When are names written in the Lamb's book of life?

[Steven Yeadon]

Exodus 32:32
Exodus 32:33
Psalms 69:28

So, the Old Testament teaches names are blotted out of the book due to sin.

Also, you forgot Revelation 3:5.

Also, I'm not Arminian on soteriology, I hold more to a quasi-Lutheran approach. We are predestined and God wants none in hell this is the paradox of God's higher ways.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

How do you see the usage to be different? Hebrews 4:3, Hebrews 9:26, also Luke 11:50.

Heb 4:3. '......Although the works were finished from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world./
Heb 9:26. 'He would then have had to suffer often since [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world.'

God's works of creation were finished from the foundation of the world. Therefore there were no more of them since that time.
If Christ had made a once-for-all sacrifice for sin, He would have had to suffer constantly since the foundation of the world.

Therefore, when we read of the names 'written in the Lamb's book of life from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world,' the fact that apo is used does not tell us whether the names were written at the foundation of the world, or throughout the time since then. It is the context that will help us decide.

 

[Van]

Heb 4:3. '......Although the works were finished from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world./
Heb 9:26. 'He would then have had to suffer often since [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world.'

God's works of creation were finished from the foundation of the world. Therefore there were no more of them since that time.
If Christ had made a once-for-all sacrifice for sin, He would have had to suffer constantly since the foundation of the world.

Therefore, when we read of the names 'written in the Lamb's book of life from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world,' the fact that apo is used does not tell us whether the names were written at the foundation of the world, or throughout the time since then. It is the context that will help us decide.

Since Hebrews 4:3 says the works were finished since the foundation of the world, it does not refer to works continuing. This has nothing to do with the span of time indicated, but rather what happened before. All of the constructions when the span of time is indicated should be translated "since the foundation of the world."

 

[Van]

Exodus 32:32
Exodus 32:33
Psalms 69:28

So, the Old Testament teaches names are blotted out of the book due to sin.

Also, you forgot Revelation 3:5.

Also, I'm not Arminian on soteriology, I hold more to a quasi-Lutheran approach. We are predestined and God wants none in hell this is the paradox of God's higher ways.

The OT "book of the living" is not the Lamb's book of life, therefore those references are non-germane.
Born anew believers are predestined to two things, (1) to be conformed to the image of Christ, and (2) to be raised in glorified bodies at Christ's second coming.

Claims people are "predestined to salvation" are as bogus as a three dollar bill.

Revelation 3:5: ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

This verse again contains the promise to never blot out any name from the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Shoostie]

Ronald Reagan would say, "There you go again."

Provide a quote for what I said, rather than misrepresent my view.

Note folks, the change in topic, rather than address the topic.

Of course we existed for our faith to be credited as righteousness by God and then put in Christ and our names enrolled in the general assembly.

I don't see how I misrepresented your view. I was asking for details of your view I haven't seen you provide. Those were questions, not asserts of your views.

 

[1689Dave]

Recently a thread was closed after certain posters ran up the number of pages in the thread presenting absurd nonsensical arguments, and off topic endless questions. The ploy was once again successful

One poster claimed all the names of everyone start out in the book. and so by inference, the names of the lost are blotted out. No scripture which says, suggests or hints at this ludicrous absurdity were provided.

It was said because the names of the lost were not written in the book since the foundation of the world, that means their names were written before the foundation of the world, then blotted out at an unstated time. Pure fabrication. There is more evidence that God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars, than God blotted any name out of the Lamb's book of life.

What does scripture actually say.

1) Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 say those whose names were not found written in the book since the foundation of the world were thrown into the lake of fire. Amazingly, posters claimed a logical inference is not that other names found written in the book of life since the foundation of the world were not thrown into the lake of fire.

2) Revelation 21:27 says only those who have been written in Lamb's book of life enter the New Jerusalem. Therefore the people existed before there names were written in the book. Again, this refers to the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, and precludes before the foundation of the world. Notice the verse does not say only those foreseen who have been written. But this is the alteration the naysayers demand.

