive others just as God has fully forgiven him?

Because I really enjoy discussing that teaching of Christ

Do you know the difference between what is expected of one has has already been fully forgiven vs what it expected of the lost person?? (This will be interesting).

Which of the two scenarios is Christ addressing in Matthew 18 in your opinion?

Notice those questions from page 1??

Here they are "again" --

"Would you like another quote of the chapter where Peter asks about forgiving others and Christ tells him that as a forgiven saint - he is under obligation to forgive others just as God has fully forgiven him?"

Because I really enjoy discussing that teaching of Christ

"Do you know the difference between what is expected of one has has already been fully forgiven vs what it expected of the lost person??" (This will be interesting to see the many ways to avoid that one).

Which of the two scenarios is Christ addressing in Matthew 18 in your opinion?

...crickets...

You missed a question..

Not a very "compelling" solution to the questions asked of you Steaver.

Here is the proper way to have a debate.

This should be good -- I keep giving Steaver those two texts and he keeps demonstrating his "need" to avoid the teaching that we find in those scriptures.

Side one asks a pointed question

Like this??

Christ and Paul -- "tell the truth" as it turns out. (May come as a surprise to some folks)

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
...
Would you like another quote of the chapter where Peter asks about forgiving others and Christ tells him that as a forgiven saint - he is under obligation to forgive others just as God has fully forgiven him?

Because I really enjoy discussing that teaching of Christ

Do you know the difference between what is expected of one has has already been fully forgiven vs what it expected of the lost person?? (This will be interesting).

Which of the two scenarios is Christ addressing in Matthew 18 in your opinion?

Opponent answers with...

a) No, let me tell you why from scripture.
b) Yes, let me tell you why from scripture

Indeed - anything along those lines would have been "wise" of you to choose.. so far you choose neither.

My questions for you ... again

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.?

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
...
Would you like another quote of the chapter where Peter asks about forgiving others and Christ tells him that as a forgiven saint - he is under obligation to forgive others just as God has fully forgiven him?

Do you know the difference between what is expected of one has has already been fully forgiven vs what it expected of the lost person?? (This will be interesting).

Which of the two scenarios is Christ addressing in Matthew 18 in your opinion?

 

[bluejx]

Read #40 where I have shown that Mrs White, which is what this thread is about, said this,

"In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation," to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away "unto a land not inhabited;" so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked."

This is utter BLASPHEMY!

Show ONE Scripture to support this?

Leviticus 16:8-10, 15-21 (NKJV) Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other lot for the scapegoat.
And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the Lord's lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering.
But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.
"Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat.
So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
There shall be no man in the tabernacle of meeting when he goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the assembly of Israel.
And he shall go out to the altar that is before the Lord, and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar all around.
Then he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times, cleanse it, and consecrate it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.
"And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat.
Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man.

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[BobRyan]

Read #40 where I have shown that Mrs White, which is what this thread is about, said this,

"In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation," to bless His waiting people with eternal life. ..

And missed the entire point of the teaching on "sin offering" vs "scapegoat" -- only the Lord's goat was "sin offering". Not so with the 'scapegoat'.

SR- Story of Redemption. Page 416
SR 416 "Limited alone to the earth, he will not have the privilege of ranging to other planets to tempt and anoy those who have not fallen. During this time Satan suffers extremely. Since his fall his evil traits have been in constant exercise. But he is then to be deprived of his power and left to reflect upon the part which he has acted since his fall, and to look forward with trembling and terror to the dreadful future, when he must suffer for all the evil that he has done and be punished for all the sins that he has caused to be committed.

SR 429 Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished according to their deeds. The sins of the righteous have been transferred to Satan, the originator of evil, who must bear their penalty*. Thus he is made to suffer not only for his OWN rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on....until the Justice of God is satisfied, and the saints and all the angelic host say with a loud voice. Amen.

GC 658 "He will be declared guilty of all the evil which he has caused them to commit"

Christ gave Himself an atoning sacrifice for the saving of a lost world.--Testimonies, vol. 8, p. 208. {7ABC 464.6}

The sacrifice of Christ as atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster.--Gospel Workers, p. 315. {7ABC 457.1}

Man could not atone for man. His sinful, fallen condition would constitute him an imperfect offering, an atoning sacrifice of less value than Adam before his fall. God made man perfect and upright, and after his transgression there could be no sacrifice acceptable to God for him, unless the offering made should in value be superior to man as He was in his state of perfection and innocency. {7ABC 461.2}

while we confess our sins and plead the efficacy of Christ's atoning blood, our prayers are to ascend to heaven, fragrant with the merits of our Saviour's character. Notwithstanding our unworthiness, we are to remember that there is One who can take away sin, and who is willing and anxious to save the sinner. With His own blood He paid the penalty for all wrong-doers.--The Review and Herald, Sept. 29, 1896. {7ABC 464.9}

Details missed by the shallow surface readers only trolling for "spinable" snip-quotes

 

[BobRyan]

What type of prophet is EW, who does she compare with?

