What the Great Tribulation of the Second Coming Will Be Like

[piziqof]

Oh, how SILLY!

OF COURSE David disobeyed the Torah several times! So, murder & adultery aren't against the Torah?

While under modern law, Joab mighta been charged with complicity in uriah's killing, GOD charged DAVE with his MURDER, & punished HIM for it! (That event is the foundation for the "murder for hire' cases of today, such as that of football player Rae Carruth.)

But God forgave dave for it, as Dave readily admitted his sin & his HEART was still focused upon God. BUT DAVID CERTAINLY DISOBEYED THE TORAH ! !

Like I said, two or three times. One was sending the husband of Bathseba to his death. The other was the census. Other than that, David was PERFECT. I wonder what can be said of you, on the other hand, gathering from your statement that no man can obey Torah, do you break the Torah daily? Hmmmmm. Well if you reject the understanding that using the banking system is sin, then it could be said you break the Torah every day with just that one thing.

 

[piziqof]

Again, david PLAINLY disobeyed the Torah several times as noted in Scripture, but he was considered perfect because GOD FORGAVE HIM.

Two or three times. EVER. Thats it. His righteousness is not your lawlessness. He sinned two or three times ever in his life. You, however, are lawless and break the Torah every day. You cannot compare your lawlessness to the righteousness of David.

 

[robycop3]

I didn't say it was the "great tribulation", I said it was a tribulation. Two distinct tribulations. The second coming of the Messiah is the GREAT tribulation.

But JESUS didn't call it a trib. And yes, I agree it was a trib.

 

[piziqof]

But JESUS didn't call it a trib. And yes, I agree it was a trib.

He doesn't need to call it "tribulation", it was a tribulation. The tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem is not the same as the GREAT tribulation of the destruction the Messiah will cause at his return. Do you not understand that the Messiah will come with plagues? Do you not understand that at the final plague EVERY city on earth will collapse? Just that one plague alone outdoes any tribulation that has ever happened on earth. UNDERSTAND. You people are so hung on on symantics because of your own lack of understanding on whats going to happen. I've laid it out for you, in order, whats going to happen, in plain terms, in relation to the Torah autumn festivals, in the study, yet the dullness of your own hearts prevents you from understanding.

 

[robycop3]

Two or three times. EVER. Thats it. His righteousness is not your lawlessness. He sinned two or three times ever in his life. You, however, are lawless and break the Torah every day. You cannot compare your lawlessness to the righteousness of David.

Your stuff is just plain goofy. Your "banking system = marka the beast" is nonsense. Your "popes = the beast" tripe is nonsense.

You're just full of apostasy, which was brought on by your trying to combine some elements of Judaism with some elements of Christianity, which are incompatible.

The ONLY reason I respond to your horse feathers at all is so some vulnerable person won't believe some of it.

 

[1689Dave]

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Daniel 9:[/color=red]27" He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.' In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."[/color]

The following verses refer to the "king of the north". as seen in the context of Ch. 11:

Daniel 11:“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11:9color=red]"Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation."

So, while Antiochus Epiphanes committed an abomination, it was NOT the AOD spoken of by daniel, which was still future when Jesus spoke of it & is still future now.

Daniel 11 gives some of the histories of the Seleucid & Ptolemaic divisions of Alexander the great's empire after Alex's death, up til they came under Rome. Then, it skips ahead to the empire of the "beast".

Even now, the Jews in Israel are breeding animals to be used in temple rites, such as red heifers. They plan to re-institute animal sacrifices once they build a new temple. There are a number of sources which confirm this.

The AOD will be both the beast's statue of himself, which the false prophet will supernaturally make speak, & the beast's declaring himself to be God.

You are turning Jesus into Antichrist in Daniel 9:27. Jesus caused the sacrifice to end by the sacrifice of himself.

 

[robycop3]

He doesn't need to call it "tribulation", it was a tribulation. The tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem is not the same as the GREAT tribulation of the destruction the Messiah will cause at his return. Do you not understand that the Messiah will come with plagues? Do you not understand that at the final plague EVERY city on earth will collapse? Just that one plague alone outdoes any tribulation that has ever happened on earth. UNDERSTAND. You people are so hung on on symantics because of your own lack of understanding on whats going to happen. I've laid it out for you, in order, whats going to happen, in plain terms, in relation to the Torah autumn festivals, in the study, yet the dullness of your own hearts prevents you from understanding.

