What killed snake handler Coots

[Aaron]

A truly born again preacher is a studious person, they hunger after knowledge and read a lot.

That's true. The Spirit we have received is of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Still, one can be deceived. Coot's problem wasn't his lack of education.

If a preacher is truly given to his call he can take one book, the bible and by the leadership of the Holy Spirit learn what God will grant him.

I agree with this with one caveat, the Scriptures teach us to listen to preachers and teachers, which also means reading their books. But one would not need other books to avoid Coot's trap, because the Scriptures clearly teach us not to put God to the test.

If I were simple-minded enough to think that Mark 16 could be read even on its face the way Luke thinks it reads without re-education, the story of Christ's temptation to throw Himself from a pinnacle of the temple would be enough to teach me that snake-handling ain't what it's about.

Knowledge puffeth up and there has been a many a seminary graduate leave with a larger hat size than when they entered.

That is very true. If I read Luke's posts, correctly, someone told him the text of Mark was corrupted and is somewhat dubious, and THAT is why he isn't snake-handling.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's true. The Spirit we have received is of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Still, one can be deceived. Coot's problem wasn't his lack of education.


I agree with this with one caveat, the Scriptures teach us to listen to preachers and teachers, which also means reading their books. But one would not need other books to avoid Coot's trap, because the Scriptures clearly teach us not to put God to the test.

If I were simple-minded enough to think that Mark 16 could be read even on its face the way Luke thinks it reads without re-education, the story of Christ's temptation to throw Himself from a pinnacle of the temple would be enough to teach me that snake-handling ain't what it's about.

That is very true. If I read Luke's posts, correctly, someone told him the text of Mark was corrupted and is somewhat dubious, and THAT is why he isn't snake-handling.

Isn't the real truth though that ALL chrsitians have the Holy Spirit to instruct/teach/show us how to apply truth revealed, so we can know and live the bible regardless if formally educated?

As sometimes. seminary and more learning made one 'mad", see reverend pike, Rudoplh Bultmann, Bishop Spong, etc!

 

[Aaron]

Isn't the real truth though that ALL chrsitians have the Holy Spirit to instruct/teach/show us how to apply truth revealed, so we can know and live the bible regardless if formally educated?

Yes and no.

Yes, all have the Holy Spirit that will guide them into all truth.

No, in the sense that one does not need teachers.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes and no.

Yes, all have the Holy Spirit that will guide them into all truth.

No, in the sense that one does not need teachers.

i agree with teacher/pastors, as they are gifts of the Lord unto the church, to mature and build os up in the faith, but my point is that christian can have the Spirit teach them thru pastors/teachers, and by himself in personal studies, without need to go to seminary!

 

[Aaron]

That is most certainly true.

 

[righteousdude2]

Back at you!

If the Bible says to do it it does not matter how childish or dangerous or insane something is- you better obey!

Their problem is not that they did not recognize that is was dangerous. They knew it was dangerous.

Their problem was that they thought that the Bible taught they should do it. That's why some education in hermeneutics (the science of properly interpreting texts) would have saved Coots life.

But you are oversimplifying the problem by saying it is that they didn't have better sense than to play with snakes. They knew it was dangerous. That was not the problem. The problem was that they thought the Bible taught that they should do it in spite of the danger.

God bless, RD!:thumbsup:

Ditto :thumbs::wavey:

 

[JPPT1974]

Would not touch snakes, especially if they are poisonous. But really not really scared of them. As long as I am far and away from them LOL!

But seriously, thoughts and prayers are with his family in this tough time!

 

[righteousdude2]

You get the POINTS

Would not touch snakes, especially if they are poisonous. But really not really scared of them. As long as I am far and away from them LOL!

But seriously, thoughts and prayers are with his family in this tough time!

I don't believe I've seen this thought anywhere in this debate, and you get the brownie points for shwing your compassion! We should all be praying for the family, and church, and throw in that prayer, His wisdom to come down on the survivoring members to realize how stupid this really is! God bless and welcome to the board!

 

[evangelist6589]

His death is tragic. More tragic, however, is the stupidity he promulgated that led to it. A SEMESTER in a good seminary would have kept him alive. The unbridled ignorance filling so many pulpits in America is doing immeasurable harm to the Kingdom of God here.

