What Sins Are Christians Capable Of?

[standingfirminChrist]

Every believer is part of the Bride. The Bible teaches us that the believer is 'In Christ'. That we are many members, yet one body.

Christ is coming back for His Bride. Not for His Bride and others besides.

Ye do err, not knowing the scripture.

 

[J. Jump]

Ye do err, not knowing the scripture.

Really you don't show any Scripture to back up your stance. So I guess I'm just supposed to believe you because SFIC says so?

You can see the Truth that not all believers will be a part of the bride of Christ in several different areas. You can see this in the type of Adam/Eve - Christ/bride. You can also see this in the type of the story of Isaac and Rebekah.

You can also see this in several NT parables including the parable, of the talents, pounds, virgins and wedding feast.

You can see this Truth in Revelation 3.

So I don't know how your statement could be true.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

There are 77 verses in the KJV which show the Believer's position in Christ using the phrase 'in Christ.'

KJV Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

My Savior is not coming back whole and returning to His Father as an amputee victim.

We are one Body in which Christ is the Head. We are many members, joined to the one Body in which every joint supplieth.

We, the Body, are the Bride of Christ. Those who are not of Christ are not in Christ. They will be left behind.

 

[J. Jump]

The whole body of Christ will be taken back to heaven, but the whole body will not become part of the bride. You comparing apples and oranges. You started talking about the bride then you start talking about the rapture.

Christ will come back and He will take the entire body as you say, but that doesn't prove the point that every member of the body becomes the bride.

If what you say is true that destroys several OT types including Adam and Eve.

Eve which typifies the bride of Christ came out of the body of Adam, who is a type of Christ. Now was Eve all the body of Adam or was she a part of Adam's body?

She was a part of Adam's body. So will the bride that comes out of the body of Christ be the entire body of Christ or a part of the body of Christ? She will be a part of the body of Christ.

She will be the part of the body that is obedient to His commandments, who dies to self, who walks in the Spirit, who does not become a slave to sin, who finishes the race, who crucifies the flesh, who overcomes the world, who overcomes the flesh, who overcomes Satan, who is said to be a good and faithful servant, etc., etc., etc.

Unfortunately not all Christians do what it is necessary to array themselves in white raiment, becuase they don't have any righteous acts.

 

[Marcia]

JJump, you are super- allegorizing! Where do you get that Eve represents the bride of Christ? Just because Adam was a type of Christ? That does not make Eve representative of the church.

I don't see a biblical basis for dividing up the body of Christ like that. The body of Christ is one in Christ - Jesus is not going to tear it apart!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, Marcia!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The whole body of Christ will be taken back to heaven, but the whole body will not become part of the bride. You comparing apples and oranges. You started talking about the bride then you start talking about the rapture.

Christ will come back and He will take the entire body as you say, but that doesn't prove the point that every member of the body becomes the bride.

If what you say is true that destroys several OT types including Adam and Eve.

Eve which typifies the bride of Christ came out of the body of Adam, who is a type of Christ. Now was Eve all the body of Adam or was she a part of Adam's body?

She was a part of Adam's body. So will the bride that comes out of the body of Christ be the entire body of Christ or a part of the body of Christ? She will be a part of the body of Christ.

She will be the part of the body that is obedient to His commandments, who dies to self, who walks in the Spirit, who does not become a slave to sin, who finishes the race, who crucifies the flesh, who overcomes the world, who overcomes the flesh, who overcomes Satan, who is said to be a good and faithful servant, etc., etc., etc.

Unfortunately not all Christians do what it is necessary to array themselves in white raiment, becuase they don't have any righteous acts.

You are forgetting something, JJump. Christ tells those who are not faithful servants to depart from Him, for they are workers of iniquity. They are not a part of His kingdom.

 

[J. Jump]

JJump, you are super- allegorizing!

No as a matter of fact I am just reading the OT how it was written which was in a typical fashion.

Do you think that it is just freakly ironic that this makes sense not only in the story of Adam and Eve, but if you go to the story of Isaac and Rebekah you can see the same thing.