No, you've laid out mostly nonsense.

No, the plagues will occur BEFORE Jesus returns. He will stop them just before He returns. Try reading His words, "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS..."

 

[piziqof]

Your stuff is just plain goofy. Your "banking system = marka the beast" is nonsense. Your "popes = the beast" tripe is nonsense.

You're just full of apostasy, which was brought on by your trying to combine some elements of Judaism with some elements of Christianity, which are incompatible.

The ONLY reason I respond to your horse feathers at all is so some vulnerable person won't believe some of it.

What you're actually doing is this:

1. Causing people to continue using the banking system, which is not only CONTRARY TO THE TORAH, BUT IS ALSO THE FULFILLMENT OF THE MARK OF THE BEAST. Even the prophets of old called the charging of interest an abomination. You're ignorant to the commands of God, and stubborn, which prevents you from discerning the evil that exists in the banking system, to your very own demise.
2. You're causing people to not identify the true antichrist, which is the Roman pope, who came within the context of the fourth kingdom of Daniel, WHICH WAS ROME.

You are deceived, and your very own stubbornness prevents you from reaching the truth, to your own demise. Soon enough you will see I was right, because the second coming of the Messiah is about to happen. Then it will be obvious that none of the things you fantasized about actually happened, because they were already here, and you refused to believe and understand when you had the opportunity to.

 

[piziqof]

No, you've laid out mostly nonsense.

No, the plagues will occur BEFORE Jesus returns. He will stop them just before He returns. Try reading His words, "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS..."

No! The Messiah comes at the trumpet blasts, which happens in New Moon Seven Day 1, which are the seven trumpets of Revelation, then the bowls of wrath of Revelation happen in the Feast of Tabernacles on New Moon Seven Day 15. Everything happens within a period of 3 weeks shortly after the second coming of the Messiah. This is what the Torah reveals. You are in serious error and know nothing. How much longer before you come to understanding? Perhaps never.

 

[robycop3]

No! The Messiah comes at the trumpet blasts, which happens in New Moon Seven Day 1, which are the seven trumpets of Revelation, then the bowls of wrath of Revelation happen in the Feast of Tabernacles on New Moon Seven Day 15. Everything happens within a period of 3 weeks shortly after the second coming of the Messiah. This is what the Torah reveals. You are in serious error and know nothing. How much longer before you come to understanding? Perhaps never.

Obviously, you need professional help. You're completely overboard.

 

[HankD]

It is not impossible to keep every command of the Torah, there were men before that were called perfect in accordance to Torah, like Noah, even David, and even Paul himself said he was perfect. People who say "no one can keep the Torah" are themselves lawless people that don't want to obey Torah, so they deliberately believe a lie that no one can keep it, when there have been men that could. And that was before the Messiah shed his blood, for now there is an even greater righteousness that exists through the blood of the Messiah that frees us from sin, and causes us to obey the Torah more perfectly, should we truly receive the airflow of God of course. You're in error concerning the Torah. The Torah is not abolished, and if you continue breaking it you will indeed die in your sins.

Assuming you are a male circumcised according to the Torah you must make a Temple tax payment to the priesthood in Jerusalem:

Exodus 30
13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs, an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.
14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls

This Jesus did, have you?

Matthew 17
24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


Well?

 

[David Kent]

Yes. A close study of Scripture reveals that the ACTUAL sequence of events will be:

1.) The coming to power of the beast/antichrist & his empire.

2.) Either the rapture or the Jews' building a new temple in Jerusalem will come next.

3.) the beast will commit the "abomination of desolation" in the new temple & the marka the beast will be issued.

4.) God will send strone delusion upon all who take the marka the beast so they won't believe in Jesus & thus be condemned. However, there'll be some saints, including the 144K Israelis mentioned in the Revelation.

