What the Great Tribulation of the Second Coming Will Be Like

[OfLivingWaters]

Why would you think I do not believe in Yeshuah? Am I not on here teaching from books that are in the "new testament" that began with Yeshuah? Hello? A true Jew is not one who lives by Torah, but one who believes in Yeshuah through Torah. Besides stating the obvious, concerning my personal belief in Yeshuah, everything I have said concerning the "mark of the beast" is the truth, that it is the banking system, which you are dodging by attacking my belief in Yeshuah, which I already have. So what will your next excuse to not believe what I am telling you be? Hmmmmmm.

First of all Jewish is not the name of Christ's religion so don't get on your high horse and act like you are being victimized for your LACK of clarity. And you don't say .....concerning what scripture says a true Jew is. You brought up Torah as if Christians don't use it or don't see the lessons of it. No discussion of banking system in the OP. Lastly no one attacked your belief in Yeshua but asked if you believe IN YESHUA big difference. As for having some excuse of belief , I don't know you from a hill of beans and I do not have to believe anything from you, especially one who can not even read basic English .

 

[OfLivingWaters]

And also, the aeonial fire will be outside Jerusalem, as it is written,

…declares Yehovah, whose fire is in Zion, and whose furnace is in Jerusalem. (Isaiah 31:9)

…The blazing flame shall not be quenched, and all surfaces from south to north shall be scorched by it. All flesh shall see that I Yehovah have kindled it; it shall not be quenched. (Ezekiel 20:47-48)

And if your eye should cause you to stumble, cast it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into Gehenna, where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ (Mark 9:47-48)

And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind. (Isaiah 66:24)

For Mount Zion will come into existence from the second coming of the Messiah, and will flow with lava to the south, to Negev, and to the North, to Jerusalem, to the valley of Hinnom, which is outside the southern wall of Old Jerusalem, which is why Yeshuah called the place of fire "Gehenna". And because it will be a lake of lava is why the fire is unquenchable. Don't believe me? Go to Hawaii and try throwing water on top of lava. It is "aeonial" because it will be a lava that will flow for one aeon, the aeon of the rulership of the Messiah. Once his rulership is over, heaven and earth will pass away, INCLUDING this aeonial fire, which implies it is not eternal as your pastors say it is.

Also, God has predestined who will be delivered and who will not be. There would be no purpose in God predestining most all man to suffer eternally. Their only purpose is to exist is to be judged, and then to be destroyed, because they were appointed to be sinners, to thus be destroyed, to thus demonstrate the power and wrath and judgment of God.

You have no clue carry on, I am moving on .

 

[piziqof]

First of all Jewish is not the name of Christ's religion so don't get on your high horse and act like you are being victimized for your LACK of clarity. And you don't say .....concerning what scripture says a true Jew is. You brought up Torah as if Christians don't use it or don't see the lessons of it. No discussion of banking system in the OP. Lastly no one attacked your belief in Yeshua but asked if you believe IN YESHUA big difference. As for having some excuse of belief , I don't know you from a hill of beans and I do not have to believe anything from you, especially one who can not even read basic English .

I don't care to be called Gentile or Jewish, because I am both. Now, I made a statement concerning the banking system fulfilling the prophecy of the mark of the beast, in the context of the commands of the Torah. You can either accept this, or reject this. Which one do you choose? Stop babbling.

 

[piziqof]

You have no clue carry on, I am moving on .

The scriptures speak the truth in what they declare concerning Gehenna, and where it will burn, and for how long, so the one that has no clue is actually you.

 

[tyndale1946]

If one could find 1000 books describing the Great Tribulation of the Second Coming one would find 1000 different descriptions.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Y'all can bone up on all these different descriptions that Hank talked about so no one will be left behind... Step aside Christian when my Lord comes again... I'm going home... Brother Glen

 

[Dave G]

It was 'great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world nor ever shall be'.

Apologies, this will be a bit lengthy...but you're getting used to that, I imagine.


