What is the Religion of the Beast

[MB]

Keith Green came to Christ when he noticed that every religion he investigated claimed Jesus as their own in some way. Carl Sagan replaced Jesus with the Cosmos. Seems some physicists once predicted a triune Omega Point when the Universe would reverse and deliver itself. Soviet Communism replaced Jesus with Lenin. No doubt there are many other parallels.

There are many anti Christ more than we can count most likely.. Christ said there would be.
MB

 

[blacksheep]

They must be preaching it as they see it


You are right about the word" all," Most experts have agreed that it is all inclusive. that's as about as simple as it gets..

As far as one world religion what else would you call it when all the people worship the beast or his image?
MB

It's not as simple as you may think. It often depends on which word for ALL is used and if it's is used with or without the article, and we can't rely on the KJV, or any translation to lead us in the right direction because they often omit or add the article. The words ALL, EARTH, and WORLD, even the words IF and BUT have misled interpreters forever.

Speaking from a futurist point of view, let me give you a few examples.

Revelation 13 is a great chapter to show how the word ALL is used differently in scripture, and how the "experts" have misinterpreted it.
The word ALL is used in 7-8 different ways and can be a challenge to understand at times.

'Pas and holos' are the two most common words for ALL in the NT.
Rev: 13:3b And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And ALL the world marveled and followed the beast.
Verse 3 uses the word, 'holos.' (verse 16 uses the word 'pas'.) It also uses the word ge for world which has a variety of meanings and often implies a region. The word 'HOLOS' (all) means the entirety of the whole. It means ALL more than the many other words for ALL. Because HOLOS is coupled with the word 'ge' in verse 3, that in my view indicates the word WORLD means "the inhabited earth or the whole terrain of the earth."

This is 'ge'.
1093. ge ghay contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

arable land, the ground, the earth as a standing place, the main land as opposed to the sea or water, the earth as a whole, the earth as opposed to the heavens, the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals, a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region.

So what is the meaning of verse 3...

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

I reject most of interpretations of todays "prophecy experts" and believe that every element mentioned in verses 1-3 are all future and end-time. The heads and horns are NOT ancient world empire or a progression of them. ONE OF THE HEADS is the head of a literal man. Therefore, if a man who was once dead from a literal, fatal head wound and were to 'resurface,' yes, the entire world would marvel.

The two horned beast, considered to be the 'false prophet' in verse 16, is where people come up with the idea of a 'global one world religion' and empire which means "the mark" is also global, and I completely disagree.

The 'Mark of the beast" is associated with the false prophet, not the anti-Christ. They are a demonic duo.

V.16 He causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,...

'All in v.16 is ''PAS' and it doesn't imply the entire world but only those under the power and influence of this two horned beast. PAS is the word 'individually.' The KJV again lets us down. This is almost word for word in the Greek interlinear. The KJV has omitted the word THE six times in one verse, so I'm posting the link to the interlinear so you don't think I'm making this up.

"And he's making all the small ones and the great ones and the rich ones and the poor and the free and the slaves."
www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter.../rev13.pdf
So what difference does it make using PAS and the article?

Vines...

Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to.
The article being used indicates a SPECIFIC people, not all people, not all the rich, not all the poor, on earth etc., but only those people subject to and under the power and influence of the false prophet. You can look here to see that the article is used and that it IS in the plural.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev13.pdf

What object is that? It's NOT the entire world! The object is the two horned beast and ALL the people under his power and influence are those the mark is imposed upon. The two horned beast and his sidekick anti-Christ kingdom are situated in the region of the Middle-East. They are not worldwide empires!

The kingdom of the man of sin and false prophet are NOT global but limited to the 7/10 axis of evil kings and nations situated in the Mid-East Arab world.

 

[blacksheep]

There are many anti Christ more than we can count most likely.. Christ said there would be.
MB

But there is ONE end-time anti-Christ coming.

 

[Lodic]

It's not as simple as you may think. It often depends on which word for ALL is used and if it's is used with or without the article, and we can't rely on the KJV, or any translation to lead us in the right direction because they often omit or add the article. The words ALL, EARTH, and WORLD, even the words IF and BUT have misled interpreters forever.

I'll be leaving shortly for a nice long weekend, and wanted to reply to this. (I didn't want to quote your entire post, as it is pretty long.) I would just like to compliment you as a scholar and a gentleman. Not only do you use these sources, but you explain them well. Take care, Brother. Hope to catch up with you on Monday.

 

[blacksheep]

I'll be leaving shortly for a nice long weekend, and wanted to reply to this. (I didn't want to quote your entire post, as it is pretty long.) I would just like to compliment you as a scholar and a gentleman. Not only do you use these sources, but you explain them well. Take care, Brother. Hope to catch up with you on Monday.

Thanks brother and God bless, enjoy your weekend. I'm anxious for spring to really HIT here in NH, it's almost here.

 

[kyredneck]

I interpret every beast in Revelation 13 &17 as complete end-time entities. They are not historical in any way. Every element is FUTURE, none of it is past tense.

Wow.

