When is/was/will the 1st seal be opened?

[dad2]

Circumcision made one a Jew and a physical member of Israel. Jesus abolished the rite. This means biblical Jews and Israel do not exist today. The Church of believers, circumcised in heart, is Israel.

Well, it means, as far as I knew, that to be saved we do not need any Jewish rituals or anything else. That does not mean Jews vanished or did not do things Jewish themselves any more. In the family of God there are all kinds. Jews, Greeks, etc etc. The church was set up because the Jews failed by rejecting Jesus. One day God will save all of Israel, and a remnant will be saved.

 

[1689Dave]

Did you ever look at all the things in that book? For example the churches. You do realize they were already there when the book was written, and had started acting certain ways?
Jesus also clarified when the main part of the end time prophesies will happen.
Mat 24:So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

But you move everything into the future adding to Revelation. Things began before and continued as John was writing. But you look for his symbols to appear instead of what they depict and miss the entire message. Study God's four sore judgments in the OT. That is what the seals, trumpets, and bowls (vials) are about. They are the same events in our history but from different views. Some yet to happen.

 

[1689Dave]

Well, it means, as far as I knew, that to be saved we do not need any Jewish rituals or anything else. That does not mean Jews vanished or did not do things Jewish themselves any more. In the family of God there are all kinds. Jews, Greeks, etc etc. The church was set up because the Jews failed by rejecting Jesus. One day God will save all of Israel, and a remnant will be saved.

Circumcision made one a Jew. It's a religion. They are gentiles today parading themselves about thinking they are Biblical Israel. They are not. The Church is.

 

[dad2]

“THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” Revelation 1:1 (KJV 1900)

Why do people have so much trouble reading Revelation? It's because the Jesuits placed it in the futuristic tense to remove the Papacy from the charge made by Protestants of being the Antichrist. If they could place him into the future, instead of the present, nobody would suspect him being the man of sin.

So any futurist interpretation of Revelation comes from them and not from John the Revelator.

Why can't people see any fulfillment in the prophecies? Because they look for the symbols to appear instead of what the symbols represent. Look around, it is all happening before our eyes, and has been.

Don't over estimate Jesuits. The bible is full of prophesy about the end time. The Jesuits have nothing to do with it. People reading Revelation need to understand what they are reading or it is hidden from them. They do not know what they are reading. God used very many allusions to and references to passages in the old testament in that amazing last book of the bible.Unless one knows the rest of Scripture, they will be lost when it comes to Revelation. There is no possibility that the events of the very end were able to happen in the early years of the church. Only after certain things started to happen would those final things happen. So when looking at all the things in Revelation, the word shortly must be taken in context.

 

[1689Dave]

Don't over estimate Jesuits. The bible is full of prophesy about the end time. The Jesuits have nothing to do with it. People reading Revelation need to understand what they are reading or it is hidden from them. They do not know what they are reading. God used very many allusions to and references to passages in the old testament in that amazing last book of the bible.Unless one knows the rest of Scripture, they will be lost when it comes to Revelation. There is no possibility that the events of the very end were able to happen in the early years of the church. Only after certain things started to happen would those final things happen. So when looking at all the things in Revelation, the word shortly must be taken in context.

You need to study the evidence against them. They are the ones who inserted a gap of 1000's of years into Daniel's 70 weeks. It turned Jesus into Antichrist! Don't spout off without some serious study. They want to deceive you and have done so to most of Evangelicalism.

 

[dad2]

“THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” Revelation 1:1 (KJV 1900)

Why do people have so much trouble reading Revelation? It's because the Jesuits placed it in the futuristic tense to remove the Papacy from the charge made by Protestants of being the Antichrist. If they could place him into the future, instead of the present, nobody would suspect him being the man of sin.

So any futurist interpretation of Revelation comes from them and not from John the Revelator.

Why can't people see any fulfillment in the prophecies? Because they look for the symbols to appear instead of what the symbols represent. Look around, it is all happening before our eyes, and has been.

Oh? Sounds like fun. let's do that then. Let's look at the bottomless pit that opened and the hundreds of millions of weird creatures that came out of it and attacked men for a certain number of days! Wait, that never happened yet. Let's look at the mark of the beast people needed for centuries now to be able to buy or sell anything under penalty of death. Wait, never happened! Let's look at the angel flying in the sir preaching the everlasting gospel. Nope, never happened. Let's look at the earthquake that moved all continents out of their place and levelled all towers and mountains. No. Never happened. The list is long of such end time things that show us your story is not of God.