" And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." ( Matthew 24:3-5 )

With respect, when did the underlined and bolded parts happen?
Not yet, from my perspective....except for the last verse.
To me, we've living in that time of false christs and false prophets, and have been for quite some time.

David Koresh, many others come to mind.

" And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows." ( Matthew 24:6-8 )

I see the underlined above happening right now.

" Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." ( Matthew 24:9-14 )

The underlined in verse 9 has happened and is still happening, as I see it.
Verse 11 is happening right now.
Verse 14 is happening right now...and will happen until the end.

" When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:
17 let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. "( Matthew 24:15-22 )

Here's what I see, just down to here:

Jesus begins the passage by speaking about the end of the world and His second coming, because the disciples specifically asked Him about it.
He then gives a sequential, step-by-step set of events that will happen, starting with many coming in His name and saying they are the Christ.
There will be wars and rumors of wars.
Nation shall rise against nation...nothing new here. This has been happening for centuries.
Believers shall be delivered up to be afflicted ( tortured ) and killed...sounds a lot like the "Protestant Reformation" and the Inquisitions, if you ask me.
They shall be hated by all nations. Sounds like the day in which we live.
Skipping down to verse 14, the Gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness...and THEN shall the end come.

He then proceeds to tell them that when believers shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the Holy Place ( Daniel 9:27 ), then they that are in Judea should flee to the mountains.

After all of the above, with the abomination of desolation taking place, then shall great tribulation take place.
During that tribulation, there will no flesh be saved except those days be shortened...for the elects' sake.
If not for God's children being present on the earth, no human beings would be left alive.

Haven't see that yet.

" Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " ( Matthew 24:23-31 )


I haven't seen the Lord come ( as all eyes will see Him ).
So, there must not have been a tribulation such as the world has never seen yet...
Because immediately after the tribulation, He shall come.
As He's coming down, He sends His angels to gather His elect from the four corners of the earth and from one end of Heaven to the other.


That's why I'm not "pre-trib", nor do I believe in a " two part second coming", like J.N. Darby taught.
As for "amillenial", that's another lengthy post that I won't get into.

The way I see this saying, it's all sequential, with Matthew 24 and Mark 13 being the framework in which most of the end-time prophecies happen, including most of Revelation.



May God bless you all.

 

[piziqof]

Apologies, this will be a bit lengthy...but you're getting used to that, I imagine.


" And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." ( Matthew 24:3-5 )

With respect, when did the underlined and bolded parts happen?
Not yet, from my perspective....except for the last verse.
To me, we've living in that time, and have been for quite some years.

David Koresh, many others come to mind.

" And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows." ( Matthew 24:6-8 )

I see the underlined above happening right now.

" Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." ( Matthew 24:9-14 )

The underlined in verse 9 has happened and is still happening, as I see it.
Verse 11 is happening right now.
Verse 14 is happening right now...and will happen until the end.

" When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:
17 let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. "( Matthew 24:15-22 )

Here's what I see, just down to here:

Jesus begins the passage by speaking about the end of the world and His second coming, because the disciples specifically asked Him about it.
He then gives a sequential, step-by-step set of events that will happen, starting with many coming in His name and saying they are the Christ.
There will be wars and rumors of wars.
Nation shall rise against nation...nothing new here. This has been happening for centuries.
Believers shall be delivered up to be afflicted ( tortured ) and killed...sounds a lot like the "Protestant Reformation" and the Inquisitions, if you ask me.
They shall be hated by all nations. Sounds like the day in which we live.
Skipping down to verse 14, the Gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness...and THEN shall the end come.

He then proceeds to tell them that when believers shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the Holy Place ( Daniel 9:27 ), then they that are in Judea should flee to the mountains.

After all of the above, with the abomination of desolation taking place, then shall great tribulation take place.
During that tribulation, there will no flesh saved except those days be shortened...for the elects' sake.
If not for God's children being present on the earth, no human beings would be left alive.

Haven't see that yet.

" Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " ( Matthew 24:23-31 )


I haven't seen the Lord come ( as all eyes will see Him ).
So, there must not have been a tribulation such as the world has never seen yet...
Because immediately after the tribulation, He shall come.
As He's coming down, He sends His angels to gather His elect from the four corners of the earth and from one end of Heaven to the other.


That's why I'm not a-millenial, and why I'm not "pre-trib".
The way I see this saying, it's all sequential, with Matthew 24 and Mark 13 being the framework in which most of the end-time prophecies happen, including most of Revelation.



May God bless you all.

I might also add that there are multiple tribulations. The time Jerusalem was destroyed, was a tribulation. The time the set-apart people were persecuted by popes, those were tribulations. All the wars that have happened over hundreds of years, those are tribulations. After all those tribulations, then is the GREAT tribulation, which happens at the second coming of the Messiah, because he brings plagues upon the earth. In a certain order, as described in the study.

 

[kyredneck]

this will be a bit lengthy

Ah, it doesn't have to be. You could take 'the time is at hand', and, 'shortly come to pass', and, 'some of you will not taste of death', and, 'this generation shall not pass away', and 'I come quickly', and, 'in a very little while', etc., at their face value and be done with it.

 

[Dave G]

Ah, it doesn't have to be. You could take 'the time is at hand', and, 'shortly come to pass', and, 'some of you will not taste of death', and, 'this generation shall not pass away', and 'I come quickly', and, 'in a very little while', etc., at their face value and be done with it.

Oh, I do.
But I also take Matthew 24 and go through it methodically, being careful to see the words in context, noting every time He says, "then"...


To me, it's amazing what the very words on the page have to say, my friend.


Yes, the time is at hand ( very near ).
Yes, I agree that what He was saying would shortly come to pass, that He would come quickly and that He would be here in a very little while... from God's perspective ( 2 Peter 3:8 ) .
Yes, John did not taste of death ( Matthew 16:27 ) before Christ revealed to him the details of His coming in the book of Revelation ( Revelation 1:1 ). Peter mentioned His coming as well ( 1 Peter 1:13 ), but it's not written that he ever had a dream or a vision about it. Paul saw some things ( 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 ), and the Lord gave Him a thorn in the flesh for it. But I don't see him standing there with Jesus when that statement was made in Matthew 16:27.
Yes, "this generation" ( the generation that will be present at the time of the Tribulation ) would not pass away until all the things are fulfilled.


He really is close, and I look for Him right after Anti-Christ shows himself...Three and a half years, more or less.
It's going to get bumpy for us for that 3.5 years...most of us will die, I think ( Revelation 13:5-8 ).
The rest will live to see Him come ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ), and it will be something to see...a sight like no other.




A very good evening to you, sir.

 

[tyndale1946]

Ah, it doesn't have to be. You could take 'the time is at hand', and, 'shortly come to pass', and, 'some of you will not taste of death', and, 'this generation shall not pass away', and 'I come quickly', and, 'in a very little while', etc., at their face value and be done with it.

I agree Kentucky and then there is this one that we have hash and rehashed on this board since I've been here... Anything against Christ is Ant-Christ!... Brother Glen

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[robycop3]

The antichrist already came. The little horn comes in the context of the fourth beast of Daniel, which is Rome. As such, the only man that has ever fulfilled all the prophecies related to the antichrist are the line of popes. He is the true seat of the antichrist. He already came and has been alive for a long time. There is no "rapture", only the gathering shortly after the second coming. The mark of the beast is already here also, it is the banking system. If you swipe a debit card, you already have the mark of the beast. It is evil because it is based on an abomination forbidden in the Torah, interest and usury. The 144k will be the number of those who inherit the kingdom of God, from among Jews and also Gentiles, who will become the true Israel at his coming.

No, that's completely wrong. The antichrist, also known as the "beast, man of sin, that Wicked" will be ONE MAN. he will have a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. He will assemble a great empire, also called a beast, as per Rev. 17. Scripture says no man can overcome that man, while Napoleon once overthrew a pope(Pius VI) in 1798.