Abraham (God) sent His servant (Holy Spirit) back to His family (Christians) to procure a bride for his son Isaac (Christ). So the servant goes back to the family and finds Rebekah. Not all of the family became Isaac's bride, just part of the family.

Again do you think these are just freak coincidences? Especially since it goes hand-in-hand with what the NT teaches that those that are overcomers are the ones that will array themselves in the white raiment which is the proper wedding garment. A garment that is made up of the righteous acts of the saints.

Do you think it odd that Scripture lines up with Scripture throughout the Bible? I don't. I think it speaks to the almost unfathomable awesomeness that is our God that He could guide men through the Holy Spirit to pen things thousands of years prior to others and yet there is absolutely no contradiction at all.

Again it is not allegorizing, but seeing the type and antitype. Eve was already in Adam when he was created by God. Eve was already a part of his body. Adam said that they are one. So how can you separate them and say Adam doesn't have anything to do with Eve in regard to Christ.

If we would just get ourselves and our traditional teachings out of the way and just let the Bible be the Bible again things would be so much better!

I don't see a biblical basis for dividing up the body of Christ like that.

Pray that God would open your spiritual eyes and ears and take yourself and the teachings that you have grown up with and move aside and He will so you great and mighty things which you know not.

Again just because we don't see something doesn't mean it isn't true, but honestly I can't see how you don't see it.

The body of Christ is one in Christ

You are absolutely right. The body is one. However not all of the body made up Eve, and not all of the body will make up Christ's wife either.

One thing that I don't understand is why in the world do you think God would allow unfaithful Christians to marry His Son. Why do you think Christ would want to marry an unfaithful wife?

Would you want to marry someone that you knew he had spent an entire lifetime messing around? That doesn't make a lot of sense in our finite world, so why do we insist that Christ be married to unfaithful Christians in the spiritual sense?

 

[J. Jump]

You are forgetting something, JJump. Christ tells those who are not faithful servants to depart from Him, for they are workers of iniquity. They are not a part of His kingdom.

SFIC you proved my point for me. Thank you!

Unfaithful servants will have to depart from Him and if they are not part of His kingdom they can not be part of the bride.

That's exactly the point that I was making.

 

[Hope of Glory]

One thing that I don't understand is why in the world do you think God would allow unfaithful Christians to marry His Son. Why do you think Christ would want to marry an unfaithful wife?

Jehovah divorced his "wife" for being unfaithful. (Deuteronomy 24:1-4) But, even though divorced, he invites her to return to him in Jeremiah 3:1.

Israel is the Bride of Jehovah, we are the Bride of Christ.

Why are we given these types and pictures.

1 Corinthians 10:11: Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Many know the OT for just a few favorite chapters. Others think of it only as giving a few biographical sketches. But few realize that for every New Testament doctrine, there is a type in the Old Testament. Historical events took place as recorded in the OT in order to illustrate, typify, or symbolize NT truths.

The OT contains the object lesson, and the NT contains the explanation of that object lesson. Proverbs 25:2 says, “It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.” The OT is God's picture book; His object lessons; His building blocks. In the NT these blocks are put together and they always spell out or point to some phase of the person or work of the Lord Jesus Christ and our relation to Him. The coats of skin with which God covered Adam and Eve; the sacrifices of Cain and Abel; the names of the Old Testament characters; Noah's Ark; Egypt; Pharaoh; the ten plagues; the Passover; the Red Sea; the wilderness; the manna; the Jordan River; the land of promise, etc. — All of these are types and are written for our admonition.

Our Lord reproved the disciples on the road to Emmaus as “fools and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets had spoken.” The prophets spoke in type, symbol, materials, colors, animals, buildings, persons, events, and in divers manners concerning Christ. Just think for one minute — everything in the Tabernacle: the shape, materials, colors — all that was in the Tabernacle portrays something about Christ and His ministry and work.

