What the Great Tribulation of the Second Coming Will Be Like

[HankD]

I already know the Torah. And as I explained, there are not just 613 commands. Not all commands in the Torah come in the form of "you shall not...". For example, the passage of Onan reveals that contraception and masturbation is a sin, in the form of a story. This alone proves that there are not exactly 613 commands in the Torah. This is a rabbinical myth.

That is your interpretation of the phrase to "spill seed".

The 613 are direct and obvious. OK granted there may be more by way of interpretation but still to break one - you break them all.

It is impossible to keep every one even of the puny 613 direct commandments.

In AD70 biblical Judaism came to an end with the destruction of the Temple and the slaughter of the Levitical priesthood.

Talmudic Judaism is NOT the real thing.

 

[piziqof]

That is your interpretation of the phrase to "spill seed".

The 613 are direct and obvious. OK granted there may be more by way of interpretation but still to break one - you break them all.

It is impossible to keep every one even of the puny 613 direct commandments.

In AD70 biblical Judaism came to an end with the destruction of the Temple and the slaughter of the Levitical priesthood.

Talmudic Judaism is NOT the real thing.

It is not impossible to keep every command of the Torah, there were men before that were called perfect in accordance to Torah, like Noah, even David, and even Paul himself said he was perfect. People who say "no one can keep the Torah" are themselves lawless people that don't want to obey Torah, so they deliberately believe a lie that no one can keep it, when there have been men that could. And that was before the Messiah shed his blood, for now there is an even greater righteousness that exists through the blood of the Messiah that frees us from sin, and causes us to obey the Torah more perfectly, should we truly receive the airflow of God of course. You're in error concerning the Torah. The Torah is not abolished, and if you continue breaking it you will indeed die in your sins.

 

[robycop3]

One thing to consider is the great tribulation being long past. Jesus told the apostles to leave Jerusalem saying "when you see the abomination of desolation". "You see" is second person plural, meaning it applied to them and not us.

But THEY didn't see it. The AOD will be when the "beast" enters the new temple the Jews will build in jerusalem, setting up his statue in it, & declaring himself to be God, above anything or anyone else ever worshipped.

 

[1689Dave]

But THEY didn't see it. The AOD will be when the "beast" enters the new temple the Jews will build in jerusalem, setting up his statue in it, & declaring himself to be God, above anything or anyone else ever worshipped.

Think about this. The AoD was the continued (standing) sacrificing animals in the Temple after Christ paid for our sins on the cross.....

 

[robycop3]

The "great tribulation" of the second coming of the Messiah is not long past, but the tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem is indeed long past, for those are two distinct tribulations, for after the Messiah was killed, then came the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, which was a tribulation of its own, where was carried out by the Romans, in fulfillment of prophecy.

Actually, the destruction of J & the temple was part of the "days of vengeance" against the Jews prophesied by Jesus for all the murders of saints up til that time. the beginning of their punishment for killing Jesus started with their dispersion by Hadrian in 135-136 AD & lasted thru the nazi holocaust.

 

[robycop3]

Think about this. The AoD was the continued (standing) sacrificing animals in the Temple after Christ paid for our sins on the cross.....

Scripture plainly tells us the AOD will be committed by the "beast".

 

[piziqof]

But THEY didn't see it. The AOD will be when the "beast" enters the new temple the Jews will build in jerusalem, setting up his statue in it, & declaring himself to be God, above anything or anyone else ever worshipped.

The abomination of the desolation already happened, for before the desolation of Jerusalem, the set-apart place was profaned, in accordance to certain historical writings, like the writings of Josephus, that describe Titus being worshiped by his soldiers at the set-apart place, which was in Mount Moriah where the temple was, which is why Yeshuah said, when you see the "abomination of desolation" in the set-apart place, then let those in Judea flee, because the desolation of Jerusalem is at hand,

“So when you see standing in the set-apart place ‘the abomination of the desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand– then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. (Matthew 24:15-20)

“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24)

And it was through the authority of the Roman emperors, such as Titus, who later became emperor of Rome, that the man of lawlessness came, the Roman popes, which fulfilled other prophecies. As I said, you have very little understanding of prophecy as it relates to actual history. You believe in a fantasy concerning the antichrist, when in fact, he already came, and has been alive for quite a long time. You have misidentified the antichrist, because you have been deceived by him!

