Where Does Faith Come From?

[atpollard]

Sorry you cannot justify using the word idiot.

idiot
noun
id·i·ot | \ ˈi-dē-ət \

Definition of idiot

1 : a foolish or stupid person

2 dated, now offensive : a person affected with extreme mental retardation

Untrue. The word has a legitimate meaning.

However, it is speaks volumes that you choose to be offended on behalf of another, yet care nothing about the facts of what was actually said or what is true.

Have you thought about a career as a Social Justice Warrior?
You seem to have the temperament for it.

 

[Revmitchell]

idiot
noun
id·i·ot | \ ˈi-dē-ət \

Definition of idiot

1 : a foolish or stupid person

2 dated, now offensive : a person affected with extreme mental retardation

Untrue. The word has a legitimate meaning.

However, it is speaks volumes that you choose to be offended on behalf of another, yet care nothing about the facts of what was actually said or what is true.

Have you thought about a career as a Social Justice Warrior?
You seem to have the temperament for it.

tu quoque
You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.
Pronounced too-kwo-kwee. Literally translating as 'you too' this fallacy is also known as the appeal to hypocrisy. It is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off someone having to defend their argument, and instead shifts the focus back on to the person making the criticism.

Your logical fallacy is tu quoque

 

[atpollard]

tu quoque
You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.
Pronounced too-kwo-kwee. Literally translating as 'you too' this fallacy is also known as the appeal to hypocrisy. It is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off someone having to defend their argument, and instead shifts the focus back on to the person making the criticism.

Your logical fallacy is tu quoque

Back home we just called it "tit for tat".

You treat me with respect and I treat you with respect.
You treat me dismissively and I respond in kind.

[Proverbs 18:17] "The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him."

• (you made it clear that you had no interest in hearing more than one side)

 

[kyredneck]

I think the “their” included the faith of the man healed.

16 And when even was come, they brought unto him many possessed with demons: and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all that were sick: Mt 8

 

[Revmitchell]

Back home we just called it "tit for tat".

You treat me with respect and I treat you with respect.
You treat me dismissively and I respond in kind.

[Proverbs 18:17] "The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him."

• (you made it clear that you had no interest in hearing more than one side)

No I saw both sides. It matters not. Even if every accusation you leveled was absolutely correct, your description of him as an idiot is unnecessary, uncalled for, and ungodly. In other words morally wrong.

 

[Iconoclast]

And you have a low view of scripture and find it insufficient.

Hello RM,
First I want to thank you for being honest enough to stick to your view and post it publically.
We differ substantially and that is no secret to anyone.I did however appreciate you not trying to twist my words, or change yours just for the sake of trying to distort what was said as certain others have done.Thank you.
Now as far as my view of the scriptures, I believe they are the greatest gift God has given to mankind.
I understand the ideas you and others have offered but find them seriously defective to a point that would affect any presentation of the gospel.

When you and others speak of the word of God alone being sufficient in and of itself it is not true. The word of God is perfect yes, but it does not save everyone all by itself.
The position I and every real Calvinist offer is that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, as God the Holy Spirit does his hidden unseen work as Jesus describes in John3:3-12.
Without that work no one is saved, not one.

In what I see as a partial reply you mentioned that men have everything they need, both Adam and us.
When asked about the "fall"...
You spoke of it as interference???
I enquired about this as it gets to in large part the core of our disagreement.
You did not clarify this, perhaps another thread or two will help. Thanks again for your honesty which not all display on here.

 

[Iconoclast]

In accompaniment of the Holy Spirit. Yes.

From Adam Clarke...


It is the power of God unto salvation - δυναμις γαρ θεου εστιν· The almighty power of God accompanies this preaching to the souls of them that believe; and the consequence is, they are saved; and what but the power of God can save a fallen, sinful soul?

Thank you for this post helping clarify the issue SG.

 

[Jerome]

When we receive Christ by faith as He is offered to us, we are delivered from death, reconciled with God, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

I agree with that statement.

Anybody else?

 

[Iconoclast]

@Iconoclast

If you want to have a one on one conversation there is a feature for that. Send him a PM.

Anyone can comment on the open forum. Do not tell anyone to keep out of your "conversation" on the open forum.

