George Antonios
Well-Known Member
I guess @InTheLight has got your number 
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What verses say that faith is a gift that God gives man?
- Thread starter George Antonios
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Sorry I can't pull a 5 or 6 on this
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Not really. Email yes, number no.I guess @InTheLight has got your number
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
@InTheLight are one of the anti-calvinists here that I have a good relationship with. We like to rib each other good. His are just more clever.I guess @InTheLight has got your number
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Well, I guess you gotta forgive him for having been predestinated to be an anti-calvinist
Particular
Well-Known Member
If the payment is paid in full, it matters not if the person doesn't believe it. The payment is still made. The individual is atoned for. It's simple.
If a person buys you a new car and fully pays the bill, the car is paid for regardless of whether you ever get behind the wheel and drive it. You aren't imprisoned for not driving it. It's paid for. It's just unused.
Rejection of God does not nullify the payment.
So, if a person dies in their trespasses and sins, it is not because they rejected to payment. It is because their sins were never paid for. They owe the debt for breaking God's moral law.
If the debt is paid, the person is justified by virtue of the payment made.
Particular
Well-Known Member
So...you agree that not everyone is paid for. Correct?
Particular
Well-Known Member
Nether John nor Peter give anyone fits. The context of the letters interpret the sentences you are plucking and wanting to have them live alone, apart from the letter. The person having the fit is the person who refuses to allow the context of the letter to define the meaning of the verse.
Everytime a person brings up 1 John 2:2 as a universalist meaning, they completely ignore the entire letter John wrote. It is really poor methodology, which leads to terrible interpretation of what John is writing about.
Yet another example of life to explain what God has said. Men go to hell for there rejection of the truth of Christ. I know that doesn't mean anything to you because you believe the opposite that we cannot resist God's grace. Well you can thank the Jews for rejecting Christ with out which us Gentiles all of us would be doomed.
MB
I am not asserting 1 John 2:2 has a universalist meaning. You are claiming I am doing that. That's another strawman argument you've created. #4.
Particular
Well-Known Member
God doesn't say "Men go to hell for their rejection of truth."
If that were so, all unreached people's would go to heaven since they never heard the truth and thus didn't reject it. It also would encourage us to never share the gospel since if no one hears, no one can reject and ipso facto, no one goes to hell.
Therefore, you are making a false claim about what the Bible says.
However, I don't doubt that you have been taught what you parrot.
Particular
Well-Known Member
What did I write?
Second, what is your assertion regarding 1 John 2:2?
They do for the rejection of the truth of Christ and that is the truth..
MB
In a direct response to a post I made you wrote:
"Everytime a person brings up 1 John 2:2 as a universalist meaning, they completely ignore the entire letter John wrote. It is really poor methodology"
the implication being that I'm using the verse in a universalist meaning. Universalism = all are saved.
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Some people will not believe in Jesus, won't believe he was the son of God, won't believe in his resurrection, etc. They are not saved. They are damned. Still, Jesus died for them. They are rejecting his sacrifice.
That was very good! You lay it out with verses side-by-side showing unequivocally that faith is not, and can not be a work. Nicely done.
The last third or so about Heb. 12:2 is exactly how I interpret that passage.
BenWest
Member
What do you tell people without Faith HOW to get to Heaven?
Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Clear cut examples of rejection of Jesus in which he claims to pay out for them.
John 6
27“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
which the Son of Man will give to you,
My Father who gives you
Jesus already offers himself and folks deny him.
When THEY deny him Jesus could have simply said YES it is TRUE I AM NOT YOUR BREAD, I AM NOT OFFERING YOU ANYTHING.
We get a picture later of who is saved and who is not with excellent contrasts in 1 John.
1 John 5
10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
Ask yourself WHAT IS THE TESTIMONY THAT IS NOT BELIEVED? Its right there people:
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
The testimonty is God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
Those who are damned reject this. They make God a LIAR. They say outloud God has NOT given us eternal life with his son.
According to Calvinism the REJECTOR is NOT A LIAR and telling the TRUTH.
When a reprobate says JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR ME, The SCRIPTURE SAYS that person is a LIAR.
Under Calvinism when a reprobate says I don't believe God has given me eternal life in his son, You would have to say he is telling the TRUTH. Scripture calls the person who denies that Jesus died for them a LIAR.
John 6
27“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?
which the Son of Man will give to you,
My Father who gives you
Jesus already offers himself and folks deny him.
When THEY deny him Jesus could have simply said YES it is TRUE I AM NOT YOUR BREAD, I AM NOT OFFERING YOU ANYTHING.
We get a picture later of who is saved and who is not with excellent contrasts in 1 John.
1 John 5
10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
Ask yourself WHAT IS THE TESTIMONY THAT IS NOT BELIEVED? Its right there people:
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
The testimonty is God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
Those who are damned reject this. They make God a LIAR. They say outloud God has NOT given us eternal life with his son.
According to Calvinism the REJECTOR is NOT A LIAR and telling the TRUTH.
When a reprobate says JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR ME, The SCRIPTURE SAYS that person is a LIAR.
Under Calvinism when a reprobate says I don't believe God has given me eternal life in his son, You would have to say he is telling the TRUTH. Scripture calls the person who denies that Jesus died for them a LIAR.
Particular
Well-Known Member
When you say "Jesus died for the sins of the whole world," you are making a universal claim. That's a universalist claim.
Where does the Bible say that humans who have been made white as snow by Jesus atoning sacrifice are still damned to hell because they reject Jesus?
Either Jesus blood is wasted and he died in vain, or human action trumps God's action.
Neither option is taught in scripture. The proof of your assertion is on you.
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