What is your definition of a Calvinist?

[Aaron]

You calvinist are the ones that think God has to give you faith so you can believe and that after you are saved. That is not a biblical concept but you will hold to it.

K. That's just you saying that some men by nature possess a quality that merits election. So you agree with me, that Classic Arminianism says that election isn't all of God, contrary to Honest Jon's assertions.

 

[Revmitchell]

Except that is not how God designed it. You do not find that in Scripture. Christ laid his life down for the sheep.

Further I would add that it doesn't say that Christ laid down His life only for His sheep. You cannot prove that Christ did not die for all the world by showing that He did die for a portion of the world. The is a logical fallacy.

 

[37818]

IOW, not if the condition is no conditions?

Universalism, if really universalism, has no conditions.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 4 am EDT / 1 am PDT

 

[AustinC]

Further I would add that it doesn't say that Christ laid down His life only for His sheep. You cannot prove that Christ did not die for all the world by showing that He did die for a portion of the world. The is a logical fallacy.

If Christ died for all the world, why does God only cause some to be born again and not all? It is God who causes a person to be born again. It is not the human beings choice that causes salvation (being born again).

1 Peter 1:3-5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The more you let scripture inform you, the more you see that God is the cause and our response is the effect.

 

[Silverhair]

There's no such thing as Calvinism. No one sat down to codify 'Calvinism' like the disciples of Arminius did their Five Points of Remonstrance, or their objections to the Gospel breaking forth from the fangs of Romanism.

It's just that Calvin was a principal player (like Luther) in the drama that unfolded, and the most noteworthy, and the first in modern history to set down in order and expound on the main tenets of the Christian faith in his magnum opus, The Institutes of the Christian Religion, which follows the outline of the Apostles' Creed.

It seemed new to those who walked in the darkness of Rome, so it got labled with Calvin's name, but the Morning Star of the Reformation was John Wycliffe, and he was a Calvinist three hundred years prior to the advent of John Calvin, and twelve hundred years before that, was Paul.

Paul was the first in the history of the world to expound at length on the doctrine of election, or the Doctrines of Grace, as they are called now.

So there is no such thing as Calvinism. There is no Calvinist church, like there is a Lutheran church. And there is no Pauline Church. There is only the Gospel.

You were doing quite good until you got to Paul. But then I am not surprised at what calvinists do in order to make their theology sound biblical.
Actually if you want to see where Calvins ideas came from you just have to read Augustine. And for Augustines ideas just look at Mani who was the founder of Manichaeism a gnostic cult.

Prior to his conversion in the fourth century, Augustine was heavily involved in a pseudo-Christian Gnostic cult that held heretical ideas regarding the nature of God as well as the person of Christ. All of the Gnostic cultists were heavily influenced by the writings of the Greek philosophers. And Augustine was no exception.

Like they say, if the root of the tree is rotten then so is the tree. And we see what the root of calvinism is.

 

[Silverhair]

At the end of the day, absolutely.

Calvinism (soteriology) is just another word for biblical teaching on salvation.

That is just a story line that you keep pushing, but it is just that a story. Calvinist deny clear scripture or read into it what they want to find, so sorry it is not biblical.

 

[Silverhair]

If Christ died for all the world, why does God only cause some to be born again and not all? It is God who causes a person to be born again. It is not the human beings choice that causes salvation (being born again).

1 Peter 1:3-5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The more you let scripture inform you, the more you see that God is the cause and our response is the effect.

Always find it funny how you fail to bold the text the blows your theory. "through faith for a salvation "

And you conveniently ignore anything that shows that the condition of salvation is faith.

The condition is faith.
2Ti_3:15 salvation through faith
Rom_3:22 righteousness of God through faith
Rom_3:30 justify the uncircumcised through faith
Gal_2:16 justified by faith in Christ
Gal_3:14 receive the promise of the Spirit through faith
Gal 3:26 sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith
Eph 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith
Col 2:12 you were also raised up with Him through faith

Sure looks like faith is a condition.