When you have sent your pm's there is no reply button. So your posts accusing me of things that are not so cannot get a reply.
I am speaking to you as a poster, not as a moderator.
In fact in.light of your activities it is better to speak out in the open as I have no secrets here.
While anyone can post anywhere on the forum,I believe it is in everyone's best interest if you ignore my posts and me personally.
You have a habit of going off topic and making me the topic of several threads.
That you are listed as a moderator complicates things.
As A poster I can deal with anything you offer.
Salty, Rsr, and Squire do not do this to me or anyone else.
They like, or dislike or ignore my posts let anyone else is free to do.
I do not think as a poster you understand my posts correctly as you have a jaundiced eye when you "follow" my posts.
I have asked you several times to not do this but you cannot help yourself.
As a poster you have recently claimed to be a "Calvinist".
Well anyone can Claim to be anything I suppose these days.
I do not know of any Calvinist on this board who would identify you with such a label
In fact I doubt anyone on here among the non cals would make such an identification.
I asked you one time to show 3 or 4 of you strongest teachings and defense's of the position as I cannot recall any.
Is there any non cal who recalls JonC opposing what they have posted? Maybe it slipped by un noticed.
To see you are right there with Dr. White is more than a stretch as a poster...

 

[Iconoclast]

The issue is some have boxed themselves in with their philosophical views. They cannot tolerate an opposing position enough to even understand it but instead look for an echo chamber. That's the difference between those who understand and those who have simply been indoctrinated into a position (it is not the view itself).


Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it; well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

No what's happening here is everyone of the calvinist the real Calvinists understand the historic position of the church more or less and they agree with the scripture where everyone else is opposing major parts of scripture at some point or another and they need correction.
It is not so much an echo chamber as you like to say but it just one believer feeding off the other believers and contributing along the same line to show the more less Unity of belief.
Your comment you don't like it any more than you men is assuming most people are on board with you and you are point of view. That is not correct in fact I would say most are not with you on this issue

 

[Iconoclast]

Anybody else?

Jerome I can agree with this statement. If I understand the statement as it's written these things occur simultaneously not one in front of another one behind the other simultaneously then I could agree with the statement just fine
If the receiving of Christ by Bayou a true faith is according to John 113 then is not a problem they all happened at one point in time you go from Death to life from Darkness to light so there you go

 

[Iconoclast]

No, Paul is not contradicting himself.

Sometimes people do not realize that their "wisdom" has been set aside.

The issue is that Paul has said that the "gospel is the power". You condemn other Christians for saying the exact same thing, even when they have qualified the power of the Spirit elsewhere. It is dishonest because it does not deal with the entire context. It is cowardly because it accuses someone who is not active here to point to your error.

The fact remains that you cannot accept the passage as it stands without qualification. You condemn Paul for his words to the Romans by pulling another verse from his words to the Corinthians to piece together some sort of doctrine.

You totally mistake the passage and the meaning of the passage there's no other way to say this

 

[Iconoclast]

Squire, thanks for allowing this thread to stsy open for awhile.
Despite a rocky start it actually had some positive dialogue in working through some thorny issues.

 

[Reformed1689]

How about where Jesus says "your faith has saved you?" Luke 7:50

On and on they post one falsehood after another.

What does that have to do with this topic? Who of us never said we were saved by faith?

 

[MB]

What does that have to do with this topic? Who of us never said we were saved by faith?

If you believe Calvinism as it's been preached here that we are saved so that we can believe. Then there is no doubt that you believe you are saved with out faith. MB

 

[kyredneck]

Anybody else?

NOT me! Only the living can exercise faith and 'receive' Him.

 

[Reformed1689]

If you believe Calvinism as it's been preached here that we are saved so that we can believe. Then there is no doubt that you believe you are saved with out faith. MB

I don't know of one person here who preaches that. This is a false accusation.

 

[Reformed1689]

If you believe Calvinism as it's been preached here that we are saved so that we can believe. Then there is no doubt that you believe you are saved with out faith. MB

Again, who of us has ever said we are saved without faith. Name names and posts please. If you are going to make the accusation you better have proof to back it up.

 

[Reformed]

Do you believe that Paul was wrong to say it to the Christians in Rome without the qualification he provides to the Church in Corinth?

Not at all. He wrote to different audiences. However, what he wrote to the Romans is clarified for our benefit in 1 Corinthians.

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[JonC]

Not at all. He wrote to different audiences. However, what he wrote to the Romans is clarified for our benefit in 1 Corinthians.

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I agree, which is why theologically I agree with you. BUT at the same time the common sense you employ here goes out the window with some who cannot handle opposing views.

For example, Flowers says that the gospel is all that is needed, not some special drawing. BUT he also says that the Spirit has worked in the gospel message and in the indwelling of the believer. Why do we take Paul's words to two different audiences together yet divide words by an opposing view?

It is a matter of the heart, not the head.