Scripture plainly says the marka the beast will be placed in the right hand or the forehead. My debit & credit cards are definitely not embedded in any of my body parts. And the tech already exists for implantable microchips that could replace those cards. I believe that'll be the marka the beast.

Interest is NOT unlawful.(Usury IS. Max interest rates are set by law.) Jesus didn't kick the money changers outta the temple for charging interest; He kicked them out for conducting business on temple grounds.

Scripture also plainly says the 144K will be Israelis, giving the names of the tribes. (The Jews will have a triple share, as they consist of 3 trimes.)

The rapture will occur shortly after the beast comes to power, I believe. He will have a ready explanation for the vanishing of millions of people, which the world will accept. The great trib will begin shortly after the beast commits the "abomination of desolation" in the new temple in Jreusalem by setting up his statue in it & declaring himself to be God.

 

[Dave G]

I agree Kentucky and then there is this one that we have hash and rehashed on this board since I've been here... Anything against Christ is Ant-Christ!... Brother Glen

Well said, Glen.

 

[robycop3]

I don't care to be called Gentile or Jewish, because I am both. Now, I made a statement concerning the banking system fulfilling the prophecy of the mark of the beast, in the context of the commands of the Torah. You can either accept this, or reject this. Which one do you choose? Stop babbling.

there was a banking system in the Roman empire & in several other places before Jesus came, & he didn't denounce it. He used money, same as His disciples did. (Remember, he paid Roman taxes & I'm certain He gave offerings to the temple or to synagogues in various towns.)

The banking system is not of itself evil. It's MISUSE of it that's evil. For that matter, even barter can be evilly used; a merchant could barter out fake jewels, etc.

If you read the New Testament, how come you ignore the plain writing that the mark will be placed on the right hand or forehead? And if the AC is the line of popes, which one entered the temple in Jerusalem & declared himself to be God?????????????????

That malarkey gave rise to another false doctrine, the doctrine of preterism. the Spanish Jesuit Alcazar expanded that false doctrine to try to shield his pope from being labeled the antichrist. False begets false.

I suggest you PAY ATTENTION to what you read anywhere in the Bible.

 

[piziqof]

No, that's completely wrong. The antichrist, also known as the "beast, man of sin, that Wicked" will be ONE MAN. he will have a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. He will assemble a great empire, also called a beast, as per Rev. 17. Scripture says no man can overcome that man, while Napoleon once overthrew a pope(Pius VI) in 1798.

Scripture plainly says the marka the beast will be placed in the right hand or the forehead. My debit & credit cards are definitely not embedded in any of my body parts. And the tech already exists for implantable microchips that could replace those cards. I believe that'll be the marka the beast.

Interest is NOT unlawful.(Usury IS. Max interest rates are set by law.) Jesus didn't kick the money changers outta the temple for charging interest; He kicked them out for conducting business on temple grounds.

Scripture also plainly says the 144K will be Israelis, giving the names of the tribes. (The Jews will have a triple share, as they consist of 3 trimes.)

The rapture will occur shortly after the beast comes to power, I believe. He will have a ready explanation for the vanishing of millions of people, which the world will accept. The great trib will begin shortly after the beast commits the "abomination of desolation" in the new temple in Jreusalem by setting up his statue in it & declaring himself to be God.

Are you so dull to not understand that the book of Revelation is a book of symbols? Did it not occur to you that just as the beasts of the book of Daniel were kingdoms that the beasts of the book of Revelation are also kingdoms? Do you not see that the "little horn" of Daniel rises from the fourth beast of Daniel, which is the Roman kingdom? Do you not understand that all the heads of the beast relate to the kingdoms of Daniel, beginning even before the Babylonians, which were the Egyptians as the first head, down to the 8th head which is a United States of Europe? Do you not understand that the second beast of Revelation relates to the kingdoms in Europe that came after Rome, which was the United States of America that formed from European colonies? You have absolutely no understanding concerning prophecy as it relates to actual history, and believe a fantasy concerning the antichrist who has ALREADY COME, and in this way, the true antichrist has also deceived YOU, because you have failed to recognize him.