9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:
10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17

At the time of the writing five of the heads had passed (Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian Empires), the book was written during the sixth head (Roman Empire), and the seventh (Holy Roman Empire) was yet to come.

...and you keeping leaving off the beast in Revelation 12, he's a major player.

 

[kyredneck]

The Lord did not supernaturally intervene in any way in 70 AD.

Lol, He 'supernaturally' was the author of it:

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

 

[kyredneck]

Daniel 7's four beast are all end-time beast. NONE of them are "past tense."

Wow, so we're to expect another Babylonian Empire? Another Medo-Persian Empire? Another Greek Empire? Another Roman Empire?

 

[JonC]

I believe it will be humanism. I am not sure it will be in one form.

 

[blacksheep]

Wow.

9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:
10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17

At the time of the writing five of the heads had passed (Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian Empires), the book was written during the sixth head (Roman Empire), and the seventh (Holy Roman Empire) was yet to come.

...and you keeping leaving off the beast in Revelation 12, he's a major player.

 

[blacksheep]

Wow.

9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:
10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17

At the time of the writing five of the heads had passed (Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian Empires), the book was written during the sixth head (Roman Empire), and the seventh (Holy Roman Empire) was yet to come.

...and you keeping leaving off the beast in Revelation 12, he's a major player.

I can tell you've never done a word study of Revelation 17.

The beast of Revelation 17 is OCCUPIED by a harlot. How can this 'harlot' or "Babylon the Great" occupy the kingdoms of Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, Medo-Persia, and Grecia Empires, and/or the Roman Empire and HOLY Roman Empire,... empires that span at least 2,600 years? In my view, that type of thinking works against good interpretation.

And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The KJV, and most every other translation, lets us down again. It ADDS the word HAVE and changes the text to HAVE FALLEN. Look closely how it's worded...(comas and bold added by me)

FIRST...
The word ARE is a third person plural present indicative. This passage isn't a reflection of PAST world empires. The heads and horns are a picture of a complete end-time entity. There ARE seven kings, "FIVE FALL" is the correct translation. That's how it's worded in the interlinear.

This is how it look in the interlinear... ...AND KINGS SEVEN ARE THE FIVE FALL AND THE ONE IS THE other NOT- as- yet CAME AND when-EVER he-MAY-BE-COMING FEW(briefly) him it-IS BINDING TO-REMAIN...
My translation from the Textus Receptus,

The mind here, the one having wisdom, the seven heads are seven mountains where the woman IS sitting on the them and they are seven kings five fall and the one is and the other has not as yet come...

Something to note,
John is taken into the desert to see the judgment of the great whore in chapter 17. The wilderness is better translated the desert. That alone omits Rome from the interpretation. The heads are said to be mountians but then they are used interchangeably with KINGS. Verses 12-16 validates these heads and horns, who are all kings as END-TIME. The 7 are kings with a kingdom/country, the horns are kings with no kingdom/country.

The evidence that these are ALL END-TIME....

How can the ten horns, which are on the 7 heads, "hate the whore, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh, and burn her with fire?" How can the 10 horns, which are on the 7 heads, "have no kingdom as yet but receive power ONE hour with the beast? IF they are all ancient empires?

How can they have ONE mind and SHALL give their power and strength to the beast...AND HOW SHALL they make war with the Lamb and the Lamb overcome them...IF they are all ancient empires? What kind of harlot can occupy the empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, Medo-Persia, and Grecia and yet "burn the harlot with fire?

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

[blacksheep]

Wow, so we're to expect another Babylonian Empire? Another Medo-Persian Empire? Another Greek Empire? Another Roman Empire?

No. What makes you think that's the way I interpret Daniel 7? You assume those ancient kingdoms are depicted in Daniel 7, I don't. Like most you presume they are the same kingdoms as Daniel 2, correct?

 

[blacksheep]

Lol, He 'supernaturally' was the author of it:

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

So you believe the Lord returned in 70 AD? Are you saying that "in flaming fire taking vengeance and punishing with everlasting destruction," the Day of the Lord passed in 70 AD?

 

[robycop3]

The beast is mto enter the temple (the one the Jews will build in Jerusalem) & declare HIMSELF to be God. While there have been a few madmen over the years who've declared themselves to be God, none has ever been a world ruler, nor entered a supposed temple of God to do it. Also, he will have an "image" within that temple, which his sidekick, the false prophet, will supernaturally cause to speak. (I say "supernaturally" because if he did it by electronic means, it'd be no marvel, & Scripture says men will marvel at the speaking image.) And also, the beast will recognize a "god of fortresses", whatever that might turn out to be.

Thus, the religion of the beast will be totally-new.

 

[robycop3]

Yes I agree the two horned beast is the false prophet. I just don't associate Israel or Nero (or Rome) with it, or Israel with it.

666 was first associated with Nero around 1,800. It's a long shot to say Nero is 666, but that would take a bit of explaining.

The issue with Preterisn is always that, 666 for example,...

EVEN IF the Revelation was written in 60-65 AD, that give very little time for this passage to be fulfilled, esp. since Nero died in 68 AD. That alone is reason enough to look somewhere else for the true meaning of 666.