But what killed him was not the snake that bit him. What killed him was far deadlier. What killed Coots is killing the influence of Christianity in this nation, and, by proxy, killing the nation. The real killer was a deadly, venomous cocktail of ignorance and arrogance. Jamie Coots was a snake handler because he did not know some things that a decent seminary education would have taught him. He did not receive such an education because he believed he did not need one. He thought God spoke to him. Hear it from his own lips:

“You feel that anointing and then the Lord speaks to your heart telling you what to do. It is a feeling of power, but it is a feeling of peace,” he said then. “You’re in your body and you know what you’re doing and you can’t control it. There is such a power coming over you and you are obedient to the Spirit of God and you compelled to do what He tells you and you know it will be all right.”- Jamie Coots

Who needs to know the original languages when the God who gave the Bible interprets it in one’s own head for him? Who needs hermeneutics (science of proper interpretation of texts) when the Holy Ghost gives you powerful emotional experiences, trances, in which he reveals the meaning of texts? Thinking that God does that keeps one from pursuing the education he needs and puffs one up with unfathomable pride. Ignorance and arrogance- these mingle to make the deadly cocktail that killed this Christian and is killing Christianity in this culture.

This kind of arrogance and ignorance is not limited to snake handlers. It is coursing through the veins of every Christian who spurns education, who thinks God speaks to him and he does not need teachers.

This kind of arrogance and ignorance is the truly deadly venom in this culture today.

Well said Luke, well said. You know MacArthur had a recent conference and speaks of the Charismatic movement and their "New Revelation" deadly heresies. They often defend their heresies with the word "love" which in their brains means not having discernment and accepting every teaching as gospel truth. But you are right in that ignorance and arrogance has poisoned the church today. Many these days do not like to study the bible, read books, nor dive into theology. They think that they can read the Bible and interpret it anyway they please and without the help of good books. This attitude also shows up here on the BB in posters like WinMan among others. A man whom denies "Original Sin" and promotes "semi-pelagainism."

 

[evangelist6589]

I remember this one a while back.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...shines-light-on-lethal-appalachian-tradition/

It really is sad how misguided people can be. Snake handlers, Heaven’s Gate, Scientology…the list goes on.

Luke is right. The result of discipleship:

As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; Ephesians 4:14

There are loads of false converts whom think they are saved because they said a prayer. They DO NOT understand the word CONVERSION/REGENERATION.

 

[evangelist6589]

That's what education does. It humbles us. It shows us how much we don't know.

Why get educated, why listen to man's opinion? No I do not need to read any books for I will only read the Bible. I suggest you toss all your books, lexicons, greek Dictionaries away Luke and get to reading your Bible! Man's opinion shows up in all your books.

 

[evangelist6589]

Think he died due to misunderstand/bad interpretation of the passage at end if the Gospel of mark!

And he didi not need seminary, just someone to show him valid rules on how to study and apply the Bible!

Which is exegesis without Biblical theology is worthless. Don't take one passage out of content of the entire NT.

 

[evangelist6589]

Which you learn in seminary.

I have yet to see a church teach a hermeneutics course.

A former Reformed Bible Church I once attended did.

 

[evangelist6589]

Most people are idiots. The Bible says that. But also we see it every day. It's how people like Obama get elected to office. Most people are morons. They are sheep having no shepherd. Sheep are naturally stupid. Most people are stupid.

Common sense in a world of stupid people is... stupidity.

Luke I say this in kindness but you need to watch your pride brother. You are condemning others and not looking at yourself. You are turning people away from Reformed theology by your words and attitude. You love books then read this one.

Respectable Sins

 

[evangelist6589]

I don't think it tragic. I think it ironic and a bit humorous.

Good is the operative term. Heck, for that matter, reading a good sermon from a non-seminary-educated C. H. Spurgeon might have done the trick. And I've sat under some powerful, devout and spiritual preaching from men who've never been to seminary.

His snake-handling wasn't an education issue, though. It was a spiritual issue, kind of like the day-equals-epoch in Genesis 1.

Humorous??? Humorous??? When someone dies you call that funny?? Man oh man I am saddened by the attitude I see in some Reformed whom do nothing but give Arminian ammunition against us.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Humorous??? Humorous??? When someone dies you call that funny?? Man oh man I am saddened by the attitude I see in some Reformed whom do nothing but give Arminian ammunition against us.

