Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
So what? This does not prove anything about the assertions that you made earlier. All it does is show that you do not have any Scripture to support your views.
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What Is Unacceptable in Corporate Worship?
- Thread starter Scripture More Accurately
- Start date
Sure it does. It shows you that God is not angry with anyone who worships Him in Spirit and Truth. God's grace trumps your laws.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
This is so telling. You make assertions and cannot back them up with any evidence from Scripture.
AustinC said:
I assert grace is greater than your law and I back it up with scripture.
You keep going to the law, you create your own law from that and then tell everyone that they must follow your law or else God will hate them.
SMA, you are a graceless person and you get upset when I don't play the game according to your law.
God's grace gives us freedom from your law and I will eternally rejoice that God's grace is greater than your law.
I have nothing more to say. Your pride and ego will likely remain ensconced in your law so that anyone not following it will be berated. I can live with that.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
You have a false understanding of grace vs. law. God's grace does not give you any freedom to partake of anything that is from the occult.
In any case, I am glad that you will not be commenting any further in this thread.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
From what you have written on this post you seem to think that you are to live under the OT laws. You have decided that only certain types of music are ok as those are the only ones you see in the OT. But you do not get to choose what OT laws you want to follow, so I have to ask you when did you do your last sacrifice to cover your sins and where and who did them for you? You come across being very legalistic but what you seem to overlook is this verse in the bible that is for all Christians.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Note the bold text and think about what you have been posting and be thankful that you are not under law.
Except their meat. And wine.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
You are very badly mistaken in what you think that I think. When the Bible says that we are not under law but under grace, it is talking about the Mosaic Law. You seem to falsely think that everything in the OT was part of the Mosaic Law. If so, your understanding of Scripture is deeply flawed.
God's prohibitions against the occult are in both Testaments, and He has specifically commanded Christians not to have anything to do with the unfruitful works of darkness (Eph. 5:11). Not being under law but under grace does not vitiate in any way any of God's commands against the occult.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
And it appears that you have set yourself up as the judge of what is to be considered occult as far as music goes. A bit prideful it would seem.
ADMIN NOTE:
OK - enough of the insults!
Just to remind you:
This is the OP:
Everything that is done in corporate worship must be done "unto edifying" (1 Cor. 14:26), "decently, and in order" (1 Cor. 14:40), and "with charity" (1 Cor. 16:14).
It must all be lawful, expedient, and edifying, and it must not bring anyone under its power (1 Cor. 6:12; 10:23).
Based on these divine requirements, "whispered" singing, twerking (a kind of immoral dancing), the use of real human skulls as drums, and the playing of distinctively occult percussive music are all unacceptable to God for use in corporate worship.
OK - enough of the insults!
Just to remind you:
This is the OP:
Everything that is done in corporate worship must be done "unto edifying" (1 Cor. 14:26), "decently, and in order" (1 Cor. 14:40), and "with charity" (1 Cor. 16:14).
It must all be lawful, expedient, and edifying, and it must not bring anyone under its power (1 Cor. 6:12; 10:23).
Based on these divine requirements, "whispered" singing, twerking (a kind of immoral dancing), the use of real human skulls as drums, and the playing of distinctively occult percussive music are all unacceptable to God for use in corporate worship.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Is that so? I hope that you are prepared to back up these comments with thorough evidence for your claims.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Just read through your responses to comments re music on this thread. Or just look at the comment you made to me, very aggressive tone. Why? You have not come across as a person that is willing to listen to others comments.
The style of music is the least of the problems that we have in a number of our churches, many have forgotten why they are gathering together in the first place. It is not to be entertained it is to worship the creator and our Lord.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Maybe go back and take a hard look at the nature of your comments to me. I am not going to allow you to make the discussion in this thread all about the shortcomings that you think that I have. This thread has a specific subject . . .
I disagree profoundly with your opinion that the style of music being used in many churches today is "the least of the problems that we have."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. You think the style of music is the major problem we have in our churches I disagree. But then I am not attending the church you do so perhaps the music at your is really bad.
As to any shortcomings that you may have those are for you to work out but I just pointed out some things you may want to attend to.
It does seem odd that you would raise music choice as a major problem in churches today above the lack of the gospel message being preached. But it seems your priorities are different than mine.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Both of these statements are false and misrepresent me.
I have never said that "the style of music is the major problem we have in our churches. . . [bold and underlining added to the original for emphasis]."
Nor did I ever say that music choice is "a major problem in churches today above the lack of the gospel message being preached [bold and underlining added to the original for emphasis]."