 

[robycop3]

Circumcision made one a Jew. It's a religion. They are gentiles today parading themselves about thinking they are Biblical Israel. They are not. The Church is.

No; DESCENT FROM JUDAH, BENJAMIN, OR LEVI makes one a Jew.



What does a Jew call an uncircumcised Jewish baby? A girl!

Sammy Davis Jr. practicd Judaism, but wasn't a Jew. Zola levitt is a Jew, but doesn't practice Judaism. The Jews are a PEOPLE, not a religion.

 

[1689Dave]

Oh? Sounds like fun. let's do that then. Let's look at the bottomless pit that opened and the hundreds of millions of weird creatures that came out of it and attacked men for a certain number of days! Wait, that never happened yet. Let's look at the mark of the beast people needed for centuries now to be able to buy or sell anything under penalty of death. Wait, never happened! Let's look at the angel flying in the sir preaching the everlasting gospel. Nope, never happened. Let's look at the earthquake that moved all continents out of their place and levelled all towers and mountains. No. Never happened. The list is long of such end time things that show us your story is not of God.

You are looking for the symbols instead of what they depict. You cannot see the demons in front of you. Red dragons? Green horses? A drunk might see them but you never will unless you hit your head.

 

[dad2]

addressing the teaching of the pre-trib rapture.
*It became "mainstream" after Darby in 1830ish ... and an English girl had a dream about it IIRC (trying to be concise)
*Matt 24 - deceive many, even the elect. If the prince of persia was so motivated to withstand Gabriel, why WOULDN'T he introduce a deception about the timing of the rapture?.... He's on YouTube ... his testimony.

Still sounds less than clear.

I don't understand how you have understood random chance from the comment I used with 2 Thess 2 as my reference about the restrainer. No of course not. God orchestrates the steps. I'm saying the increasing irrationality, the increased division, the increased hatred ... is a product of the restrainer being removed.

Right. God allows the punk to have a field day and throw his best punches before clobbering him.

OK ... another misunderstanding. I'm not saying Jesus doesn't rapture us. I'm addressing John 17:15 in "The High Priestly Prayer." Jesus interceded for us ... specifically asking that we not be taken out of this world. The Father sends The Son, right? Only The Father knows the day/hour. God took Elijah and Enoch out this world ... I understand this part of Jesus' prayer as one to keep us in the world, not of it, and from the evil one while we are in it and not of it ... until Jesus is sent to Return.

Right. Point being that He was not praying that forever. He said we would be where He is in the place He prepared.

Correct ... not ALL people on the earth. I believe this reference of gathering is of the existing nephilim at the time. (a whole nuther thread can be started on the "neppies" as you say but for this one can we agree that they exist today as Gen 6 tells "in those days and also afterward" ... given we are in the afterward)

Unless they were on the ark, they would be killed.

full Humans will be left in place. Those who have their spirit breathed back to life --- assuredly in Jesus' hand (John 10:28-29) the double minded as well as the surrendered to Jesus ... as well as those who are alive and have rejected Jesus and His Gospel. All 3 conditions of a man: Natural Man (1 Cor 2:14), Worldly Christian (1 Cor 3:1-3), Spiritual Christian (Gal 2:20) will remain for a period after this gathering of the nephilim.

Except the whole Neppie thing is bogus.

I think the period between this gathering and the rapture is short because ... all the "neppies" in the valley of Meggido aren't gonna stay there very long after they recover from their disorientation. That's Al's conjecture, but I think it's reasonable. Perhaps it's not.

Men are gathered to that place. Not neppies or aliens or cats...etc.

I'm only using this vanishing/gathering as a star trek transporter because you used the term (and I like it, will use it again, thanks!). Again, I'm not saying "all the world's population" will be transported to Israel. All the world's existing nephilim ... who are kings/captains (CEOs et al) ... not humble servants.

Can you produce a Neppie for us? Maybe a picture and address? That should be curious. Sorry, no such thing.

this was intended to distinguish between who gets gathered and who gets raptured. And from the parable, we know the gathering occurs first.

When is that gathering? If it is at the end of the world, then it is long after any Rapture. People are still growing and living together in the Tribulation, so the harvest is not then. When they are separated in the end, that is judgment time. If you look at the various times of judgments, such as the judgment of nations, the great white throne judgment it becomes clear you need to know when the wheat get separated from the chaff. You can't conflate it all together.