5.) The great trib will begin. I believe God's physical agent to cause it will be the approach of another planet to earth, whose gravity could cause all its plagues, either directly or indirectly. remember, Jesus also said in Luke 21 that the seas will roar with perplexity, meaning that the tides will be disrupted, & men will faint from fear of what they see coming upon the earth, as they'll believe earth's gonna collide with the approaching other planet. In that same chapter of Luke, Jesus also said the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "Powers of the heavens" is an old term for the apparent motions of the celestial bodies as seen from earth.

6.) Jesus will return, stopping the trib, casting the beast & his false prophet alive, directly into the lake of fire, without passing "Go" or collecting $200. Jesus will then begin His millenial rule.

All supposition, no scripture.

 

[HankD]

Roby didn't supply the scripture but he did use scripture events and personalities to define his view of the last times.

putting these elements together in a timely fashion is the issue futurists get embroiled over..

 

[robycop3]

All supposition, no scripture.

I didn't quote the Scriptures that make my point for brevity's sake. However, if you think I'm wrong, try to prove me wrong. Go for it!

 

[HankD]

I didn't quote the Scriptures that make my point for brevity's sake. However, if you think I'm wrong, try to prove me wrong. Go for it!

No, generally I like your synopsis.

Another planet! - Interesting theory.

Maybe an asteroid? Hollywood calls this theme "Planet X" I believe.

 

[David Kent]

No, that's completely wrong. The antichrist, also known as the "beast, man of sin, that Wicked" will be ONE MAN. he will have a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. He will assemble a great empire, also called a beast, as per Rev. 17. Scripture says no man can overcome that man, while Napoleon once overthrew a pope(Pius VI) in 1798.

Scripture plainly says the marka the beast will be placed in the right hand or the forehead. My debit & credit cards are definitely not embedded in any of my body parts. And the tech already exists for implantable microchips that could replace those cards. I believe that'll be the marka the beast.

Interest is NOT unlawful.(Usury IS. Max interest rates are set by law.) Jesus didn't kick the money changers outta the temple for charging interest; He kicked them out for conducting business on temple grounds.

Scripture also plainly says the 144K will be Israelis, giving the names of the tribes. (The Jews will have a triple share, as they consist of 3 trimes.)

The rapture will occur shortly after the beast comes to power, I believe. He will have a ready explanation for the vanishing of millions of people, which the world will accept. The great trib will begin shortly after the beast commits the "abomination of desolation" in the new temple in Jreusalem by setting up his statue in it & declaring himself to be God.

Again all suppostion.

 

[David Kent]

there was a banking system in the Roman empire & in several other places before Jesus came, & he didn't denounce it. He used money, same as His disciples did. (Remember, he paid Roman taxes & I'm certain He gave offerings to the temple or to synagogues in various towns.)

The banking system is not of itself evil. It's MISUSE of it that's evil. For that matter, even barter can be evilly used; a merchant could barter out fake jewels, etc.

If you read the New Testament, how come you ignore the plain writing that the mark will be placed on the right hand or forehead? And if the AC is the line of popes, which one entered the temple in Jerusalem & declared himself to be God?????????????????

That malarkey gave rise to another false doctrine, the doctrine of preterism. the Spanish Jesuit Alcazar expanded that false doctrine to try to shield his pope from being labeled the antichrist. False begets false.

I suggest you PAY ATTENTION to what you read anywhere in the Bible.

As the papacy is antichrist, the mark of the beast must be to the RC pagan religion. The mark concerns the right hand and forehead It is the "sign of the cross" given by the "priest" on the forehead by the right hand of the child. Also by the deluded souls who "cross themselves" with their right hand and begin at the forehead.

 

[David Kent]

Rapture? God PLAINLY had it written that the true Church will escape the great trib, & Paul plainly wrote of that coming event.

Where?

 

[David Kent]

The "great tribulation" of the second coming of the Messiah is not long past, but the tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem is indeed long past, for those are two distinct tribulations, for after the Messiah was killed, then came the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, which was a tribulation of its own, where was carried out by the Romans, The first by Pagan Rome the second by Pagan and Papal Rome.

• John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
• Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,

 

[David Kent]

Scripture plainly tells us the AOD will be committed by the "beast".

Where?