What Is Unacceptable in Corporate Worship?

[Scripture More Accurately]

The instruments used are irrelevant.

If I drum on a skeleton skull to the glory of God while I am in a hike, God is glorified. If I set up those skulls and call attention to the skulls and drumming, then it isn't worship to God.

These are patently unbiblical notions. God demands that His people be holy people in everything that they do. God did not create humans or their body parts so that their dead bodies or any parts of their dead bodies would be used in any manner as musical instruments. Using real human skulls as drums is an unholy practice that desecrates human bones. All such misuse of human skulls profanes God and the image of God in man.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

The intentional use by many CCM/CWM musicians of a breathy kind of whispering singing injects sensuality into corporate worship that makes it not acceptable to God. There is no place for such singing by those who lead God's people in corporate worship that is supposed to please God first and foremost.

I agree with that and my wife and I notice that. What really annoys us is when supposed men singers sing CCM like that and whisper. We are to proclaim the Glory of our Lord from the mountaintops, not to the Church mice AND we are to do it in a way that honors both men and women. We don't have to be blasting music out, but it should be joyous.

Male CCM singers think they're being super spiritual when they're whispering into the mic about boyfriend Jesus, but they're actually being an effeminate man with the facial expressions one has during marital relations. It's not worship, it's an emotional, feelings-based worship and the man is in sin for being effeminate.

Worshipping God and feeling emotional is good.
Feeling emotional and therefore you think you're worshipping God is bad.

A funny note on hand raising from Tim Hawkins haha:

 

[AustinC]

These are patently unbiblical notions. God demands that His people be holy people in everything that they do. God did not create humans or their body parts so that their dead bodies or any parts of their dead bodies would be used in any manner as musical instruments. Using real human skulls as drums is an unholy practice that desecrates human bones. All such misuse of human skulls profanes God and the image of God in man.

Yes, we are a holy people.
You, however, are living under the Old Covenant Law and you are making up rules of holiness that you think are holy when, in fact, they are filthy rags.

Now, in reality, who would ever go get a human skull to drum on as a Christian? No one, that I know of. So, you've immediately created a ridiculous scenario. But, I find no place in the Bible that says I cannot make a drum set from human bones. So, if you are going to create laws, then you must show us where these laws have been created by our King, or admit you're just creating them yourself and telling everyone that you are God's law maker by your own declaration.

The issue here, SMA, is that you are presenting a graceless gospel.

 

[JonC]

Yes, my church worships with people singing loudly, etc. Mount Calvary Baptist Church

Hallelujah for the Cross - MCBC Communion - YouTube

I didn't hear the drums, horns or harps. That said, I enjoyed the video.

I have to ask. The Psalm mentions several things to do.

It says to sing aloud.
It days to beat the drums (hand drums....kinda like tambourines).
It says to use a harp.
Ir says to blow horns.


Why did you select "sing aloud" and ignore the rest of the Psalm?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I didn't hear the drums, horns or harps. That said, I enjoyed the video.

I have to ask. The Psalm mentions several things to do.

It says to sing aloud.
It days to beat the drums (hand drums....kinda like tambourines).
It says to use a harp.
Ir says to blow horns.

Why did you select "sing aloud" and ignore the rest of the Psalm?

The video that you saw was only one of the songs that we sang in worship on that evening. That service was many years ago, but I am confident that in some of the other songs we did use some of those other instruments.

We do have people playing harps, horns, and some percussion instruments regularly in our services, but you will never hear any music in my church where the use of percussion is anything like what characterizes CCM/CWM.

In addition, I am not ignoring the rest of the Psalm. When you carefully and thoroughly compare Scripture with Scripture, it's clear that what Psalm 81 teaches has to be harmonized with other passages. Those passages shows that God has accepted corporate worship that did not always feature the use of all the same combinations of instruments played at the same time.

For example, 2 Chronicles 5 records one of the most important occasions of corporate worship in the history of the world-- at the dedication of the Solomonic Temple. The biblical record of that event speaks of the use of cymbals, psalteries, harps, and trumpets (2 Chron. 5:12-14) but does not say anything about the use of timbrels, tabrets, or any other kinds of drum-like instruments.

We know with absolute certainty that God accepted that corporate worship that does not mention the use of any drum-like instruments.

 

[JonC]

The video that you saw was only one of the songs that we sang in worship on that evening. That service was many years ago, but I am confident that in some of the other songs we did use some of those other instruments.