How many "types" does the Bible define in your view??

Miriam and Aaron in Numbers 12:6-12 are prophets - but Moses is the one writing the Bible and speaking to God face to face at the tent of meeting according to Numbers 12.

Ellen White was not doing that - she was more like Aaron and Miriam as God also affirms them as prophets saying this.

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.

And also Deborah - a judge and a prophet.. who wrote no book of the Bible.

So also Philip's 4 daughters in the book of acts - all of whom were prophets.

not my opinion, I know nothing of her . What is SDA opinion of her, What is a comparable prophet?

ok fine...in that case the examples I gave in that prior post are the answer.



While the Trinity is easily seen in the New Testament -- it is not so easily understood from the OT text - though it is there for the diligent Bible student. The mystery of God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit - will always be an infinite topic. Even though in places like Genesis 18 Abraham "sees 3 men" yet in fact one of them is God the Son and the other two are Angels.

It does not mean that God the Son or that those two angels were merely 'men' - it only means they chose to appear in that form to Abraham.

So the kind of writing that you find in Ellen White's writings includes both correction and also revelation about past and future events -- for example

The Story of Redemption - Chapter 1 - The Fall of Lucifer

LUCIFER in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honor to God's dear Son. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Christ, God's dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Lucifer was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.

The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated creation of the

Page 14

earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. His Son would carry out His will and His purposes but would do nothing of Himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him.

Lucifer was envious and jealous of Jesus Christ. Yet when all the angels bowed to Jesus to acknowledge His supremacy and high authority and rightful rule, he bowed with them; but his heart was filled with envy and hatred. Christ had been taken into the special counsel of God in regard to His plans, while Lucifer was unacquainted with them. He did not understand, neither was he permitted to know, the purposes of God. But Christ was acknowledged sovereign of heaven, His power and authority to be the same as that of God Himself. Lucifer thought that he was himself a favorite in heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted, but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the height of God Himself. He gloried in his loftiness. He knew that he was honored by the angels. He had a special mission to execute. He had been near the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glorious light enshrouding the eternal God had shone especially upon him. He thought how angels had obeyed his command with pleasurable alacrity. Were not his garments light and beautiful? Why should Christ thus be honored before himself?

He left the immediate presence of the Father, dissatisfied and filled with envy against Jesus Christ. Concealing his real purposes, he assembled the angelic host. He introduced his subject, which was himself. As one aggrieved, he related the preference God had given Jesus to the neglect of himself. He told them that henceforth all the sweet liberty the angels had enjoyed was at an end. For had not a ruler been appointed

Page 15

over them, to whom they from henceforth must yield servile honor? He stated to them that he had called them together to assure them that he no longer would submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs; that never would he again bow down to Christ; that he would take the honor upon himself which should have been conferred upon him, and would be the commander of all who would submit to follow him and obey his voice.

There was contention among the angels. Lucifer and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God. They were discontented and unhappy because they could not look into His unsearchable wisdom and ascertain His purposes in exalting His Son, and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son.

Angels that were loyal and true sought to reconcile this mighty, rebellious angel to the will of his Creator. They justified the act of God in conferring honor upon Christ, and with forcible reasoning sought to convince Lucifer that no less honor was his now than before the Father had proclaimed the honor which He had conferred upon His Son. They clearly set forth that Christ was the Son of God, existing with Him before the angels were created; and that He had ever stood at the right hand of God, and His mild, loving authority had not heretofore been questioned; and that He had given no commands but what it was joy for the heavenly host to execute. They urged that Christ's receiving special honor from the Father, in the presence of the angels, did not detract from the honor that Lucifer had heretofore received. The angels wept. They anxiously sought to move him to renounce his wicked design and yield submission to their

 

[BobRyan]

Lol. The solution is with you. Answer mine, I'll answer yours.

Steaver has a hard time with that idea

he prefers a short "game" then some name calling, vitriol, acrimony... and then back to another game. (except when he is debating Calvinists of course.)

So I stick with questions that are on-topic and move the discussion forward for the unbiased objective readers.