In the Book of Hebrews 5:10, 11, the Spirit of the Lord rebukes Christians very sharply for their imperfect knowledge of Melchizedek as a type of Christ in His coming Kingdom, when He shall be the Prince of peace and King of kings; thus beyond any shadow of doubt, it is the duty and privilege of Christians, with the help of the Holy Spirit of God, to search into the types of the Scripture and come to a correct understanding of them. In fact, the types of Scripture — especially those relating to Christ's return, rule, judgment, kingdom, and the part Christians may have in this kingdom, and kindred subjects — are called by the Spirit of the Lord, the meat of the Word. Christians are urged to leave the milk of the Word, the elementary things pertaining to salvation, and to go on to maturity by feeding on the meat, that is, the types of the Word of Righteousness — the OT.

Though the word “type” does not occur in the KJV, it does occur in the Greek text. In 1 Corinthians 10:6-11, we have the word tupoi from the word tupos, from which comes our English word type. In Hebrews 9:24 and 1 Peter 3:21, we have the words antitupa and antitupon from which comes our word antitype. A type is a divine illustration of some truth or doctrine, which is foreshadowed. For instance, the Passover lamb and its characteristics (blood — shedding, application of the blood on the doorposts and lintel, which brought deliverance to the firstborn of Israel) all these are types of the Lord Jesus Christ. Again, Egypt is a type of the world from which we are delivered. The wilderness is a type of our pilgrimage from the time of salvation until we enter the Land Flowing With Milk and Honey. Canaan is a type of the Millennial land and the reign of Christ and His saints who qualify to reign with Him.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

How many judgements do you believe will take place? Why and where are they described in the Bible?

I believe that there will be only one and that same judgement is described in MA 25 and REV 20.


Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Notice that ALL of these verses talk about THE JUDGEMENT DAY. If that is true (and I accept God's word as true) how is it determined who will enter the millenial kingdom?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Well, for starters, there's the Judgment Seat of Christ for saved people and the Great White Throne judgment for the unsaved.

 

[J. Jump]

StraightandNarrow there will be as HoG has said a judgment seat of Christ and the Great White throne judgment. The Bible never depicts saved and unsaved together in the same judgment.

The judgment seat of Christ is the one that present day Christians need to concern themselves. This is where it will be determined whether one has been an overcomer or whether he was overcome.

This is where determinations will be made regarding the bride of Christ and the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

Hope that helps.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

StraightandNarrow there will be as HoG has said a judgment seat of Christ and the Great White throne judgment. The Bible never depicts saved and unsaved together in the same judgment.

The judgment seat of Christ is the one that present day Christians need to concern themselves. This is where it will be determined whether one has been an overcomer or whether he was overcome.

This is where determinations will be made regarding the bride of Christ and the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

Hope that helps.

You claim that there isn't a judgement described in the Bi9ble that includes both the saved and the unsaved and that the MA25 judgement is to separate out those Christians who will live in the millenial kingdom. The others will go where? Here's what the Bible says about that.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


This group is NOT saved and will be sent into "everlasting punishment." That certainly sounds like Hell to me.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, Straight and Narrow!

Nowhere in scripture can one find such a doctrine that there will be others saved beside the bride of Christ. As a matter of fact, in Matthew 25, the five foolish virgins found out that they were not Christ's. They kept themselves pure by their own works, and did not rely on the Holy Spirit to be that which lighted their lives. Nor did they make their robes white by the blood of the Lamb. When Christ came and found His true servant 'so doing' that which He commanded, He received them unto Himself. But the door was closed to the foolish virgins. And what Christ shuts, no man opens.

 

[J. Jump]

This group is NOT saved and will be sent into "everlasting punishment." That certainly sounds like Hell to me.

This group IS saved, because works are in view. Eternal salvation does not come by works. When works are judged eternal salvation will not be in view. Eternal salvation is determined prior to any judgment seat appearance before Christ.

Do a study on the word aionios which is the Greek word translated everlasting or eternal. It is a Greek adjective that describes the Greek noun aion which means age. This word should be translated age-lasting unless it is specifically dealing with Deity, which we know has no beginning nor end.

Christians over the last I don't know how many years have gotten away from the idea that we will be given our due, whether good or bad at the judgment seat of Christ. The 21st century Christian views "reward" as something that is only positive, and the only negative thing a Christian can face is a loss of a positive reward.

However that is far from the Biblical concept. We will get exactly what we are due according to the works we have performed during this lifetime whether good or bad.