 

[robycop3]

In accordance to the Torah, not performing the Levirate duty did not bring a penalty of death as Onan received. It was because Onan spilled his seed that he was killed. Had he not had sex with his sister-in-law and spilled his seed, he would not have died, per what the Torah declares concerning the Levirate duty,

However, if a man does not want to marry his brother’s wife, she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, “My husband’s brother refuses to carry on his brother’s name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to me.” Then the elders of his town shall summon him and talk to him. If he persists in saying, “I do not want to marry her,” his brother’s widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one of his sandals, spit in his face and say, “This is what is done to the man who will not build up his brother’s family line.” That man’s line shall be known in Israel as The Family of the Unsandaled. (Deuteronomy 25:7-10)

It is you who has an atrocious understanding of the Torah. That is why everything I am saying is a complete and utter shock and surprise to you. Because you are a person with little to no understanding of the Torah. You're lawless.

Judah commanded Onan according to inspiration from GOD. God was displeased cuz Onan refused to obey his father.

 

[robycop3]

The abomination of the desolation already happened, for before the desolation of Jerusalem, the set-apart place was profaned, in accordance to certain historical writings, like the writings of Josephus, that describe Titus being worshiped by his soldiers at the set-apart place, which is why Yeshuah said, when you see the "abomination of desolation", then let those in Judea flee, because the desolation of Jerusalem is at hand,

“So when you see standing in the set-apart place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand– then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. (Matthew 24:15-20)

“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24)

And it was through the authority of the Roman emperors, such as Titus, who later became emperor of Rome, that the man of lawlessness came, the Roman popes, which fulfilled other prophecies. As I said, you have very little understanding of prophecy as it relates to actual history. You believe in a fantasy concerning the antichrist, when in fact, he already came.

That "popes = the beast" stuff is complete nonsense. Daniel, Paul, and Jesus in the Revelation said he will be ONE MAN.

 

[piziqof]

Actually, the destruction of J & the temple was part of the "days of vengeance" against the Jews prophesied by Jesus for all the murders of saints up til that time. the beginning of their punishment for killing Jesus started with their dispersion by Hadrian in 135-136 AD & lasted thru the nazi holocaust.

Which was a time of tribulation. Many people were killed and Jerusalem was entirely destroyed. Do you not understand what the word tribulation means? Look it up in the dictionary.

 

[piziqof]

Judah commanded Onan according to inspiration from GOD. God was displeased cuz Onan refused to obey his father.

Because he spilled his seed.

 

[robycop3]

It is not impossible to keep every command of the Torah, there were men before that were called perfect in accordance to Torah, like Noah, even David, and even Paul himself said he was perfect. People who say "no one can keep the Torah" are themselves lawless people that don't want to obey Torah, so they deliberately believe a lie that no one can keep it, when there have been men that could. And that was before the Messiah shed his blood, for now there is an even greater righteousness that exists through the blood of the Messiah that frees us from sin, and causes us to obey the Torah more perfectly, should we truly receive the airflow of God of course. You're in error concerning the Torah. The Torah is not abolished, and if you continue breaking it you will indeed die in your sins.

David, etc. were called "perfect" only because GOD FORGAVE THEIR SINS. Plainly, David sinned several times. Only JESUS never violated the least law of the Torah when He lived as a man..

 

[piziqof]

That "popes = the beast" stuff is complete nonsense. Daniel, Paul, and Jesus in the Revelation said he will be ONE MAN.

Is the pope not one man? Are there two popes, or three popes, sitting in authority right now? Did I miss something?

 

[piziqof]

David, etc. were called "perfect" only because GOD FORGAVE THEIR SINS. Plainly, David sinned several times. Only JESUS never violated the least law of the Torah when He lived as a man..

David was perfect because he OBEYED Torah, not because he was forgiven. Forgiveness has nothing to do with actual obedience. If you disobey, then you need to be forgiven. But if you obey, then there is nothing to forgive. In all matters, there were only two or three sins that David committed EVER, which implies, other than those two or three instances of sins, he was PERFECT. Understand that the level of righteousness these men had was not YOUR level of righteousness, where men like you live completely lawless lives every day, which is why you say, "it is impossible to obey Torah". Well of course it is for a lawless man to obey Torah!

 

[1689Dave]

Scripture plainly tells us the AOD will be committed by the "beast".