I will leave it between you and God to determine how and why you were able to make such blatantly false statements about me.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Read your posts regarding music. You see it as a major problem where others do not. If you are going to become so invested in something regarding the church service then do you not think concern about the message would be a better use of your time?
You have spent 11 days on this and your focus has been the music even when others have pointed out the error of your view.
You said in a prior post "
You consider divine commands to be optional?
Mouthing the words or not singing at all in corporate worship is not acceptable to God. Giving God glory through singing to Him in corporate worship is not optional."
So my question for you is do you fulfill all of God divine commands or are some only optional? You do remind me of legalists that I have dealt with, you pick one command and you hang your hat on it as the test of orthodoxy.
You have a good day and I hope you can find a church that can adhere to your high standard.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Getting back to the topic of this thread, it is noteworthy that occult music, unacceptable dancing, and unacceptable singing all characterize the use of rock music and rock-based music, including in much of CCM and CWM.
In that regard, Scripture speaks of occult whispering of occultists who engage in occult practices with demons:
God here reveals to us that those who have familiar spirits (demons) speak "out of the ground" and their speech whispers "out of the dust."
Previously, we have seen that God commands that His people sing out loud. In connection to that revelation, we see also that He speaks of the evil practice of occultists who use whispered speech.
His revealing this evil practice of occultists instructs us that our speech and therefore also our singing must not be conformed to any extent to the wickedness of those with familiar spirits.
Whispered singing has zero place in acceptable corporate worship. Consecrated believers must reject and denounce all such singing in churches.
In that regard, Scripture speaks of occult whispering of occultists who engage in occult practices with demons:
Isaiah 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
God here reveals to us that those who have familiar spirits (demons) speak "out of the ground" and their speech whispers "out of the dust."
Previously, we have seen that God commands that His people sing out loud. In connection to that revelation, we see also that He speaks of the evil practice of occultists who use whispered speech.
His revealing this evil practice of occultists instructs us that our speech and therefore also our singing must not be conformed to any extent to the wickedness of those with familiar spirits.
Whispered singing has zero place in acceptable corporate worship. Consecrated believers must reject and denounce all such singing in churches.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
My question for you is; are we to judge who are "Consecrated believers" by the way they sing? Or should we trust that God looks at the heart of those that worship Him. We do not have to sing lustily to get His attention. I think you are being overly legalistic in your approach to scripture.
As I said before do you SMA adhere to all God's commands in this way or just the ones that you think you fulfill.
Isaiah 29 has nothing to do with whispered singing.
*Isaiah 29:1-16*
“What sorrow awaits Ariel, the City of David. Year after year you celebrate your feasts. Yet I will bring disaster upon you, and there will be much weeping and sorrow. For Jerusalem will become what her name Ariel means— an altar covered with blood. I will be your enemy, surrounding Jerusalem and attacking its walls. I will build siege towers and destroy it.
Then deep from the earth you will speak; from low in the dust your words will come. Your voice will whisper from the ground like a ghost conjured up from the grave.
“But suddenly, your ruthless enemies will be crushed like the finest of dust. Your many attackers will be driven away like chaff before the wind. Suddenly, in an instant, I, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, will act for you with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with whirlwind and storm and consuming fire. All the nations fighting against Jerusalem will vanish like a dream! Those who are attacking her walls will vanish like a vision in the night. A hungry person dreams of eating but wakes up still hungry. A thirsty person dreams of drinking but is still faint from thirst when morning comes. So it will be with your enemies, with those who attack Mount Zion.” Are you amazed and incredulous? Don’t you believe it? Then go ahead and be blind. You are stupid, but not from wine! You stagger, but not from liquor! For the Lord has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has closed the eyes of your prophets and visionaries. All the future events in this vision are like a sealed book to them. When you give it to those who can read, they will say, “We can’t read it because it is sealed.” When you give it to those who cannot read, they will say, “We don’t know how to read.” And so the Lord says, “These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote. Because of this, I will once again astound these hypocrites with amazing wonders. The wisdom of the wise will pass away, and the intelligence of the intelligent will disappear.” What sorrow awaits those who try to hide their plans from the Lord, who do their evil deeds in the dark! “The Lord can’t see us,” they say. “He doesn’t know what’s going on!” How foolish can you be? He is the Potter, and he is certainly greater than you, the clay! Should the created thing say of the one who made it, “He didn’t make me”? Does a jar ever say, “The potter who made me is stupid”?
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
I regard your notions about "legalism" and "legalistic" to be unbiblical and nonsensical. Christ taught that those who love God keep His commandments.
Although none of us keep His commandments perfectly, that is no excuse for failing to deal with disobedience in corporate worship that promotes the use of occult practices and conforms to the evil ways of the world.