I really wish you would stop giving that title to all who disagree with your strict reformed doctrine. I am not Arminian. I am far more Calvinist than anything, but I don't adopt the name of a man to identify my theology. I believe the Bible. Period. I think you do, as well, but you don't understand it as I do, which means, more than likely, one of us is wrong. I believe it is you. That, however, makes me only in disagreement with you, not an "Arminian." In fact, Arminius believed much of the same things Calvin believed. There wasn't even that great a difference between them on the terms of election and predestination. So this whole "Calvin/Arminius" separation is a farce perpetuated by extremists on both sides.

 

[Luke2427]

1. I don't care what the King James says, I care about the meaning.
2. Millions of seminary trained people don't know what the Scriptures mean. We see that on this very board.
3. You don't know what education he had nor how he interpreted Scripture.
4. Nowhere from the story do we get he was trying to obey God.
5. Don't tell me who I can thank. Only an idiot would blindly read something and think it must apply to everyone in all situations.
6. Most people wouldn't handle a poisonous snake making your most people being idiots proven false right there.

1. Without somebody being educated giving you direction you might just as well be a KJO man. You lean on seminary trained people.
2. But if they attended a good seminary they'd know how to interpret it. They may miss the meaning but its not because they don't know basic hermeneutical laws.
3. Yes, I do know. I watched the show. He was very uneducated.
4. Yes. He said as much.
“To me,” Coots says in the video below, “it’s much a commandment of God, when he said ‘thou shalt take up serpents,’ as it was when He said, ‘thou shalt not commit adultery.’” - See more at: http://lauraturner.religionnews.com...s-death-dont-understand/#sthash.9Mq3qKCM.dpuf

5. I'll tell you whatever I WANT to tell you whenever I want to tell it to you. How about that? An idiot, by definition, is one who is not educated (whether formally or some other way). The world is full of hundreds of millions of idiots handling the Scripture JUST that way. If they all went to a good seminary, that would solve that dilemma.
6. Most people do stupid and dangerous things every year of their lives. Millions of people die every year doing stupid dangerous things from handling snakes to eating too many hot dogs.

People are largely idiots. Common sense is stupidity. You come into this world a moron and most people remain that way. The last thing Christians ought to want is to have common sense. They ought to seek UNCOMMON sense.

 

[Luke2427]

Why get educated, why listen to man's opinion? No I do not need to read any books for I will only read the Bible. I suggest you toss all your books, lexicons, greek Dictionaries away Luke and get to reading your Bible! Man's opinion shows up in all your books.

Aren't you the one who is always pumping some book you are reading?

 

[Luke2427]

That's true. The Spirit we have received is of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Still, one can be deceived. Coot's problem wasn't his lack of education.


I agree with this with one caveat, the Scriptures teach us to listen to preachers and teachers, which also means reading their books. But one would not need other books to avoid Coot's trap, because the Scriptures clearly teach us not to put God to the test.

That's an oversimplification of the issue. When Jim Elliot went to minister to a dangerous tribe he felt he was obeying God's command no less than Coots felt handling snakes was obeying God's command. Both took up a dangerous activity seeking to obey God. Was Jim Elliot disobeying God and putting God to the test?

No. Neither was Coots IF Coots was right about the command to handle snakes. His problem was not that he was tempting God (though he was). His problem was that he did not have a proper understanding of how to interpret scripture. No one ever taught him (read 'educate him').

That was what killed Coots. His lack of being taught properly.

That is very true. If I read Luke's posts, correctly, someone told him the text of Mark was corrupted and is somewhat dubious, and THAT is why he isn't snake-handling.

If you knew anything about seminary you'd know that professors never TELL you what to think. They tell you HOW to think properly. They tell you how to investigate.

It is probable that the last verses in Mark were not in the original. But that is not the MAIN reason one should not handle snakes according to those verses. There are numerous other hermeneutical rules that would have saved his life.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke I say this in kindness but you need to watch your pride brother. You are condemning others and not looking at yourself. You are turning people away from Reformed theology by your words and attitude. You love books then read this one.

Respectable Sins

You don't know what way I am turning people. The right people APPRECIATE the raw truth.

People, by and large, are morons. That's biblical. Common sense is stupidity. Common means the way the majority thinks and does things. Well, the majority gave this country Barack Obama as president. The majority of Germans gave the world Hitler.

Any Christian who wants to be led by common sense in a world where most people are idiots is, well, pretty common.

That's the problem.

Christians ought to be led by UNCOMMON sense.