Antiochus Epiphanies committed the AoD in 167 bc when he sacrificed a pig on the alter in the Temple. Jesus said to look for this happening again which it did. After he put an end to the sacrifice by the sacrifice of himself. And they continued sacrificing animals instead.

 

[robycop3]

Which was a time of tribulation. Many people were killed and Jerusalem was entirely destroyed. Do you not understand what the word tribulation means? Look it up in the dictionary.

That certainly was not the GREAT trib. The American Civil war, and the two World wars were much worst.

OF COURSE it was a time of tribulation! Any "days of vengeance' against a people are, as is the destruction of any city. But again, THAT tribulation was part of the "days of vengeance" from God against the Jews.

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

So, Jesus covers the rebuilding of J in the same speech. And, to this day, it's still trampled underfoot by gentiles, while being a "burdensome stone" to the world. And Jesus also covered the subsequent dispersal of the Jews in that same speech.

 

[robycop3]

David was perfect because he OBEYED Torah, not because he was forgiven. Forgiveness has nothing to do with actual obedience. If you disobey, then you need to be forgiven. But if you obey, then there is nothing to forgive. In all matters, there were only two or three sins that David committed EVER, which implies, other than those two or three instances of sins, he was PERFECT. Understand that the level of righteousness these men had was not YOUR level of righteousness, where men like you live completely lawless lives every day, which is why you say, "it is impossible to obey Torah". Well of course it is for a lawless man to obey Torah!

Oh, how SILLY!

OF COURSE David disobeyed the Torah several times! So, murder & adultery aren't against the Torah?

While under modern law, Joab mighta been charged with complicity in uriah's killing, GOD charged DAVE with his MURDER, & punished HIM for it! (That event is the foundation for the "murder for hire' cases of today, such as that of football player Rae Carruth.)

But God forgave dave for it, as Dave readily admitted his sin & his HEART was still focused upon God. BUT DAVID CERTAINLY DISOBEYED THE TORAH ! !

 

[robycop3]

Antiochus Epiphanies committed the AoD in 167 bc when he sacrificed a pig on the alter in the Temple. Jesus said to look for this happening again which it did. After he put an end to the sacrifice by the sacrifice of himself. And they continued sacrificing animals instead.

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Daniel 9:[/color=red]27" He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.' In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."[/color]

The following verses refer to the "king of the north". as seen in the context of Ch. 11:

Daniel 11:“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11:9color=red]"Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation."

So, while Antiochus Epiphanes committed an abomination, it was NOT the AOD spoken of by daniel, which was still future when Jesus spoke of it & is still future now.

Daniel 11 gives some of the histories of the Seleucid & Ptolemaic divisions of Alexander the great's empire after Alex's death, up til they came under Rome. Then, it skips ahead to the empire of the "beast".

Even now, the Jews in Israel are breeding animals to be used in temple rites, such as red heifers. They plan to re-institute animal sacrifices once they build a new temple. There are a number of sources which confirm this.

The AOD will be both the beast's statue of himself, which the false prophet will supernaturally make speak, & the beast's declaring himself to be God.

 

[robycop3]

It is not impossible to keep every command of the Torah, there were men before that were called perfect in accordance to Torah, like Noah, even David, and even Paul himself said he was perfect. People who say "no one can keep the Torah" are themselves lawless people that don't want to obey Torah, so they deliberately believe a lie that no one can keep it, when there have been men that could. And that was before the Messiah shed his blood, for now there is an even greater righteousness that exists through the blood of the Messiah that frees us from sin, and causes us to obey the Torah more perfectly, should we truly receive the airflow of God of course. You're in error concerning the Torah. The Torah is not abolished, and if you continue breaking it you will indeed die in your sins.

Again, david PLAINLY disobeyed the Torah several times as noted in Scripture, but he was considered perfect because GOD FORGAVE HIM.

 

[piziqof]

That certainly was not the GREAT trib. The American Civil war, and the two World wars were much worst.

OF COURSE it was a time of tribulation! Any "days of vengeance' against a people are, as is the destruction of any city. But again, THAT tribulation was part of the "days of vengeance" from God against the Jews.

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

So, Jesus covers the rebuilding of J in the same speech. And, to this day, it's still trampled underfoot by gentiles, while being a "burdensome stone" to the world. And Jesus also covered the subsequent dispersal of the Jews in that same speech.

I didn't say it was the "great tribulation", I said it was a tribulation. Two distinct tribulations. The second coming of the Messiah is the GREAT tribulation.