Also, just as the seal on the forehead of the 144,000 in the book of Revelation is a metaphor, so is the mark of the beast on the forehead or right hand also a metaphor. The forehead is a symbol for ownership. The right hand is a symbol for authority.

Do you know what the Torah is? It is the Law of God, which is still binding today, per the words of the Messiah. The Torah says,

You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. (Deuteronomy 23:19)

And it is considered an abomination to God,

…charges interest. Will he live? He will not! Because he has done all these abominable deeds he will certainly die.
He will bear the responsibility for his own death. (Ezekiel 18:13)

As such, if you are willfully participating in the financial system, to buy and sell, you are committing an abomination. It is in fact, the fulfillment of the prophecy concerning the mark of the beast.

The scriptures state that everyone who belongs to the Messiah are GRAFTED INTO ISRAEL, which implies that all through the Messiah will become Israel, at his coming, 144,000 chosen, from those sealed from the sons of Jacob to those sealed to the second coming. The seal is the receiving the set-apart airflow.

There is no "rapture". Only the gathering of the people of God after the second coming of the Messiah.

Everything you believe is a lie, and you're stubborn, which makes it worse, and you're in for terrible surprise.

 

[piziqof]

there was a banking system in the Roman empire & in several other places before Jesus came, & he didn't denounce it. He used money, same as His disciples did. (Remember, he paid Roman taxes & I'm certain He gave offerings to the temple or to synagogues in various towns.)

The banking system is not of itself evil. It's MISUSE of it that's evil. For that matter, even barter can be evilly used; a merchant could barter out fake jewels, etc.

If you read the New Testament, how come you ignore the plain writing that the mark will be placed on the right hand or forehead? And if the AC is the line of popes, which one entered the temple in Jerusalem & declared himself to be God?????????????????

That malarkey gave rise to another false doctrine, the doctrine of preterism. the Spanish Jesuit Alcazar expanded that false doctrine to try to shield his pope from being labeled the antichrist. False begets false.

I suggest you PAY ATTENTION to what you read anywhere in the Bible.

The banking system is not evil?

You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. (Deuteronomy 23:19)

…charges interest. Will he live? He will not! Because he has done all these abominable deeds he will certainly die.
He will bear the responsibility for his own death. (Ezekiel 18:13)

You know nothing of the commandments of God, because you have no knowledge nor understanding of the Torah of God. You are a believer that has zero understanding,

The lips of the righteous feed many, But fools die for lack of understanding. (Proverbs 10:21)

Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of Yehovah, nor the judgment of their God. (Jeremiah 5:4)

They know nothing, they understand nothing; their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see, and their minds closed so they cannot understand. (Isaiah 44:18)

When its boughs are dry, they are broken; women come and make a fire of them. For this is a people without discernment; therefore he who made them will not have compassion on them; he who formed them will show them no favor. (Isaiah 27:11)

They are a nation without sense, there is no discernment in them. (Deuteronomy 32:28)

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. (Hosea 4:6)

Therefore my people go into exile for lack of knowledge; their honored men go hungry, and their multitude is parched with thirst. (Isaiah 5:13)

“How long will you who are simple love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge? (Proverbs 1:22)

when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you. “Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me, since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear Yehovah. (Proverbs 1:27-29)

 

[robycop3]

Are you so dull to not understand that the book of Revelation is a book of symbols? Did it not occur to you that just as the beasts of the book of Daniel were kingdoms that the beasts of the book of Revelation are also kingdoms? Do you not see that the "little horn" of Daniel rises from the fourth beast of Daniel, which is the Roman kingdom? Do you not understand that all the heads of the beast relate to the kingdoms of Daniel, beginning even before the Babylonians, which were the Egyptians as the first head, down to the 8th head which is a United States of Europe? Do you not understand that the second beast of Revelation relates to the kingdoms in Europe that came after Rome, which was the United States of America that formed from European colonies? You have absolutely no understanding concerning prophecy as it relates to actual history, and believe a fantasy concerning the antichrist who has ALREADY COME, and in this way, the true antichrist has also deceived YOU, because you have failed to recognize him.

