Where do you draw the line on booze?

[Abiyah]

For me, if I were a drinker, I would limit my
intake to wine and/or lighter drinks--no hard
liquor. Even then, I would limit it to one glass
with dinner. I really do not think that there is
biblical support for harder drinks than wine!

To me, however, alcohol smells bad, and it
tastes even worse. I learned as a young
woman that everything I ever put booze in
tasted and smelled So Much Better without
the booze. Ah! A daquerie (sp?) or a pina
colada made with 7-Up! Fabulous! With
booze? GROSS! Creme de Minthe without
the booze is heavenly! Sweet and sour mix
in 7-up is great! Coke and rum tastes a lot
better without the rum and a whole lot better
if you throw away the Coke and use Pepsi
instead. But that's another thread.

I will still cook with wine, but put booze in
anything that is not cooked, and you get an
inferior product with an inferior taste for a
high. I do not believe that people drink it
for the taste; it is for the high.

[ August 26, 2002, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
I do not believe that people drink it
for the taste; it is for the high.

Liquor is just gross. I don't see how anyone can drink it in the first place. I can't say that no one drinks it for the taste, but I can't imagine finding pleasure in that taste.

Good beer on the other hand, I enjoy very much.

That having been said, this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

I still don't believe that a couple of beers in moderation is necessarily a sin and I still believe in a Christian's liberty to make that choice, but I've decided just to stop doing it altogether.

I've seen recently how just a little beer can cause a whole lot of trouble so, while I wouldn't look down on someone else for doing it, I think I'll just stick to Coke and iced tea from here on out.

Mike

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Glory Bound:
It's real easy to say drinking alcohol is fine unless it is abused. But what is abuse? Where do you draw the line? How do you know you are approaching the line? Is one drink okay, but two are too much? Or are two drinks okay, but three are too much? How do you know your blood alcohol level?

Sure, you can recognize the extremes. But can you recognize the line between sober and drunk?

Each drink (including the first) adds alcohol to the blood stream. When do you go from sober to drunk?

That's a good question.

I'm 6'4" and about 260lbs (I've put on about forty pounds in the last few months) so I can probably drink more than a lot of people.

It's very rare that I'll drink more than three or four beers.

In fact, I usually don't even drink teh whole bottle because I nurse them until they're so warm that they're no good.

I usually know it's time to switch to soda when I start telling the "Clifford Allison" story to the chick next to me.

Mike

 

[Abiyah]

8o) Mike --

I made the same decision some years ago,
after not being able to drink enough to
experience the high, because it just tasted
so bad. Little did I know that this decision
would save my life. I just learned this fact
a few months ago in the doctor's office.

Nothing wrong with that kind of decision,
Smoke Eater! Mmay our Ggod bless you in
your decision. 8o)

 

[stubbornkelly]

I do not believe that people drink it
for the taste; it is for the high.

Odd girl out over here. I like the taste of some liquors. I like a nice martini, or a good scotch, neat. It tastes good to me.

I will agree, though, that many people do drink primarily to get drunk. Not surprisingly, I found that in college. People would not say "I'm hanging out with some friends tonight," they would say, "I'm going to get drunk tonight." Big difference in my mind. I still find it with some of my co-workers. We have a happy hour about once a week, and while I'm content with my one (sometimes two) gin and tonic(s), many of them are drinking 4 and 5 and 6 beers within an hour or two. And not even good beer, either! But, maybe that part's relative. I generally don't drink beer, since I haven't found too many that are any good. If I'm going to have a drink with alcohol in it, I'm going to drink something I like, which tends to be liquor or red wine.

Clearly, I do drink alcohol, but I don't get drunk. That's the line I draw. I got drunk once as a college student, and that was enough to tell me I didn't like it and shouldn't do it. It was also enough to tell me where my personal line is. The very few times since then I've found myself a bit tipsy, I've switched to water or soda, and found myself kicking myself for not havng paid enough attention.

There are, of course, some people who shouldn't drink, and some people who simply choose not to drink. But there are also those who aren't convicted not to drink, and for whom a drink or two isn't a gateway.

 

[Ransom]

Smoke_Eater said:

Liquor is just gross. I don't see how anyone can drink it in the first place. I can't say that no one drinks it for the taste, but I can't imagine finding pleasure in that taste.

Good beer on the other hand, I enjoy very much.

Ah, but there's the thing - although I enjoy beer now, the first time I tried it I thought it tasted quite unpleasant. I had no such experience with spirits - actually I found the sensation of alcohol evaporating in my mouth to be quite an interesting sensation, and the other flavours were pleasing.

Like beer, spirits are an acquired taste and not for everyone.

For Abiyah:

I really do not think that there is
biblical support for harder drinks than wine!

That's because the human authors of the Bible knew no drinks stronger than wine. Although they were distilling sake in the Far East a few centuries before Christ, the West didn't have the technology to distill spirits until the Middle Ages.

Therefore, the Bible is silent on the topic, and so we have to apply the Scriptures by analogy - what it says about wine is also applicable to other, stronger alcoholic beverages - with the additional caveat that since spirits are more potent, the potential for abuse is greater.

[ August 26, 2002, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Abiyah]

Ransom --

8o) I guess I would disagreee with you. They
did have stronger drinks than wine; otherwise,
there are several Sscriptures that would not
have been necessary. Also, history shows
that they had other drinks.