Rome wasn't pushing its 'false religion' anyway so Nero and Rome just doesn't historically fit this anyway.

Please read the OP of the thread "Your Hero Nero" in the "other Christian Denominations" sub-forum to see why Nero couldn't possibly have been the 'beast/antichrist'.

 

[robycop3]

I thought that was what you had in mind. Personally, I believe this was emperor worship. The Beast whose fatal wound had been healed was the Roman Empire, which nearly collapsed with Nero's suicide in AD 68. Vespasian restored Rome in 69. Roman society was all about worshipping lots of gods. However, the emperors deemed themselves as gods, even though they also worshipped other gods themselves. What got their goat was that Jews and Christians only worshipped YHWH. Obviously this is not a popular view, especially in a Baptist forum. Still, it's how I see it.

No, Rome did NOT nearly collapse with Nero's suicide. The "Pax Romana" remained firmly in place, the Senate & tribune system still functioned efficiently. The only problem was at the very top, with several men trying to be Caesar til Vespasian routed them & restored a stable Caesarship.

And, by admitting Nero's suicide, toy've countered your claim that Nero was the "beast", and here's why:

rev. 19: 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipedhis image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[robycop3]

Wow.

9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:
10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17

At the time of the writing five of the heads had passed (Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian Empires), the book was written during the sixth head (Roman Empire), and the seventh (Holy Roman Empire) was yet to come.

...and you keeping leaving off the beast in Revelation 12, he's a major player.

And the 8th will be the empire of the "beast", which will at first be made up of many of the nations & peoples of the 6th & 7th empires. Both the "man of sin" & his empire are called beasts.

 

[Rob_BW]

I believe it will be humanism. I am not sure it will be in one form.

No matter the form, still the same goal as always.

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

 

[MB]

It's not as simple as you may think. It often depends on which word for ALL is used and if it's is used with or without the article, and we can't rely on the KJV, or any translation to lead us in the right direction because they often omit or add the article. The words ALL, EARTH, and WORLD, even the words IF and BUT have misled interpreters forever.

Speaking from a futurist point of view, let me give you a few examples.

Revelation 13 is a great chapter to show how the word ALL is used differently in scripture, and how the "experts" have misinterpreted it.
The word ALL is used in 7-8 different ways and can be a challenge to understand at times.

'Pas and holos' are the two most common words for ALL in the NT.
Rev: 13:3b And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And ALL the world marveled and followed the beast.
Verse 3 uses the word, 'holos.' (verse 16 uses the word 'pas'.) It also uses the word ge for world which has a variety of meanings and often implies a region. The word 'HOLOS' (all) means the entirety of the whole. It means ALL more than the many other words for ALL. Because HOLOS is coupled with the word 'ge' in verse 3, that in my view indicates the word WORLD means "the inhabited earth or the whole terrain of the earth."

This is 'ge'.
1093. ge ghay contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

arable land, the ground, the earth as a standing place, the main land as opposed to the sea or water, the earth as a whole, the earth as opposed to the heavens, the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals, a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region.

So what is the meaning of verse 3...

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

I reject most of interpretations of todays "prophecy experts" and believe that every element mentioned in verses 1-3 are all future and end-time. The heads and horns are NOT ancient world empire or a progression of them. ONE OF THE HEADS is the head of a literal man. Therefore, if a man who was once dead from a literal, fatal head wound and were to 'resurface,' yes, the entire world would marvel.

The two horned beast, considered to be the 'false prophet' in verse 16, is where people come up with the idea of a 'global one world religion' and empire which means "the mark" is also global, and I completely disagree.

The 'Mark of the beast" is associated with the false prophet, not the anti-Christ. They are a demonic duo.

V.16 He causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,...

'All in v.16 is ''PAS' and it doesn't imply the entire world but only those under the power and influence of this two horned beast. PAS is the word 'individually.' The KJV again lets us down. This is almost word for word in the Greek interlinear. The KJV has omitted the word THE six times in one verse, so I'm posting the link to the interlinear so you don't think I'm making this up.

"And he's making all the small ones and the great ones and the rich ones and the poor and the free and the slaves."
www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter.../rev13.pdf
So what difference does it make using PAS and the article?

Vines...

Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to.
The article being used indicates a SPECIFIC people, not all people, not all the rich, not all the poor, on earth etc., but only those people subject to and under the power and influence of the false prophet. You can look here to see that the article is used and that it IS in the plural.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev13.pdf

What object is that? It's NOT the entire world! The object is the two horned beast and ALL the people under his power and influence are those the mark is imposed upon. The two horned beast and his sidekick anti-Christ kingdom are situated in the region of the Middle-East. They are not worldwide empires!

The kingdom of the man of sin and false prophet are NOT global but limited to the 7/10 axis of evil kings and nations situated in the Mid-East Arab world.

None of this is believable.Perter-ism doesn't interest me because it isn't biblical.
MB

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Lol, He 'supernaturally' was the author of it:

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

Why do you think these things are confined to AD 70? Do you think that no families in AD 71 through to today were or are divided over Christ?