Also, just as the seal on the forehead of the 144,000 in the book of Revelation is a metaphor, so is the mark of the beast on the forehead or right hand also a metaphor. The forehead is a symbol for ownership. The right hand is a symbol for authority.

Do you know what the Torah is? It is the Law of God, which is still binding today, per the words of the Messiah. The Torah says,

You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. (Deuteronomy 23:19)

And it is considered an abomination to God,

…charges interest. Will he live? He will not! Because he has done all these abominable deeds he will certainly die.
He will bear the responsibility for his own death. (Ezekiel 18:13)

As such, if you are willfully participating in the financial system, to buy and sell, you are committing an abomination. It is in fact, the fulfillment of the prophecy concerning the mark of the beast.

The scriptures state that everyone who belongs to the Messiah are GRAFTED INTO ISRAEL, which implies that all through the Messiah will become Israel, at his coming, 144,000 chosen, from those sealed from the sons of Jacob to those sealed to the second coming. The seal is the receiving the set-apart airflow.

There is no "rapture". Only the gathering of the people of God after the second coming of the Messiah.

Everything you believe is a lie, and you're stubborn, which makes it worse, and you're in for terrible surprise.

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

I suggest you do a reality check.

No, Revelation is largely LITERAL Its symbolism is largely explained, as in Ch. 17 where the angel who showed John the vision then explains it We see the AC will form an empire made up mostly of nations & peoples that were once in the Roman & Holy Roman empires. And we know that hasn't happened yet. We see in history that Napoleon, the Hapsburgs, & Mussolini all tried to assemble a new Roman empire, but failed.

And again, try reading the Scriptures CLOSELY, without adding private interps to them. For example, deut. 20:39 sez not to charge one's BROTHER any interest. That is, Israelis loaning to Israelis were not to charge them interest. But they could charge interest to GENTILES. Most of the Torah laws pertain to how Israelis are to treat other israelis. (Naturally, some laws, such as those prohibiting theft or murder pertain to all.)

Rapture? God PLAINLY had it written that the true Church will escape the great trib, & Paul plainly wrote of that coming event.

Appears that you're picking-n-choosing among Scriptures, bypassing or ignoring those that don't fit your goofy theories. you're forgetting that JESUS modified many of the laws. For example, the Torah says adulterers are to be executed, but JESUS offers them forgiveness for their sins.(Remember the Johannine Pericope about the adulteress caught in the act!) Of course, UNFORGIVEN adulterers will die the 2nd death of eternity in gehenna, so Jesus certainly didn't abolish that law!

As for the 4th beast of Daniel, I agree it was Rome. But Revelation takes it farther, stating that an 8th kingdom, that of the beast, will arise from the remains of the 7th. (The 6th Rev kingdom was Rome; the 7th, the Holy Roman Empire, hadn't then come.) and we know the HRE was made from the old Roman empire. Thus, the 8th will be made largely from those nations & peoples. I suggest you study some history.

Your whole nest of theories is just a private interp odf Scripture. By not believing Scripture LITERALLY AS POSSIBLE, you leave it open for private interps with which people can make it say whatever they wish.

And in no way did the angel give John any other explanation about the mark of the beast. Therefore, it MUST be believed as literal. And again, Jesus did NOT condemn the banking system. What the mark will do is place it under the beast's control so he can control all commerce thru it.

 

[Rob_BW]

I just finished a study on what exactly is the "great tribulation", and when it actually starts, also what the day the second coming of the Messiah will be like, and how the Torah autumn appointed times relate to the events of his second coming, and when the seven trumpets and seven bowls of Revelation actually happen. Check out the study here What the Great Tribulation of the Second Coming Will Be Like, and When the Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls of Revelation Will Happen | Wisdom of God .

