When Abel was killed was he in Abraham bosom/side (paradise) by himself?

[Tim71]

When Abel was killed was he in Abraham bosom/side paradise by himself?

 

[percho]

I would say that he was the first to die, and for a while was the only, to die in the following, hope; NKJV Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; The substance of that hope being the coming of, the faith (see Gal 3:23-25) therefore Able was also the first to die, in faith, the substance of hope.

He was in Sheol and his blood, poured out soul, still speaks because of the faith that did come.

 

[JonC]

God was there

 

[Tim71]

God was there

“We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭
Now that Abel is present with the Lord. It must have been strange to be the only redeemed creature present

 

[TCassidy]

Paradise is simply Heaven. The "2nd compartment of sheol" myth is merely a Protestant Purgatory.

When Abel died he went to Heaven.

When Enoch was translated he went to Heaven. Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

When Elijah was translated he went to Heaven. 2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

 

[JonC]

Paradise is simply Heaven. The "2nd compartment of sheol" myth is merely a Protestant Purgatory.

When Abel died he went to Heaven.

When Enoch was translated he went to Heaven. Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

When Elijah was translated he went to Heaven. 2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

Just thinking (I know...I know..), perhaps this came from the account (or parable) of Lazarus and the rich man. Were the wicked considered as going to Sheol and the righteous to Heaven (or is Sheol a more generic term)?

 

[percho]

2 Cor 5:4,5 For we that are In thistabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing isGod, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2,3 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.


Are those verses speaking of the same as the following?


Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

V11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Is the quickened mortal body the same as the redemption of the body and, that which, we groan within ourselves, for, of Romans 8 the same as our house from heaven which we groan to be clothed with, that replaces our mortality with life of 2 Cor. 5?


When does our house from heaven, life, swallow up our mortality? When does the Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead quicken our mortal bodies? When do we receive the redemption of the body?


Romans 8:24,25 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, thendo we with patience wait for it.


Is Abel, faith? Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Or is Abel dead in the faith of Jesus having been obedient unto death and being raised from the dead?

Heb 11:39,40 And these all, having obtained a good report through (the) faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[Jope]

We know from Jacob that he believed he would meet his son in Sheol (Gen. 37:35). We know that this is not the grave, because he believed that his son was torn in pieces by a wild animal (verse 33).

 

[Jope]

We know that Peter called Sheol the Greek equivalent Hades, when he references Psalm 16 (Acts 2:27). We know that paradise was in Hades because Jesus tells the thief on the cross that He will meet him that day in Hades, which is where He was going (Acts 2:27). We know that there was a compartment before the cross in Hades where the righteous went and received comfort instead of torments (Luke 16). We know that many OT saints are now in heaven (mt 27:52-53; Hosea 6:2), and we know that paradise must be moved to the third heaven from 2 Corinthians 12:4.

 

[TCassidy]

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Greek παραδεισω. The Garden (Eden) of God. Not hades.

2 Corinthians 12:4 "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Was Paul, after the cross, caught up to paradise or caught down to Hades?

Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Is the tree of life in paradise or in hades?

You can't just make this stuff up as you go along.

 

[TCassidy]

is Sheol a more generic term

Yes.

Yes. It simply indicates the place of the departed. Variously translated "grave" "pit" etc.

 

[Jope]

You can't just make this stuff up as you go along.

I didn't "make this up". Read some theology

 

[Jope]

Make a cogent rebuttal to my Genesis 37:35 and 37:33 position then. How could Jacob meet His son in Sheol if Sheol was a physical place, when he believed his son was torn in pieces?

 

[TCassidy]

I didn't "make this up". Read some theology

LOL! ROFLOL! You must be new here.

 

[TCassidy]

So, God lied when He said Elijah was translated and went to Heaven? 2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

 

[Jope]

So, God lied when He said Elijah was translated and went to Heaven? 2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

How does Elijah's translation into heaven negate the existence of Sheol in a place separate from the grave?


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[TCassidy]

How does Elijah's translation into heaven negate the existence of Sheol in a place separate from the grave?

So you think Elijah went to heaven but all the rest of the OT saints went to someplace else?

Did he get really lonely being up there all alone?

And is God, therefore, a respecter of persons. Elijah went to heaven but the rest did not? Elijah was somehow better than the rest of the OT prophets and saints?

I don't think so.

 

[Jope]

So you think Elijah went to heaven but all the rest of the OT saints went to someplace else?

It would seem so. Just like Enoch. Both were prototypes of Christ and His present heavenly church.

Did he get really lonely being up there all alone?

So, you're basing your argument on the fact that a man can't be lonely. Not the strongest argument I would use. Numerous saints in the bible were lonely on earth. Also, time is relative. In heaven, time doesn't operate the same way we perceive on earth. Question for you though, why does Zechariah 4:13-14 talk about two distinguished entities in his vision?

"'Don’t you know what these are?' And I said, 'No, sir.' So he said, 'These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth'" (NET).​

And is God, therefore, a respecter of persons.

That is a strange argument. Is God also the respector of persons in choosing to distinguish Jew from Gentile in His special calling of Abraham and His covenant with Him and His progeny?

Elijah went to heaven but the rest did not? Elijah was somehow better than the rest of the OT prophets and saints?

Read Luke 7:28.

"I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he is" (NLT).​

John came in the spirit of Elijah.

 

[Happy]

Paradise is simply Heaven. The "2nd compartment of sheol" myth is merely a Protestant Purgatory.

When Abel died he went to Heaven.

When Enoch was translated he went to Heaven. Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

When Elijah was translated he went to Heaven. 2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

John.3

1. [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Bodies die and return to the dust.
"restored and saved" souls depart a dying body and go to Paradise.
Paradise is WHERE the tree of life is, which keeps the living soul unto God.
....the tree of life was in the garden..
....the tree of life was thereafter in hell, on the side of the gulf with Abraham...
....the tree of life is now in heaven.
....the tree of life shall be in Christ's earthly kingdom.

Born again spirit
of man, depart a dying body and go to God. (Spirits of Gods seed, never die, thus do not require the tree of life to sustain them.)

There are many members in ONE body, and each member is called by the identity of the body.

Rom.12
[4] For as we have many members in one body

Elijah's body returned to dust, his soul went to hell (with Abraham), his spirit went to heaven.
Enoch, the same.
Abel, the same.

Jesus' soul went to hell, while His body was in the tomb, and His Spirit went in Gods hands...and Jesus' soul returned to his body, (and his body resumed living)....

After Jesus (soul) being FIRST to leave hell, thereafter, all living souls of the saved now go directly to heaven, where the tree of life presently is.

 

[TCassidy]

John.3

1. [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Context is your friend. Read verse 12.

And no man hath ascended into heavens - No living man has ascended into the heavens, therefore, no living man is qualified to speak of heavenly things.