So ... you WANT to be left behind during THAT event. Don't wanna miss the rapture! I agree there! but there's gonna be a crazy wild demonstration PRIOR to the rapture. A non-believer with a nephilim when he's 'gathered' will cause confusion.

Maybe if some demon or bad person claimed they were a Neppie it might spook some poor unbeliever. Not too bright those guys.

Shoot, it'll prob confuse a lotta "wheat" too ... for those who are spiritually prepared and have the knowledge (Hosea 4:6) ... THAT "wheat" will have about enough time to recognize what just happened and start grinning ... it's "go home time!"

The only ones who ever get transported and fly up in the air to get new bodies are believers. Not Neppies. Not the wicked..etc.

There has been one "immaculate conception" which wasn't evil. The rest of 'em ... evil. Perhaps not hollywood monster goul and 18' tall, but evil nonetheless. I'm gonna reference a teaching by islam, so bear with me ... taqiyya. lying/deceiving to promote islam. There's a lotta taqiyya happening in the muslim community around the world (where they are the minority) ... and of those who are fundamentalists (they have their back sliders, too ... "cultural muslims" is what I call 'em ... no threat. But those swinging scimitars? Those supporting the scimitar swingers? ah, threat. both physically and to a Godly way of life: freedom.

Not sure what all that was about. Hopefully you don't thing there were virgins having babies.

 

[dad2]

part 2 of reply--

Again ... a thread about nephilim is warranted. Referenced here only in the relevance to your OP.

Maybe one about the tooth fairy too?

no sir ... that's my effort to be concise ... to avoid paragraphs about the nephilim. But being without a spirit means they CANNOT receive from The Spirit.

Unless you can produce at least a single one of these Neppies, sorry, they might as well be Leprechauns.

Therefore ... all of 'em are evil. we don't need to be concerned with who is and who isn't, but we DO need to be aware they exist today ... per Gen 6.

Today, for your information is not Gen 6. Even if some sons of angels used to exist before the flood, so what?

I think I failed to communicate ... I am not saying the nephilim exist in the millennium. I am saying they expressly they opposite. They do NOT exist at the point of the Millennium's beginning, they are "history." Gen 6's reference stops before Christ reigns with His heirs on planet earth.

In fact it is before the flood. A lot changed since then. No Neppies anywhere these days. Do a random check in a movie theatre or organize a police road side Neppie check. You'll see.

The only evil which exists during the Millennium is of Satan himself and he's the "last of the mohicans" locked away unable to "accuse" for this period of 1000 years. (Gonna avoid the amillennial discussion as to whether that time is literally 1000 earth years in this thread)

You got a little confused. Satan is not on earth at that time. There will be sin though, even in that perfect environment.

Sir ... Ex 23:20 - ... this is the conquest of Canaan. The land Joshua and Caleb had "spied" 40 years prior and were the only two of the 12 Moses commissioned to "recon" the Promised Land. Numbers 13 ... the bunch of grapes so large they had to cut a pole and carry it between two men. The 7 tribes of Canaanites had giants among 'em ... God's angel went before them and in a single year (so the land wouldn't lie desolate) destroyed 'em all ... and commanded Joshua to send his mighty men to kill the "regulars" (my word) including the women and children. They were all nephilim, seeded by Ham and his wife after The Flood. "don't mix with them" was the command of The Angel (Jesus pre incarnate)

Hope that if you paid for that story you can get a refund. There is no mention of Neppies there at all, you inserted it.

... as an aside ... Nat Geo ran an article in August or September '20. Archaeologist said they'd found 3400 year old Canaanite ruins, but no remains of humans. I think they were 300 years off in their dating. I think they found one of the cities of a Canaanite tribe (IDK which one) from the Conquest ... and that if they keep digging around, they're gonna find mass graves ... which will include 5' long femurs. The Angel told Joshua to "clean up the place" after each engagement.

There could be many reasons for that. One reason might be that humans could not leave remains in the time before the flood, and even shortly after it because nature was not the same in that time as it is now. We can guess all we like. Having a site with no remains yet found does not mean it was crawling with Neppies!

no, it isn't the Word of God ... 7 day celebration = 7 years wedding feast of The Lamb ... but given the parable of the 10 virgins is wholly based upon the Jewish wedding, I would stop short in saying the Jewish wedding party has no great meaning. The "So" is the parallel of the 7 year period on planet earth post Armageddon and 7 years in Heaven. A consideration. There's no passage which specifically says this ...