 

[J. Jump]

Nowhere in scripture can one find such a doctrine that there will be others saved beside the bride of Christ.

Sure you can. I just gave you several places in an above post that you still have not dealt with.

As a matter of fact, in Matthew 25, the five foolish virgins found out that they were not Christ's. They kept themselves pure by their own works, and did not rely on the Holy Spirit to be that which lighted their lives. Nor did they make their robes white by the blood of the Lamb. When Christ came and found His true servant 'so doing' that which He commanded, He received them unto Himself. But the door was closed to the foolish virgins. And what Christ shuts, no man opens.

Let's just see what Scripture has to say about the parable of the virgins instead of what SFIC says.

"Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Right off the bat we see that eternal salvation is not even in the picture of this parable, because it says that the kingdom of heaven (actually should be translated the kingdom of the heavens) is in view. Eternal salvation and the kingdom of the heavens are two totally different messages.

For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,

Here's another key verse. It says the virgins took no oil with them. It doesn't say the five foolish didn't have oil. They had oil they just didn't take it with them.

So they had the Holy Spirit, because they were saved, they just didn't care to walk by the Spirit. But walking by the Spirit and being eternally saved are two different messages, becuase eternal salvation doesn't come by works.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

JJump,

Once again, you are delivering a different message than what the Bible gives. The five foolish virgins did not have any oil. They did not have the Holy Spirit. If they had oil, they would not have had to go and buy oil as the scripture proclaimed.

They took no oil because they had no oil to begin with.

Matthew 25:10 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

 

[Marcia]

Do you think that it is just freakly ironic that this makes sense not only in the story of Adam and Eve, but if you go to the story of Isaac and Rebekah you can see the same thing.

Abraham (God) sent His servant (Holy Spirit) back to His family (Christians) to procure a bride for his son Isaac (Christ). So the servant goes back to the family and finds Rebekah. Not all of the family became Isaac's bride, just part of the family.

Again do you think these are just freak coincidences? Especially since it goes hand-in-hand with what the NT teaches that those that are overcomers are the ones that will array themselves in the white raiment which is the proper wedding garment. A garment that is made up of the righteous acts of the saints.

<snip> Again it is not allegorizing, but seeing the type and antitype. Eve was already in Adam when he was created by God. Eve was already a part of his body. Adam said that they are one. So how can you separate them and say Adam doesn't have anything to do with Eve in regard to Christ.

Your take on Rebekah and the servant is allegorization not supported in scripture. It's just how you read your theory into it.

You are equating the physical body of Adam with the church and there is no scriptural support for this. Nor is there any for equating Eve with the church. This is eisegesis, not exegesis. We only call something a type or antitype when the Bible makes it clear. It is clear that Adam was an antitype because the Bible calls Jesus the second Adam. But the Bible does not give Even as an antitype or type of the church, nor the physical body of Adam to be equated with the body of Christ.

Pray that God would open your spiritual eyes and ears and take yourself and the teachings that you have grown up with and move aside and He will so you great and mighty things which you know not.

I didn't grow up knowing any of this. Why assume I did?

One thing that I don't understand is why in the world do you think God would allow unfaithful Christians to marry His Son. Why do you think Christ would want to marry an unfaithful wife?

Would you want to marry someone that you knew he had spent an entire lifetime messing around? That doesn't make a lot of sense in our finite world, so why do we insist that Christ be married to unfaithful Christians in the spiritual sense

Who is faithful, JJump? All of us fail in being faithful, which is maybe why Jesus asked if he would find faith on earth when he came back. We are transformed into the image of Christ by the HS; we are made pure and fit by the blood of Christ and by the HS.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

JJump,

Once again, you are delivering a different message than what the Bible gives. The five foolish virgins did not have any oil. They did not have the Holy Spirit. If they had oil, they would not have had to go and buy oil as the scripture proclaimed.

They took no oil because they had no oil to begin with.

Matthew 25:10 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

The oil is representative of the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit does not come and go, since it does not 'visit us' as it did in Old Testament times, but takes up residence until at what time we are called to Glory; the five foolish were not saved.

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight; Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.