What Sins Are Christians Capable Of?

[StraightAndNarrow]

Simple, but not Scriptural.
If I disobey my father, he is still my Father. I may tell a lie. But my Father does not disown my, and neither do I deny my Father by telling a lie. To say such is ridiculous, and neither does the Bible teach as much.

This is what the Bible says:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is breaking the law, not denying Christ. Stick with what the Bible says.
DHK

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Jhn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

If we don't keep His commandments, Jesus is saying that He will no longer love us. That's a pretty dire consequence. What do you think Christ's judgement will be for this person?

 

[Hope of Glory]

No, it's not. To say he is not Lord is to make a deliberate decision to believe that it is not true that Jesus is Lord.

To deny a proposition ("Jesus is Lord") involves belief and a choice. My belief that Jesus is Lord does not go away when I sin.

Peter denied even knowing him. Do you think he made a deliberate decision to believe that Jesus was not Lord?

 

[Hope of Glory]

I posted the scripture that clearly states that it is unbelievers who deny Jesus is Lord. No matter how much a Christian may sin, we are not in the same category as unbelievers.

I've looked back over 13 pages of posts and I didn't see it. I may be blind. would you mind reposting it?

This puts you in an interesting group, though. There are those who think that Matthew 7:22 is talking about unsaved people, but you obviously don't. (Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?)

 

[DHK]

If we don't keep His commandments, Jesus is saying that He will no longer love us. That's a pretty dire consequence. What do you think Christ's judgement will be for this person?

There is no verse in the entire Bible that teaches such a doctrine. I would go so far as to say that it would be one of those doctrines that that Bible calls a damnable heresy, for what you say pictures God as a God of hate and not of love.
One of the greatest attributes of God is love. God is love (1John 4:8)

1 John 4:9-10 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

No matter what you do, how much you sin, what kind of sin you do, God's love is everlasting. He will always love you. He is not a God of hate, but a God of love. His love is eternal. God is the same: yesterday, today and forever. His love never changes. It endures forever. He never stops loving, even if you disobey or sin. God is love; He demonstrated that great love for us by sending His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins, though we don't deserve His love.

Love divine, so great and wondrous,
Deep and mighty, pure, sublime!
Coming from the heart of Jesus,
Just the same through tests of time.


Refrain
He the pearly gates will open,
So that I may enter in;
For He purchased my redemption
And forgave me all my sin.

Love divine, so great and wondrous,
All my sins He then forgave!
I will sing His praise forever,
For His blood, His power to save.
Fredrick A. Blom, 1917;

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/t/htpearly.htm
DHK

 

[gekko]

say im living in the states. and the army comes to my front door. knocks. i answer it. we exchange our greetings and so on. then they say that i have to join the army. and i say to them "no!" and they're like "you have no other choice"

so i end up going. unwillfuly i join the army. i didnt make the choice to go into the army. i was unwillfully dragged into the army.

 

[James_Newman]

You chose to escape the consequences of not joining the army by compromising your conviction.

 

[gekko]

but i never chose to compromise my conviction. that was the result of it. it was inevitable.

 

[James_Newman]

What you chose was to love your life. There is always a choice, no one can make you compromise. But when the choice is compromise or die, few would be willing to make a stand.

1 Corinthians 10:13
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

John 12:25
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

 

[gekko]

What you chose was to love your life.

really? where do you get that from?

i never chose to go into the army. i was forced to because it was such a sudden encounter with the army officials.

 

[James_Newman]

I thought this was a hypothetical situation. You cannot be forced to do anything you don't want to do. You can be strongly persuaded, even upon pain of death, and you can say 'I was forced to do it' but there is always another option.

 

[DHK]

If we don't keep His commandments, Jesus is saying that He will no longer love us.

I don't understand your above responses in the light of Straight's quote. God's love is unconditonal. No matter who you are; no matter what you have done; God will always love you. There will never come a time when one can can say: "He no longer loves us."
DHK

 

[Marcia]

Peter denied even knowing him. Do you think he made a deliberate decision to believe that Jesus was not Lord?

I posted about Peter, too. You can't make a good analogy between Peter, who at that time was not indwelt by the HS, and believers today who are indwelt by the HS. Anyway, using narrative for theology is weak if you can't back it up by other scripture that teaches, especially in the NT.