Weren't you banned for denying the diety of Christ, under the username teknonoftheos?

 

[piziqof]

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

I suggest you do a reality check.

No, Revelation is largely LITERAL Its symbolism is largely explained, as in Ch. 17 where the angel who showed John the vision then explains it We see the AC will form an empire made up mostly of nations & peoples that were once in the Roman & Holy Roman empires. And we know that hasn't happened yet. We see in history that Napoleon, the Hapsburgs, & Mussolini all tried to assemble a new Roman empire, but failed.

And again, try reading the Scriptures CLOSELY, without adding private interps to them. For example, deut. 20:39 sez not to charge one's BROTHER any interest. That is, Israelis loaning to Israelis were not to charge them interest. But they could charge interest to GENTILES. Most of the Torah laws pertain to how Israelis are to treat other israelis. (Naturally, some laws, such as those prohibiting theft or murder pertain to all.)

Rapture? God PLAINLY had it written that the true Church will escape the great trib, & Paul plainly wrote of that coming event.

Appears that you're picking-n-choosing among Scriptures, bypassing or ignoring those that don't fit your goofy theories. you're forgetting that JESUS modified many of the laws. For example, the Torah says adulterers are to be executed, but JESUS offers them forgiveness for their sins.(Remember the Johannine Pericope about the adulteress caught in the act!) Of course, UNFORGIVEN adulterers will die the 2nd death of eternity in gehenna, so Jesus certainly didn't abolish that law!

As for the 4th beast of Daniel, I agree it was Rome. But Revelation takes it farther, stating that an 8th kingdom, that of the beast, will arise from the remains of the 7th. (The 6th Rev kingdom was Rome; the 7th, the Holy Roman Empire, hadn't then come.) and we know the HRE was made from the old Roman empire. Thus, the 8th will be made largely from those nations & peoples. I suggest you study some history.

Your whole nest of theories is just a private interp odf Scripture. By not believing Scripture LITERALLY AS POSSIBLE, you leave it open for private interps with which people can make it say whatever they wish.

And in no way did the angel give John any other explanation about the mark of the beast. Therefore, it MUST be believed as literal. And again, Jesus did NOT condemn the banking system. What the mark will do is place it under the beast's control so he can control all commerce thru it.

The entire world is under the whim of the Vatican, for even if you are not a catholic, then you use the banking system, which through many layers, all traces back to the Vatican Bank, and that is how the "whore of Babylon" rules over all the kings of the earth, not just through religion, but through money. You misunderstand these visions because of your lack of understanding of how prophecy relates to actual history. You have been deceived by the antichrist himself, which is why you have misidentified him, and are in subjection to his financial system, the mark of the beast, the banking system, which you fail to realize is an abomination, because the man of lawlessness has also darkened your understanding of the Law of God, which is the Torah, which says "you shall not charge interest to your brother", which the banking system transgresses because it lends to EVERYONE at interest, and even takes people's properties and livelihood if they fail to pay into the system, which is oppression of the poor, and gives you paper money, so that they can leverage interest and inflation to make the poor poorer and the rich richer by making the poor more indebted to the rich! You are completely blind and defend a system that is an abomination, even many who are not believers know that this system is evil! Why are believers so dumb and lack understanding in these things? Because they don't want to believe it, because they willfully participate in these systems, so they would rather believe fantasies concerning the antichrist and the mark of the beast than the truth that these evils already exist around us and that we must actually stop using the banking system.

 

[piziqof]

Weren't you banned for denying the diety of Christ, under the username teknonoftheos?

When have I ever denied the Messiah is God?

 

[Rob_BW]

When have I ever denied the Messiah is God?

Beats me. I just saw where you're linking to "studies" on that wisdomofgod website, same as teknonoftheos, and that was the reason he was banned.

If you aren't Christian Gaviria Alvarez, accept my apologies.