In addition, I am not ignoring the rest of the Psalm. When you carefully and thoroughly compare Scripture with Scripture, it's clear that what Psalm 81 teaches has to be harmonized with other passages. Those passages shows that God has accepted corporate worship that did not always feature the use of all the same combinations of instruments played at the same time.

But God also accepts whispering (1 Sam 1, for example).

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

But God also accepts whispering (1 Sam 1, for example).

First Samuel 1 was not corporate worship and did not involve anyone whispering in singing to God in corporate worship. There is zero Scripture that shows that God has ever accepted whispering in singing that was done in corporate worship.

 

[AustinC]

First Samuel 1 was not corporate worship and did not involve anyone whispering in singing to God in corporate worship. There is zero Scripture that shows that God has ever accepted whispering in singing that was done in corporate worship.

How about if God give you laryngitis? Can you whisper in singing or is that also one of your laws that are broken?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

How about if God give you laryngitis? Can you whisper in singing or is that also one of your laws that are broken?

In principle, I already addressed such a situation back in message #3:

"Scripture makes it plain that characteristically whispering out lyrics when singing (excepting, of course, those who are physically incapable of singing aloud) has no place in acceptable corporate worship"

A person who has laryngitis is (temporarily) physically incapable of singing aloud . . .

 

[Salty]

How about if God give you laryngitis? Can you whisper in singing or is that also one of your laws that are broken?

I think that is the unpardonable sin

 

[JonC]

First Samuel 1 was not corporate worship and did not involve anyone whispering in singing to God in corporate worship. There is zero Scripture that shows that God has ever accepted whispering in singing that was done in corporate worship.

There is also zero Scripture saying God accepts worship using an organ.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

There is also zero Scripture saying God accepts worship using an organ.

So what? Whispering in singing when one is physically capable of singing aloud fails to meet God's explicitly and repeatedly stated requirement that people sing aloud.

 

[JonC]

So what? Whispering in singing when one is physically capable of singing aloud fails to meet God's explicitly and repeatedly stated requirement that people sing aloud.

So is playing an organ when Scripture specifically commands us to use harps, trumpets and hand drums.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

So is playing an organ when Scripture specifically commands us to use harps, trumpets and hand drums.

According to your handling of Scripture, all the Israelites failed to worship God properly at the dedication of the Solomonic Temple because the passage does not say that they used "hand" drums on that occasion. Of course, your handling of Scripture is wrong because the passage explicitly shows that God accepted their worship that does not mention any use of "hand" drums.

 

[AustinC]

In principle, I already addressed such a situation back in message #3:

"Scripture makes it plain that characteristically whispering out lyrics when singing (excepting, of course, those who are physically incapable of singing aloud) has no place in acceptable corporate worship"

A person who has laryngitis is (temporarily) physically incapable of singing aloud . . .

How about the person whose vocal nodes incapacitates his ability to speak loud? I have a friend whose wife has to get her throat scraped every few months to keep her air passage open due to scaring. She can only whisper her songs. Is God wrathful toward her for not singing loudly?

SMA, I pray that one day God shows you what grace is.

 

[DaveXR650]

Does anyone know how best to get though "And Can It Be" without getting choked up?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

How about the person whose vocal nodes incapacitates his ability to speak loud? I have a friend whose wife has to get her throat scraped every few months to keep her air passage open due to scaring. She can only whisper her songs. Is God wrathful toward her for not singing loudly?

SMA, I pray that one day God shows you what grace is.

I have already answered these questions back in message #3. What's acceptable to God from people who are physically incapable has no relevance for those who choose to disobey God when they have the ability to obey Him.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

SMA, I pray that one day God shows you what grace is.

The true grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

Playing skull drums, singing like a harlot, twerking, whispering in singing when one is capable of singing aloud, and much more are all manifestations of ungodliness and worldly lusts that God's true grace teaches us to deny.

 

[AustinC]

I have already answered these questions back in message #3. What's acceptable to God from people who are physically incapable has no relevance for those who choose to disobey God when they have the ability to obey Him.

So, your law has a loophole. Got it.

 

[AustinC]

The true grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

Playing skull drums, singing like a harlot, twerking, whispering in singing when one is capable of singing aloud, and much more are all manifestations of ungodliness and worldly lusts that God's true grace teaches us to deny.

I'm still waiting for your law book to be published. Since God's word never has the regulations you have created, I wonder where you have created your book of law.