3) Hebrews 12:22-23 say the spirits enrolled in the general assembly in New Jerusalem have been made perfect. Therefore, they were enrolled after they were placed in Christ. And again, the naysayers deny this obvious truth.

In summary under the New Covenant, names are written in the Lamb's book of life in the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, after God puts them into Christ and made perfect.

he problem is God is omniscient so the names of the saved are eternally present in his mind and unchanging plan.

 

[37818]

Heb 4:3. '......Although the works were finished from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world./
Heb 9:26. 'He would then have had to suffer often since [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world.'

God's works of creation were finished from the foundation of the world. Therefore there were no more of them since that time.
If Christ had made a once-for-all sacrifice for sin, He would have had to suffer constantly since the foundation of the world.

Therefore, when we read of the names 'written in the Lamb's book of life from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world,' the fact that apo is used does not tell us whether the names were written at the foundation of the world, or throughout the time since then. It is the context that will help us decide.

Well, it seems you are understanding what as done "from" to mean to have been done "at" that foundation of the world. Not between then and now.

 

[37818]

The OT "book of the living" is not the Lamb's book of life, . . . .

A few things to note. The book of life is only called the "Lamb:s" book in Revelation 21:27 (Revelation 13:8). Referring to names being removed (or not), Exodus 32:32-33, Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3:5. And NASB translates the Hebrew in Psalms 69:28, as the "book of life."

 

[37818]

Claims people are "predestined to salvation" are as bogus as a three dollar bill.

Romans 8:29-30, ". . . For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. .Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. . . ."

 

[loDebar]

Romans 8:29-30, ". . . For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. .Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. . . ."

you are misrepresenting, you are only predestined to be in the form of Jesus AS A HUMAN, place time family etc.
note one cannot be like Jesus (as you suppose the verse says) until one is called, justified and glorified, All three as part of salvation

so the verse is not as you suppose

reference:
Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[1689Dave]

Well, it seems you are understanding what as done "from" to mean to have been done "at" that foundation of the world. Not between then and now.

Believers have eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end and always stands in the immutable council of God.

 

[37818]

You have interpreted it to be the Lamb's book, but that view is being read into the text.

Interpretations do that. That is what sets an interpretion apart from the explicite reading of a text. OT, Exodus 32:32-33; Psalms 69:27-28; Daniel 12:1-2, NT, Revelation 3:5; Revelation 20:11-15, are nevertheless related.

 

[37818]

Believers have eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end and always stands in the immutable council of God.

Believers have a beginning. So if eternal life can only be without a beginning, then those who have a beginning can never really ever have eternal life.

What is caused has a beginning. What is uncaused is God Himself.

 

[1689Dave]

Believers have a beginning. So if eternal life can only be without a beginning, then those who have a beginning can never really ever have eternal life.

What is caused has a beginning. What is uncaused is God Himself.

Eternal life has no beginning or end. Believers are brought forth in time and awakened to the fact God saved them through the faith he gives them.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Heb 4:3. '......Although the works were finished from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world./
Heb 9:26. 'He would then have had to suffer often since [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world.'

God's works of creation were finished from the foundation of the world. Therefore there were no more of them since that time.
If Christ had made a once-for-all sacrifice for sin, He would have had to suffer constantly since the foundation of the world.

Therefore, when we read of the names 'written in the Lamb's book of life from [Gk. apo] the foundation of the world,' the fact that apo is used does not tell us whether the names were written at the foundation of the world, or throughout the time since then. It is the context that will help us decide.

Right on Martin!

 

[37818]

you are misrepresenting, you are only predestined to be in the form of Jesus AS A HUMAN, place time family etc.
note one cannot be like Jesus (as you suppose the verse says) until one is called, justified and glorified, All three as part of salvation

so the verse is not as you suppose

<snip>

It is my understanding we whom God saves are predestined to be glorified like His Son. How is that a missunderstanding?

 

[37818]

Eternal life has no beginning or end. Believers are brought forth in time and awakened to the fact God saved them through the faith he gives them.

So am I to understand you, you actually beleive when we have eternal life (1 John 5:12-13) we become like God to have no beginning?

Eternal life has no beginning . . . .