 

[Marcia]

[Hope of Glory]I've looked back over 13 pages of posts and I didn't see it. I may be blind. would you mind reposting it?

It's on page 12, although I did forget to put the citation for it. It's Jude 4.

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

This puts you in an interesting group, though. There are those who think that Matthew 7:22 is talking about unsaved people, but you obviously don't. (Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?)

Why would you think that I think that Matt 7.22 is talking about saved people? I do think it's about unsaved people -- clearly people who think they are saved or act like it externally. They may even be able to perform signs, as the passage indicates.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

There is no verse in the entire Bible that teaches such a doctrine. I would go so far as to say that it would be one of those doctrines that that Bible calls a damnable heresy, for what you say pictures God as a God of hate and not of love.
One of the greatest attributes of God is love. God is love (1John 4:8)

1 John 4:9-10 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

No matter what you do, how much you sin, what kind of sin you do, God's love is everlasting. He will always love you. He is not a God of hate, but a God of love. His love is eternal. God is the same: yesterday, today and forever. His love never changes. It endures forever. He never stops loving, even if you disobey or sin. God is love; He demonstrated that great love for us by sending His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins, though we don't deserve His love.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/t/htpearly.htm
DHK

Jhn 15:5 - 10. I quoted it. Are you saying you don't accept this passage of scripture?

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

I don't understand your above responses in the light of Straight's quote. God's love is unconditonal. No matter who you are; no matter what you have done; God will always love you. There will never come a time when one can can say: "He no longer loves us."
DHK

Are you interpreting the scripture I posted or are you stating your personal belief?

 

[Marcia]

Are you interpreting the scripture I posted or are you stating your personal belief?

S & N, I know you're asking DHK about Jn. 15, but I don't see how this relates to the topic.

I'm starting another thread on it.

 

[DHK]

Jhn 15:5 - 10. I quoted it. Are you saying you don't accept this passage of scripture?

Your conclusion that 1John 15:5-10 means:
" If we don't keep His commandments, Jesus is saying that He will no longer love us."
is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture, and shows a shallow understanding of the doctrine of salvation.
Certainly I believe John 15, but not your interpretation of the passage.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Are you interpreting the scripture I posted or are you stating your personal belief?

Neither:
I state what the Bible said and quoted Scripture to back up what God said through his word. My opinion is of no value; but God's opinion is what does count. I gave you Scripture. That is the only opinion that counts. Believe what God says.
DHK

 

[gekko]

DHK said:
"He is not a God of hate, but a God of love."

i agree he is a God of love and that He is not a God of hate.

but he is a God of Wrath. its all throughout old and new testament scripture.

 

[ituttut]

itutut I think have made serious errors in your view of I Johh, but it looks like your mind is already made up, so we'll agree to disagree.

By the way those in the OT were not saved because of endurance they were saved by grace through faith just like everyone else.

I mean this to be in love of a fellow Christian, but I must be direct and give an honest account of my faith in my Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not faulting your faith or salvation, but as you say we can agreeably disagree.

In my agreement I'll agree with Hebrew 11 that all before were saved by faith. There is no way in this world they could come through the faith of Jesus Christ for they didn't know His name, and He had not yet shed His blood. Their blood sacrifices of animals (all the way back to Adam) were necessary to only cover their sins. They all are of works for this is what God required, and we are not. Those of Pentecost evidently still made blood sacrifice until the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in A. D. 70.

We can read I John in two ways. I also agree with your rendering, and your mind seems to be made up, but mine isn't.

I'm presently endeavoring to place John into salvation as we Gentiles are saved, for Peter says they can now be saved just as we (me) Gentiles. But I'll admit I could be wrong in these verses for John is going to have his own kingdom in the kingdom of Christ, and I am not. John's salvation was not the same as mine (Romans 3:20) for Jews in that day evidently could be saved on the foundation of Jesus Christ laid down by Peter, or by Paul. Paul tells us he will not build on the foundation laid down by Peter.

If I find contradiction in trying to place John into the Gentile mode of salvation, then I'll know that the handshake he made with Paul (along with James and Peter) was still binding after the death of Paul. John said he would not give message to the uncircumcised.

In your unequivocal stance on verse 9 you have him remaining in having to endure until the end, and you will also for you must continue to confess for the rest of your life, and hope you don't miss a sin to confess to. At least that is what I understand you to be saying.

I'll appreciate any input you may have either way, in any delivery you see fit.