What verses say that faith is a gift that God gives man?

[Particular]

Romans 1

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.


25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

God says they are ungodly and unrighteous. Does that not mean their sins are not atoned for? How can a person who is made white as snow by Jesus blood, be called unrighteous? Did God fail?

No, God did not fail. God's wrath falls upon those for whom no atonement has been made.
When Jesus atoned for sins, God's wrath for unrighteousness fell upon Jesus and the sins He paid for. Why would God's wrath fall again on someone for whom the atonement is effectual?
The wrath of God can only, justly, fall upon those for whom there is no atonement. They are dead in their trespasses and sins. They are ungodly and unrighteous.
The evidence of God's Supremacy is easily observed by all humanity. But, humans exchange the Supremacy of God for a lie. The lie that THEY are in control and God is subservient to them. They worship themselves.

Utilyan, this passage condemns free-will philosophy as the philosophy lifts up the image of man and tears away at the Supremacy of God.

 

[InTheLight]

Where does the Bible say that humans who have been made white as snow by Jesus atoning sacrifice are still damned to hell because they reject Jesus?

Big #4.





Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[MB]

Text saying people go to hell for rejecting the truth please. Please, quote the passage and explain your interpretation within the context of the passage.

Why don't you know? It wouldn't do any good because you'd just say no one can resist God's grace. Men do it all the time. I did it until I was 14 years old but you couldn't believe that at all.
An example are the Jews Christ came unto His own and they received Him not.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
You'll just deny that the Jews did this. You'll say that means something else. Yet it was by Grace that Christ came unto them. Not to mention that those Jews who rejected Him are in Hell. They were cut off the root
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

If the payment is paid in full, it matters not if the person doesn't believe it. The payment is still made. The individual is atoned for. It's simple.

Exactly. I don't know what is so hard about that to understand.

So...you agree that not everyone is paid for. Correct?

Correct, I adhere to a limited atonement.

I am not asserting 1 John 2:2 has a universalist meaning. You are claiming I am doing that. That's another strawman argument you've created. #4.

I don't think that is #4. It is taking your position out to its logical conclusion. If all sins are paid for, all are saved. The debt has been forgiven.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Some people will not believe in Jesus, won't believe he was the son of God, won't believe in his resurrection, etc. They are not saved. They are damned. Still, Jesus died for them. They are rejecting his sacrifice.

Again, where does it say that the payment was for every individual?

 

[Reformed1689]

Why don't you know? It wouldn't do any good because you'd just say no one can resist God's grace. Men do it all the time. I did it until I was 14 years old but you couldn't believe that at all.
An example are the Jews Christ came unto His own and they received Him not.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
You'll just deny that the Jews did this. You'll say that means something else. Yet it was by Grace that Christ came unto them. Not to mention that those Jews who rejected Him are in Hell
MB

That actually doesn't say anything about people going to Hell for rejecting truth. That just says the Jews did not accept him as their Messiah.

 

[MB]

That actually doesn't say anything about people going to Hell for rejecting truth. That just says the Jews did not accept him as their Messiah.

Don't you believe that Christ is truth the only real truth there is?

 

[Reformed1689]

Don't you believe that Christ is truth the only real truth there is?

No, that makes no sense actually. Is the Father truth? Is the Spirit truth? Is Scripture Truth? The answer to all of these are YES. So no, I don't believe Christ is the only real truth. That's illogical and unbiblical.

 

[MB]

Don't you believe that Christ is truth the only real truth there is?

Not believing in Christ as the messiah is rejecting Christ. men cannot be saved with out Christ. The alternative is hell.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Not believing in Christ as the messiah is rejecting Christ. men cannot be saved with out Christ. The alternative is hell.
MB

I also believe that their sins were not paid for based on Scripture. There is nothing to suggest that their sins were in fact paid for.

 

[MB]

No, that makes no sense actually. Is the Father truth? Is the Spirit truth? Is Scripture Truth? The answer to all of these are YES. So no, I don't believe Christ is the only real truth. That's illogical and unbiblical.

Christ is the Father and the Spirit. He is also the WORD. Where is there any lie in that?.
MB

 

[Particular]

Big #4.





Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Quote it. I don't do numbers.

 

[Reformed1689]

Christ is the Father and the Spirit. He is also the WORD. Where is there any lie in that?.
MB

Oh boy, here we go. The Trinity is one yet also distinctly three. You cannot say only one part of the Trinity is the sole source of Truth. And no, Jesus is not the Bible, try again.

 

[InTheLight]

Quote it. I don't do numbers.

You said:

Where does the Bible say that humans who have been made white as snow by Jesus atoning sacrifice are still damned to hell because they reject Jesus?

Since no one has asserted that, it is a big fat ol' strawman.

 

[Reformed1689]

Quote it. I don't do numbers.

See his signature. He has a number system to deal with Calvinists right @InTheLight

 

[InTheLight]

Again, where does it say that the payment was for every individual?

When did I use the word payment in any of my responses?

I said "Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Some people will not believe in Jesus, won't believe he was the son of God, won't believe in his resurrection, etc. They are not saved. They are damned. Still, Jesus died for them."

 

[Reformed1689]

When did I use the word payment in any of my responses?

I said "Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Some people will not believe in Jesus, won't believe he was the son of God, won't believe in his resurrection, etc. They are not saved. They are damned. Still, Jesus died for them."

Ok so do you not believe in the atonement? I'm confused. If Christ died for all, that means he paid for the sins of all no?

 

[InTheLight]

Ok so do you not believe in the atonement? I'm confused. If Christ died for all, that means he paid for the sins of all no?

I don't think it means the same thing. In my view "died for their sins" is not the same as "atoned for their sins" because people that are not believers are not atoned.

 

[Particular]

Why don't you know? It wouldn't do any good because you'd just say no one can resist God's grace. Men do it all the time. I did it until I was 14 years old but you couldn't believe that at all.
An example are the Jews Christ came unto His own and they received Him not.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
You'll just deny that the Jews did this. You'll say that means something else. Yet it was by Grace that Christ came unto them. Not to mention that those Jews who rejected Him are in Hell. They were cut off the root
MB

I don't reject scripture. I do find your interpretation to often be poor. Let us look at John 1 as I believe you miss an awful lot..


John 1:1-5,9-13 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

"The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

How can men who reject God overcome God's atonement for their sins? They cannot, because God did not atone for their sins.

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God"

Who received God? Who believed in His name? (Notice, nothing about rejecting Jesus is in this passage.)

"who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

How were those who became children of God born? By whose will did that happen? It certainly wasn't by the will of men...now was it. It was by....wait for it...the will of God.

MB, thank you for bringing scripture to this thread.

 

[Particular]

You said:

Where does the Bible say that humans who have been made white as snow by Jesus atoning sacrifice are still damned to hell because they reject Jesus?

Since no one has asserted that, it is a big fat ol' strawman.

It's a big fat ol' question.

Do you believe that Jesus atonement doesn't make the recipient of his sacrifice white as snow?

 

[InTheLight]

It's a big fat ol' question.

Do you believe that Jesus atonement doesn't make the recipient of his sacrifice white as snow?

People who are believers have received Jesus' atonement and the stain of their sins have been washed away.

People who are not believers have not received Jesus' atonement and the stain of their sins remain.