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Since Hebrews 4:3 says the works were finished since the foundation of the world, it does not refer to works continuing. This has nothing to do with the span of time indicated, but rather what happened before. All of the constructions when the span of time is indicated should be translated "since the foundation of the world."

I hesitate to state the blindingly obvious, but whether you translate apo as 'from' or 'since' (or indeed 'at,' 'by,' 'for,' 'in,' 'on,' or 'sonce') does not change the meaning of the original which can only be discerned by the context.
FWIW, the KJV translates apo as 'since' only seven times, and as 'from' 372 times [source: Young's Analytical Concordance]

 

[Alan Gross]

he problem is God is omniscient so the names of the saved are eternally present in his mind and unchanging plan.

EVERYTHING Jesus Christ
was to Be, Do and Suffer for His people
WAS DETERMINED by GOD
in ETERNITY PAST.

The Extent of the Decrees,
ETERNAL DETERMINATIONS
and Purposes of God,

Continue to be Proven
showing that the Decrees,
ETERNAL DETERMINATIONS
and Purposes of God,

Reach to
the EXTENT of ALL THINGS
that Come to Pass in the World,


INCLUDING:

The peopling of the world,
the distinction of nations;
the rise, progress,
and ruin of states, kingdoms,
COUNTRIES and empires,

Particularly, the people of Israel,
The Assemblies of GOD'S people,
in the Old Testament
and the New Testament,

In short,

everything respecting

all the individuals of the world

from the Beginning of the World,
to the End of the World,

are

The Result of the Decrees,
ETERNAL DETERMINATIONS
and Purposes of God,

in addition to:

All that Jesus Christ
was to Be,

All that Jesus Christ
was to Do,

and All that Jesus Christ
was to Suffer
for His people.

https://wp.me/p2LgYL-1aH

All that Jesus Christ
was to Be, Do, and Suffer
for His people,
are what the Hand and Counsel of God
before Determined;

JESUS' Incarnation,

the time of JESUS' Coming
into the world;

all that JESUS met with,
from the Hand of God,

from men and devils,

while in the World;

as well as,

JESUS' Sufferings and Death,
and all circumstances attending the same

as GOD shows us in Galatians 4:4;

"But when the fulness of the time
was come,

God Sent Forth His Son,
Made of a woman,
Made under the law"

from Acts 4:28, 2:23;

"For to do whatever Your Hand
and Your Counsel
Determined
before to be done...

"Him, Being Delivered by the
Determinate Counsel
and
Foreknowledge of God,
you have taken,
and by wicked hands
have Crucified and Slain"

and in Luke 22:22, 37;

"And truly the Son of Man Goes,
as it was
Determined:
but woe to that man

by whom He is Betrayed!"

In a word,
everything that
Comes to Pass in this World,
from the Beginning of the World
to the End of the World,
is Pre-Ordained;

Everything, good and bad;
"good" by GOD'S Effective Decrees;

that is, such by which He Determines

what He Will Do Himself,

or Will be Done by others;



and "evil" things,

by His Permissive Decrees,

by which He Permits things to be done;

and which He Overrules for His Own Glory;



Things contingent,
which, with respect to second causes,

may seem to be, or not be,

as the free actions of men;

such as the Prophesies,

Founded on Decrees,

concerning the names of Josiah and Cyrus,

and of actions being performed by them

of their own free will,

many hundreds of years before they were born;


Even things of the least importance,
as well as the greatest;

the hairs of mens' heads are numbered;

two sparrows, not worth more than a farthing,
and yet DO NOT fall to the ground,
without the Knowledge,

Will, and Purpose of God
(Matthew 10:29, 30;

"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing?
and one of them will not fall on the ground
without your Father.

But the very hairs of your head
are all numbered."

Adapted from:
http://www.gracesermons.com/robbeeee/Gill-book2.html

...

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[loDebar]

It is my understanding we whom God saves are predestined to be glorified like His Son. How is that a missunderstanding?

one can't be like His Son , maturity as you suppose, until after one of called, then justified and glorified.
The verse is showing to be a human, first is required ( Heb 11) then can be called, then adjusted (salvation) then glorified