Particular
Well-Known Member
Utilyan, the text makes it clear you are wrong. You have accused God of failing and making a mistake. Such an accusation is serious against our King. I feel sad for you.
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What's YOUR definition of "predestination" in Scripture ?
- Thread starter robycop3
- Start date
The scripture made it quite clear that Saul capturing David banked on his decision to stay or not. If David would have stayed the city would turn him in.
Calvinist-God however, predetermines and ordains everything. So he already knows where David will go, There is no such thing as "IF" for Calvinist God. "IF" is an illusion that does not exist in Calvinism because "IF" would have a hand in authoring things as they happen.
YOU admitted it yourself "Because God told David what would happen if he stayed at Keilah, David knew he had to leave and thus spare the city."
YOU SAID "IF" and that is all it takes to admit your wrong., I accept your AGREEMENT that Calvinist view of GOD is WRONG.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Odd argument.
You are arguing from speculation.
The fact is God told David what would happen when David asked. David took the Sovereign proclamation of God and left the city precisely because he knew God did not lie about what would happen if David remained.
David wanted to know if the city walls would protect him. God said, no. David obeyed and left.
Why do you glory in your self, utilyan, while denying the Supremacy of God?
Nope. I believe in a Supreme God that can handle difficulties too much for your idea to comprehend.
"You are arguing from speculation."
Certainly God gave a speculation, RATHER than just ordain a particular order of events.
"God did not lie about what would happen if David remained."
There is no such thing as "what would happen if" God ORDAINS all things to his PURPOSE.
There are no surprises, No change of plans, there is no what IF I CHOSE this or that, GOD PRE-ORDAINS everything including all your choices.
According to your theology God lied about what would happen saying he PRE-ORDAINED SAUL WOULD COME.
"David wanted to know if the city walls"
Then he would have asked about city walls, he did not. He specifically wanted to know if SAUL would come and if the City's people would turn him over.
You just can't go writing FAKE teachings we go with what scripture actually says.
After joining a Near Death Group it appears we are all predestined to go to heaven. Hell is not a place we are sent to.
Multitudes will be cast into hell. It is certain.
A multitude no man can number will be in Heaven and scripture says so... Brother Glen
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
But we have nothing to boast about, we were headed there too but God showed us mercy in his Son Jesus Christ!
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Particular
Well-Known Member
I can't even follow the twisted and tortured logic you have displayed. Anyone else care to explain what utilyan is talking about?
The poster was suggesting that no.one goes to hell.A multitude no man can number will be in Heaven and scripture says so... Brother Glen
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
But we have nothing to boast about, we were headed there too but God showed us mercy in his Son Jesus Christ!
They don't want to touch this with a 10ft pole. You should have done the same.
Its quite simple. Under your silly theology there is only ONE WAY future that is exactly like how ORDAINS it will happen. There is no "IFS" If you do this or that it does not change the one way God ordained that you did this or that.
Had God ORDAINED Saul to capture David, David would have been caught.
Particular
Well-Known Member
It seems you have no clue what the difference is between foreknowledge and ordination.
People don't address you because they have given up hope for you.
Let me school you some calvinism
God ordains,foreordains, preordains, WHATSOEVER comes to pass and it is IMMUTABLE that is cannot be changed.
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;
What comes to pass is never multiple possibilities. Under Calvinism it can only unchangeable be EXACTLY as GOD ORDAINS.
The Passage with David PROVES this theology to be FALSE.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Did the destruction of the city come to pass?
No.
Why?
Because God ordained that David leave the city.
Why did David leave the city?
Because God told him what would happen to the city if he didn't leave.
Are you following the foreknowledge and ordination of God yet, or are you still clueless in your understanding?
Utilyan, you show yourself, in this dialogue, to be poorly understanding God and his word.
You make me sad. [emoji22]
"Because God told him what would happen to the city if he didn't leave."
Why do you have to make up a fake story not told in scripture? Show scripture to back up your false story.
David never bought up leaving. He only asked if Saul would come and would the people of the city hand him over.
11“Will the men of Keilah surrender me into his hand? Will Saul come down just as Your servant has heard?
He didn't ask God "do you think I should leave?" Nothing in here about "IF I STAY" or "IF I GO"
There is no "IF he didn't" when God in detail, meticulously, thoroughly, dictates and ordains all events that come to pass.
Since you do not understand what it means for God to ORDAIN all things this simple logic will remain over your head.
Do not add untruth to the scripture. Go with what it says, stop adding fake ideas.
Particular
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you cannot comprehend God's word, utilyan. I truly am. [emoji22]
At this point it is a fools errand to keep talking with you about this subject. This is my last comment to you on this subject. Remain in your prejudice, I give you over to your own path.
"I give you over to your own path"
Funny, Your theology teaches there is only one path the Path God Ordains.
You don't even believe your own teachings.
Well they are wrong according to scripture... Brother Glen
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Your assuming God's Judgement. Scripture is clear he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. We can all end up in hell. The ruling has not been made.
Selfish folks have a silly view of hell. Point the gun to your daughter rather then yourself.
Particular
Well-Known Member
What works of men must still be done before the ruling is made, utilyan?