 

[Silverhair]

K. That's just you saying that some men by nature possess a quality that merits election. So you agree with me, that Classic Arminianism says that election isn't all of God, contrary to Honest Jon's assertions.

Salvation is all of God, man can not save himself. But what you just refuse to grasp is that God has set the condition of salvation and that is faith in His son.
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

When you meet the condition that God has set then He will save you, it really is not that hard to understand once you remove the calvinist blinders.

 

[Aaron]

You were doing quite good until you got to Paul. But then I am not surprised at what calvinists ... blah, blah, blah.

LOL. Do you want to debate it, or just bluster about it? If you want to debate it start a new thread and I'll engage you.

 

[Silverhair]

You have to realize many Calvinists use a lot of "double-speak".

"Whole World" means "the elect in the whole world".
"Foreknowledge" means "had a relationship with" rather than "know beforehand" or even to "choose beforehand"
"For" means "instead of".
"Cup" means "wrath'.
"All" means "all of the elect".
"Forsake" means "separated from".
"We esteemed" means "God esteemed".
"Propitiation" means "experienced wrath".

And if Scripture cannot fit with those changes then it is just "mystery".

Simple English seems to be a real challenge for many of them. The will twist and dodge so as to make a pretzel look straight.

 

[Silverhair]

LOL. Do you want to debate it, or just bluster about it? If you want to debate it start a new thread and I'll engage you.

We have engaged on a number of threads and it is always the same response from the calvinist, you do not understand calvinism.

If you think what I said about calvin or augustine is wrong then do some research for yourself. It will not take you long to see what the root of calvinism is.

 

[Aaron]

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

So, faith does come from God?

But you just implied men possess it by nature:

You calvinist are the ones that think God has to give you faith so you can believe and that after you are saved. That is not a biblical concept but you will hold to it.

Which is it? Does God have to impart faith or not?

 

[SovereignGrace]

So, faith does come from God?

But you just implied men possess it by nature:


Which is it? Does God have to impart faith or not?

Notice the smugness in his posts. How dare God give him that which he already possesses. He does not need God's help. He will deny this until the sickly kine come home, but that is exactly the view he is expressing.

 

[JonC]

Notice the smugness in his posts. How dare God give him that which he already possesses. He does not need God's help. He will deny this until the sickly kine come home, but that is exactly the view he is expressing.

How are you defining God "helping" us in terms of moving man to salvation?

 

[SovereignGrace]

How are you defining God "helping" us in terms of moving man to salvation?

By quickening us. Divine quickening is an absolute must. Before that, man does not possess faith.

 

[Reformed1689]

You have to realize many Calvinists use a lot of "double-speak".

"Whole World" means "the elect in the whole world".
"Foreknowledge" means "had a relationship with" rather than "know beforehand" or even to "choose beforehand"
"For" means "instead of".
"Cup" means "wrath'.
"All" means "all of the elect".
"Forsake" means "separated from".
"We esteemed" means "God esteemed".
"Propitiation" means "experienced wrath".

And if Scripture cannot fit with those changes then it is just "mystery".

There are so many strawman arguments and ignorant statements in this post it is ridiculous.

 

[Reformed1689]

Further I would add that it doesn't say that Christ laid down His life only for His sheep. You cannot prove that Christ did not die for all the world by showing that He did die for a portion of the world. The is a logical fallacy.

It also never states that he died for all people individually. Not one place in Scripture says that. But it does say he laid his life down for the sheep, for the church, for his people. The evidence is that it was for the elect and the elect alone.

 

[kyredneck]

Notice the smugness in his posts.

...he's just another dime-a-dozen self-appointed 'Calvinist slayer'.

 

[Revmitchell]

It also never states that he died for all people individually. Not one place in Scripture says that.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Now you may want to interpret those verses differently but it would be dishonest to say that a case cannot be made.