Yes numbers are significant, but we should not read too much into them when we have plenty of clear prophesies to go on. I plan to spend eternity in heaven. Visits to earth to help rule with Jesus, will be like excursions as far as I am concerned. So some seven year period after Jesus takes over the world has no real meaning to me.

because I think it does. You challenged that notion, which is fine, but I'm offering that if Ezekiel's vision from chp 43 has already occurred, why has there been no writing of it?

I prefer to try to solve mysteries I did not invent.

I'd think there'd have been a LOT of writings on this were the Triune God occupying the 2nd Temple as Ezekiel described. It also validates there will be a 3rd Temple which Ezekiel saw as well as John.

Why get bogged down on things about a future temple that don't really matter all that much to us?

Rev 11:1-2 ... "...get up and measure the temple of God ..." "... but leave out the outer courts for that is given to the nations (gentiles) ... ... who will trod for 42 months."

The abomination (dome of the rock) of 691 was prophesied by Daniel and is the reference of Daniel 12 to understand ... "...blessed is he who endures to the end, 1335 (years)" ... just as Daniel prophesied the crucifixion of Jesus ... precisely.

The building on the mount is not the abomination of desolation. If Israel sets up a temple there it will be an abomination as well. Sacrificing animals showing Jesus will come one day is an abomination and blasphemy.

 

[robycop3]

The abomination of desolation mentioned by Daniel happened in the 160s BC when the Seleucid ruler, Antiochus Epiphanes, entered the temple, set up a statue of Zeus in it, & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. Thus, a similar event will occur in the future.

 

[dad2]

But you move everything into the future adding to Revelation. Things began before and continued as John was writing. But you look for his symbols to appear instead of what they depict and miss the entire message. Study God's four sore judgments in the OT. That is what the seals, trumpets, and bowls (vials) are about. They are the same events in our history but from different views. Some yet to happen.

Using His word to place prophesy in perspective is anything BUT adding to it. You cannot wave symbols away as unreal. A symbol is at least as real as what it symbolizes! Usually in Revelation it also tells us when it is something of a symbol. It says things such as 'and I saw something LIKE unto a..' Just because the man who rules by Satan in the end is called a beast does not mean he is an animal roaring into a microphone. It means that his heart is evil and he is a destroyer etc. Nothing about calling him a beast takes away from the reality of the man.

 

[dad2]

Circumcision made one a Jew. It's a religion. They are gentiles today parading themselves about thinking they are Biblical Israel. They are not. The Church is.

Circumcision was an outward sign one was chosen. Loving God and believing Him made them chosen.

 

[dad2]

You are looking for the symbols instead of what they depict. You cannot see the demons in front of you. Red dragons? Green horses? A drunk might see them but you never will unless you hit your head.

Nothing about calling Satan by other names that describe him makes him unreal.

 

[dad2]

The abomination of desolation mentioned by Daniel happened in the 160s BC when the Seleucid ruler, Antiochus Epiphanes, entered the temple, set up a statue of Zeus in it, & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. Thus, a similar event will occur in the future.

No it did not. Count off 1260 days from that time. Did the world end?

 

[robycop3]

No it did not. Count off 1260 days from that time. Did the world end?

The event WILL occur. Remember, Jesus said "WHEN you see...", showing it was future. It didn't occur again in the old temple before it was destroyed.

 

[Two Wings]

Maybe one about the tooth fairy too?

sure ...

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss. y'all have a merry Christmas .... 3 months late. Adios.

 

[Two Wings]

The abomination of desolation mentioned by Daniel happened in the 160s BC when the Seleucid ruler, Antiochus Epiphanes, entered the temple, set up a statue of Zeus in it, & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. Thus, a similar event will occur in the future.

I believe there was more than one abomination in the reference. This one you cite ... and then with a larger scope of time, I believe the dome of the rock's construction is another which spans centuries ... and is a point about which to KNOW "what time it is" with something a bit more specific than "soon."

 

[dad2]

The event WILL occur. Remember, Jesus said "WHEN you see...", showing it was future. It didn't occur again in the old temple before it was destroyed.

Exactly. Daniel's abomination of desolation is future. Not in 70AD or 610ad or whatever nonsense.

 

[dad2]

sure ...

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss. y'all have a merry Christmas .... 3 months late. Adios.

Cheers. Keep us posted on any Neppie sightings eh?