 

[SBG]

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

[Ransom]

"Strong drink" is a translation of the Hebrew shekar: "strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor." It appears to be a generic term denoting any fermented liquor that was not wine - in other words, beer, mead, and so forth - as evidenced by its proximity to the Hebrew yayin, "wine," in Prov. 20:1.

There's no indication the Biblical authors had distilled spirits in mind, or necessarily even drink stronger than wine (even today most table wine is more potent than most beer, although there are individual exceptions to the rule).

 

[SBG]

You are correct about the translated Hebrew word, however, it can mean distilled intoxicating liquor. There are several sources that indicated that there was not only fermented spirits in the near and middle east, but distilled as well.

 

[blackbird]

Can BrianT prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His disciples drank? Was BrianT there?

God help you guys! You make me madder than a wet hornet!

 

[Ransom]

[oops]

[ August 26, 2002, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Ransom]

SBG said:
There are several sources that indicated that there was not only fermented spirits in the near and middle east, but distilled as well.

Such as?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by blackbird:
[QB]Can BrianT prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His disciples drank? Was BrianT there?

Of course I was not there. But we have scripture as a witness.

Matt 11:18-19
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. [19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Also, consider John 2. This is not an account of Christ drinking wine, but he did turn water into wine at a wedding. Ask yourself this question: how would you react if you witnessed this, Christ actually creating this "evil" substance? Would you be madder than a wet hornet at Christ?

There are also numerous verses from both testaments about use of wine for priests, sacrifices, etc. I suggest you look a few of them up, it is actually very interesting.

 

[ChristianCynic]

You make me madder than a wet hornet!

Your stinger still ain't sharp enough to be considered a threat.

 

[GIG]

Unbelievable ! I have now seen posted in the "Baptist" section " should a Christian woman wear a thong on a public beach??" Should a Pastor date one of the teens and now several uphold the Idea of Christians drinking and smoking cigars!! Lets see " I know i've had too many beers when I tell a story to the Chick sitting next to me " I don't suppose that chick was sitting next to you in lets say the 5 th pew from the right??? The bible says to come out and be separate from among them and for us to be holy and to abstain from the appearance of evil ...Ok simple question, And this goes to a few pastors/revs that came out in support of this..." you're their kicking back having a couple glasses of wine or knocking down a few bruskies with the chicks" when a lost alchoholic comes up to you and asks"how can I be delivered from this terrible sin of alchoholism" and Since normally the "Good booze fairy" doesn't drop this "wine" from the sky to your home, I imagine you had to purchase this alchohol from somewhere...what kind of testimony are you being for Christ??? Be ye Holy! SBG, I commend you for your stand ! You know there are some areas that are a little gray and I like SBG just believe that to take a stand as far away from the world sets me apart a little more..

 

[blackbird]

Dear Cynic,

Just come on over to Mississippi and I'll show you a threat! A lot of you guys would love to take a "Swing" at us Tee-tote-lers!! But I guarantee you one thing--I can do anything a hundred times better without a sip of that junk than you can sippin it!!

 

[susanpet]

In regard to America abusing their sugar intake as opposed to drinking alcohol, when was the last time you heard of someone crashing their car because of DUIC( driving under influence of candy)?
I am against drinking. I know what it can do to innocent lives. I've been there. I use to party with the best of them in my younger days. It just spells trouble.
What I can't understand is why you hear all the negative stuff about tobacco, but hey, it's alright to down a few and then drive. People who smoke get a bad rap. Sure, it's an addiction and causes health problems, but you don't hear of someone running red lights because of smoking.
Farmers are suffering because of legislative decisions and the breweries are probably sailing right along, making more and more money.
I live in a rural community where many families liveihood depends on tobacco. That's all they know.

Susan

 

[BrianT]

GIG, you are misrepresenting the issue. And you, like everyone else, has avoided the issue of Christ and the apostles drinking wine. Why does everyone keep dancing around this? Never mind, I know why.

Susanpet, what you are describing (crashing cars because of DUI, etc) is about abuse. We all agree abuse is wrong.

I am against drinking. I know what it can do to innocent lives

Are you against sex? It also, *if abused* can wreck innocent lives. Are you against medication? It also *if abused* can wreck innocent lives. Are you against money? It also, *if abused* can wreck innocent lives. There are many things that can be dangerous and sinful *if abused*.

 

[ChristianCynic]

Originally posted by blackbird:
Just come on over to Mississippi and I'll show you a threat! A lot of you guys would love to take a "Swing" at us Tee-tote-lers!! But I guarantee you one thing--I can do anything a hundred times better without a sip of that junk than you can sippin it!!

Blacky, we live about 480-500 miles apart. I probably drove by or through your town of Wesson {sounds oily to me} in March, 2001 when I was going from New Orleans to Jackson. Anyway, I am not driving that far to prove you can't do "anything a hundred times better" than I if I was to sip a glass of wine and you were not.

But we neither of us have to travel. How about if the challenge is to write a sermon in 500 words or less, and I give my word to finish one glass {150 ml} of wine before I start writing mine, and "sip" while writing? {and you, of course, sip none}

I don't propose this idea because I like it; in fact, I think it's silly. But were you serious about your challenge, or were you not?

Ed. And by the way, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you were attempting hyperbole when you said "a hundred times better." If anyone actually does support this 'challenge' by comparing our sermons, yours will just have to be substantially better, not 100x.

[ August 26, 2002, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: ChristianCynic ]